Druid - Tree Concerns and Issues - Page 14

starcore · 09/27/07, 7:24 AM

Originally Posted by Quantum

While at the topic of the next patch, the priests of this forum already started to discuss the impact of Meditation giving 30% mana regeneration while casting. What about druids? I'm not that often in the tank group, so I'm not a big fan of our aura. And we don't get a personal healing bonus through spirit, so we just can't stack it up like there's no tomorrow, it's just not worth to loose a rather big chunk of +heal. Any thoughts on this?

As implied in my above post with gems etc... in terms of itemization theres pretty much no way i'd stack spirit over mp5/+heal... not to say i wouldn't use an item with more benefit from spirit... its just that generally items of similar level the mp5/+heal will win out every time... especially when you consider scaling on lifebloom compared to the scaling on other classes heals

Freddie · 09/27/07, 7:58 AM

The change does make several items slightly more palatable, though. [Enchanted Leather Sandals] from Anetheron turn into ~7.8mp5, which makes them a smallish upgrade from Leo/FLK boots. [Don Rodrigo's Poncho] turns into ~11mp5, and will actually be an upgrade from my present T4.

Spirit will still be inferior to MP5 itemization cost wise, but not so much that it leads to an instant "well, that item sucks". I still have no idea what they're up to with the spell haste on BT gear though :o

And say hi to Quis/Yachi for me :p

Aciara · 09/27/07, 8:33 AM

Well the problem is that currently lifebloom doesn't cost us much and if you're in a spriest grp and/or are chugging pots you don't really need to stack mp5/spirit as there is just enough on tier pieces or as a rubbish stat anyway. What you have to stack, because there is no other way to drastically improve this stat, is healing. Which is why imho Void Reaver drops the best waist in game, Kazzak the best boots and so on ([Gold-Leaf Wildboots][Girdle of Zaetar] are the ones I mean, but 2x +22 healing in them and they're better than ANYTHING else currently in the Game).

starcore · 09/27/07, 9:23 AM

Originally Posted by Aciara

Well the problem is that currently lifebloom doesn't cost us much and if you're in a spriest grp and/or are chugging pots you don't really need to stack mp5/spirit as there is just enough on tier pieces or as a rubbish stat anyway. What you have to stack, because there is no other way to drastically improve this stat, is healing. Which is why imho Void Reaver drops the best waist in game, Kazzak the best boots and so on ([Gold-Leaf Wildboots][Girdle of Zaetar] are the ones I mean, but 2x +22 healing in them and they're better than ANYTHING else currently in the Game).

you'll find for belt slot primal [Primal Mooncloth Belt] is arguably better than [Girdle of Zaetar] if you can be bothered to pick up tailoring.... infact for a druid the whole set is somewhat OP

Aciara · 09/27/07, 9:30 AM

Yeah that's right, but I'm herbalist/alchemist (with all but 1 flask) so I'm not going to drop that anytime soon. I'm just hoping they'll soon close this glaring hole in our itemization (there is no waist in BT that comes within 40 healing of the tailoring one and no shoes that come within 40healing of the Kazzak ones either).

Playered · 09/27/07, 9:47 AM

Originally Posted by LL

The change does make several items slightly more palatable, though. [Enchanted Leather Sandals] from Anetheron turn into ~7.8mp5, which makes them a smallish upgrade from Leo/FLK boots. [Don Rodrigo's Poncho] turns into ~11mp5, and will actually be an upgrade from my present T4.

Spirit will still be inferior to MP5 itemization cost wise, but not so much that it leads to an instant "well, that item sucks". I still have no idea what they're up to with the spell haste on BT gear though :o

And say hi to Quis/Yachi for me :p

While on a single level MP5 vs Spi, the MP5 will win pretty much always, items with both should pull ahead of items with just one of them pretty clearly.

The only exception I've found is Leggings of Eternity, no matter how much I math they come out strictly superior to T6.
30~ healing 3~ mp5 vs the passive 38~ Spirit value while out of 5sec rule and for innervate purposes (I convert the Spi into MP5 right off the bat), filling all slots with 11/2 gems.

