Shiv cannot be dodged/blocked/parried?

Herb · 05/31/07, 9:28 AM

After about 3000 Shivs against level 70-72 mobs with only hits and crits, I'm beginning to believe the rumor Shiv cannot be dodged; actually, it looks like it cannot be avoided at all - even in a faked duel vs. a protection-heavy warrior (20%ish parry, dodge and block) it only ever hit or crit.

Can anybody find a counterexample?

Melnor · 05/31/07, 10:27 AM

If the rogue in question has the Suprise Attacks talent, it would make Shiv un-dodgeable.
An ideal test would be to have a non combat spec rogue shiv spam another rogue that has evasion running.

• Maestroquark · 05/31/07, 10:33 AM

Originally Posted by Melnor

If the rogue in question has the Suprise Attacks talent, it would make Shiv un-dodgeable.
An ideal test would be to have a non combat spec rogue shiv spam another rogue that has evasion running.

If this is happening, it's a bug, since it's supposed to be finishing moves that are not dodgeable.

castille · 05/31/07, 10:33 AM

Originally Posted by Melnor

If the rogue in question has the Suprise Attacks talent, it would make Shiv un-dodgeable.
An ideal test would be to have a non combat spec rogue shiv spam another rogue that has evasion running.

I'm afraid that's untrue, sir. Surprise Attacks affects Finishing Moves.

Backpain · 05/31/07, 11:22 AM

For what its worth, I shiv through evasion when combating rogues.. The tooltip is a bit ambiguous when it comes to the mechanics of Shiv, and whether or not it can be avoided.

"Performs an instant off-hand weapon attack that automatically applies the poison from your off-hand weapon to the target. Slower weapons require more Energy. Awards 1 combo point."

Key word being "automatically" perhaps?

Tower · 05/31/07, 11:39 AM

I believe this is the function of Shiv (to automatically apply offhand poison) overwriting combat mechanics (avoidance/mitigation). Must be coded that in order for poison to be applied via the offhand weapon, the offhand weapon must connect with it's target.

I honestly hope it's never changed, it's a hefty energy investment to get your target snared (there's still a chance for the application to be resisted) and lowers our ability to toss out burst damage.

Kalman · 05/31/07, 1:12 PM

DSM and I tested this way back in beta and confirmed that Shiv was undodgeable.

Melnor · 05/31/07, 4:37 PM

Originally Posted by castille

I'm afraid that's untrue, sir. Surprise Attacks affects Finishing Moves.

"Your Sinister Strike, Backstab, Shiv and Gouge abilities can no longer be dodged and damage caused by those abilities is increased by 10%"

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/...e/talents.html

I pulled my information from mousing over the talent.

Either Thottbot or the WoW site is wrong. I can't see what it says in game because I'm at work.

Edit: Checked in game and it is Finishing Moves only -- stupid WoW site!

castille · 05/31/07, 4:42 PM

Originally Posted by Melnor

"Your Sinister Strike, Backstab, Shiv and Gouge abilities can no longer be dodged and damage caused by those abilities is increased by 10%"

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/...e/talents.html

I pulled my information from mousing over the talent.

Either Thottbot or the WoW site is wrong. I can't see what it says in game because I'm at work.

That was the original Surprise Attacks talent, changed soon after it was announced (maybe a week or two at most?). I enjoyed the hell out of PvP with that version, though the 'new' one still allows you to KS an evading rogue to slap them around.

gotroot · 05/31/07, 7:36 PM

Pre 2.1, I have had the attack from Shiv miss (I think it was dodged or parried) but the poison still hit my target. I remember seeing the text from SCT and thinking it was odd.

Herb · 06/02/07, 6:24 AM

DSM and I tested this way back in beta and confirmed that Shiv was undodgeable.

What does "DSM" mean? I heard about the undodgeable part, but my sample size has only gotten larger and i still haven't found a single parry yet.

I'll repeat my question: can anybody find a counterexample (proving that Shiv, in fact, can be parried?)

Orinas · 06/02/07, 11:08 AM

Shiv can't be dodged/parriedblocked, but it can miss. Surprise attacks is only finishers.

Cyrithor · 06/02/07, 7:10 PM

Originally Posted by Herb

What does "DSM" mean?

DSM is Diesem, a gnome Rogue.