T6 hat should roughly beat [Guise of the Tidal Lurker] now however, despite not being by much.

Oh and if your screwed by not getting the VR belt, you can always take [Belt of Divine Guidance] of which it should atleast break even now, the 2MP5 gain from the bonus spirit vs the yellow gem.

Aciara · 09/27/07, 10:43 AM

I keep reading people stating that they infact socket with 11heal/2mp5 (or 9heal2mp5 or 9heal 4spirit) and I'd like to know why you guys are exactly doing this? Do you have mana problems otherwise? Are some of the upcoming fights that our raid still has to handle (RoS phase3++) that much more to do healingwise?

Playered · 09/27/07, 10:56 AM

My method (aswell as others im sure) of healing is not simply rolling a lifebloom on one or two tanks for 90% of my raiding time, as a result there is more I feel needed than +healing.

Not to mention I always pick-up socket bonuses, because most tend to be blue sockets and bonuses giving +healing anyway.

If I was to turn into a LB bot for my entire raiding time then I would no-doubt pimp my +healing over all else.

Doing a 12min council first kill without a SP was not pretty (rogue tank + raid healing [8 healers total]), especially considering almost all the raid damage people take is in 4-6k spikes, so a LB is not enough.

starcore · 09/27/07, 11:43 AM

Originally Posted by Aciara

I keep reading people stating that they infact socket with 11heal/2mp5 (or 9heal2mp5 or 9heal 4spirit) and I'd like to know why you guys are exactly doing this? Do you have mana problems otherwise? Are some of the upcoming fights that our raid still has to handle (RoS phase3++) that much more to do healingwise?

Please correct me if i mess up any of the math its pretty late here...

As a rough guide examine the mana cost of even a fairly basic scenario where you are stacking 2 tanks with LB and rejuv for a 10 minute fight.

That's a mana drain of around 575 per 5.

Even fully buffed with consumables (including mana pots) we're still about 375 mp5 negative
a shadow priest (approximating from an average fight in my guild) will in a 10 minute fight net about an additional 160 mp5 (also assuming our innervate went to that shadow priest).

That still leaves us to make up about 215mp5 for this to be sustainable indefinitely
thus with an 8k mana pool we would need about 149mp5 un-buffed... but keep in mind this is with no raid heals.

As for raid heals:

Each individual cast of regrowth requires you to have an additional 5.6mp5 for the duration of the fight.

Each individual cast of rejuv requires you to have an additional 2.7mp5 for the duration of the fight.

Each individual cast of lifebloom requires you to have an additional 1.5mp5 for the duration of the fight.

So yeah, it kinda adds up.

Aciara · 09/27/07, 12:20 PM

Originally Posted by starcore

Please correct me if i mess up any of the math its pretty late here...

as a rough guide examine the mana cost of even a fairly basic scenario where you are stacking 2 tanks with LB and rejuv for a 10 minute fight

thats a mana drain of around 575 per 5

even fully buffed with consumables (including mana pots) we're still about 375 mp5 negative
a shadow priest (approximating from an average fight in my guild) will in a 10 minute fight net about an additional 160 mp5 (also assuming our innervate went to that shadow priest)

that still leaves us to make up about 215mp5 for this to be sustainable indefinitely
thus with an 8k mana pool we would need about 149mp5 unbuffed... but keep in mind this is with no raid heals.

As for raid heals:

Each individual cast of regrowth requires you to have an additional 5.6mp5 for the duration of the fight

Each individual cast of rejuv requires you to have an additional 2.7mp5 for the duration of the fight

Each individual cast of lifebloom requires you to have an additional 1.5mp5 for the duration of the fight

so yeah, it kinda adds up

First of all thanks for the maths it's really nice to see it like that

The thing is for me at least normally the fights only have 1 MT who I have to heal + lifeblooms on the raid. Or fights (like the Mt Hyjal trash for instance) where I just hit lifebloom every single GCD when I'm not on decursing duty. The thing is I'm currently planning my equipment like this (i.e. spamming +22 heal gems everywhere I can) as we normally have 2 trees in our raids. Currently I have ~140-150 mp5 unbuffed and on very mana intensive fights I get a spriest (who then gets my innervate ;( ) and on some fights I can use my trinkets beforehand and exchange in that bangle trinket with a chance to get more manareg infight + spirit use (sorry can't use thott/wowhead here) and last but not least with the upcoming spirit infight manareg changes (instead of 15% 3 points will alow 30% of your out of 5 sec rule regen to happen inside those 5 seconds) I just want to make sure my gemming choice is viable and can be sustained (currently there is no fight too long for my manapool and only Illidan sounds like it would be long enough to fully drain me).

Lord BEEF · 09/27/07, 1:51 PM

Originally Posted by Aciara

I keep reading people stating that they infact socket with 11heal/2mp5 (or 9heal2mp5 or 9heal 4spirit) and I'd like to know why you guys are exactly doing this? Do you have mana problems otherwise? Are some of the upcoming fights that our raid still has to handle (RoS phase3++) that much more to do healingwise?

I chug quite a few potions on council but it's not terribly more mana intensive. The reason I go for the Royal type gems is because most sockets on druid gear are blue and the socket bonuses are worthwhile, and the spinels are devoured quickly by mages, warlocks, rogues, hunters, and feral druids.

Using lots of the +22 healing gems would probably work out fine, especially with the upcoming intensity change. You really just have to be able to pry them from the dps classes

Footspeedy · 09/28/07, 8:30 PM

I have recently rerolled from a mage to a resto druid, and have been healing all of hyjal/bt for ~2ishmonths now. I find that +22 healing gems are infact the best gems, however i use none of them because like beef said, none of the druid sockets (besides naj helm) have red sockets, and almost all of the gear has blue sockets, so wherever i can get the socket bonus and my 2 yellow gems for my meta I just socket them normally. I normally don't have any mana issues on any fights(besides gurtogg), and i NEVER have a shadow priest, however i do love my alchemist stone =).

Logros · 09/28/07, 10:01 PM

The socket bonuses don't make up for the + healing of 22s, and if you're not taxed for mana, the regen is completely wasted. I'm rarely flasking, and never pushing mana pot cooldowns; even on council I'm only using 2-3. I prefer healing power elixirs on almost every fight, and I socket exclusively with 22s. I keep 1 yellow to activate the 26heal meta.

If mana is an issue I rejuv less, my bigger lifeblooms are far more useful, far more efficient. NS Regrowths replace swiftmends if necessary, although I easily keep rejuv's up on any targets I may need to swiftmend, and more most of the time.

If I socketed for bonuses I'd have way, way too much mana regen. I just recently dropped below 150 regen and dropped a bit of spirit, and I'm still not using pot cooldowns enough.

Besides, Blizzard just isn't making many fights anymore where we have to pinch mana pennies. It's all about power now, not endurance.

Playered · 09/28/07, 11:13 PM

Things are easier for Alchemists I guess...

But in the end of the day it depends how you heal and what your guild has you healing most often.

Lifebloom rolls on tanks = high heal, low regen.
Raid healing generaly = lower heal, higher regen.

Even with a SP and pots I can quite often drain my mana fairly quickly depending how agressive my healing is.

Fights like Kaz, Az in MH I really have no need for a SP or pots as all I do is lifebloom, others like Teron, Naj'entus... especially Council my mana goes down quite quickly if im not careful.

Kretschmer · 09/29/07, 1:06 AM

Any tips for a newly-floral druid? I've been dreamstate healing for Kara and Gruul's (and doing quite well for myself), but respecced heavy restoration for 2v2 arenas and some PvE experimenting. Today I healed a heroic in treeform, and was impressed. Previous heroic tree healing was done before lifebloom stacking, and I've gained about 200-300 healing since then. My biggest concern was spike damage (how do you heal through spikey fights with HoTs? Do you give up on being a primary healer and just go into a HoT rotation?) and mana usage. Compared to carefully-chosen precast/cancelled HTs, the HoTs were causing my mana usage to drop like a rock. The switch away from dreamstate also carved away ~45 mp5, exacerbating the issue. Any tips?

Armory here:

The Armory