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Old 11/30/07, 1:05 PM   #351
Noressa
Druish Princess
 
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Noressa
Tauren Druid
 
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Confirmed mechanic change:
WoW-Europe.com Forums -> 2.3.2 PTR Patch Notes
Druids

* Lifebloom: When this ability is refreshed it will take on the strength of the incoming Lifebloom effect, rather than maintain the existing strength.

This doesn't look like it will effect trinket selection though, other then Memento actually looks like something to pick up, whereas before I would have passed to other healing classes first. From the healing trinket selection discussion (Moshne provided the equation):


Essence of the Martyr: 84 +heal passive
297 for 20 seconds every 2 minutes = 49.5 passive, if you click at the point of cooldown, each time its up.

Tome of Diabolic Remedy: 18mana/5, +heal equivalent= 66

The formula for the trinket +heal on clicks is (D/C)*H where
D=duration (seconds)
C=Cooldown (in seconds)
H=+heal amount

So, between the arena trinket (+88 passive healing) and the tome I'll be losing a passive +22 +heal from the tome, but with a gain of 18 constant mana/5. This also isn't including the bonus stacking from the lifebloom mechanic, just the straight +heal to second activated trinket equation. I lose 4 healing from the lower city prayerbook, but the mana/5 difference is still large enough to use the tome over that trinket as well.

Last edited by Noressa : 11/30/07 at 4:51 PM.

Originally Posted by tiberion02 View Post
Guess I'm one of the girls

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Old 11/30/07, 6:06 PM   #352
Pyros
Bald Bull
 
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Undead Death Knight
 
Twisting Nether (EU)
Originally Posted by tritus View Post
I'm aware, I just hate feeling obligated to get those 5 heals in, plus the WWS of when I did try it saw me getting nearly the exact benefit of rejuv gem mana-wise.
5spells in 15secs is easily the norm, unless it's a very basic spank and tank fight. I usually keep lifeblooms on at least 2 persons at any time, so that's 4spells in 15secs already. Cast another lifebloom or a rejuv inbetween, and you have your 5spells. On most boss fights where there's adds or environnemental damage, I find myself almost chain casting lifeblooms on people, either to keep them rolling or just to top them off. I'm planning to do that SL or sethekk run to get the last 1k of rep for the book asap once they patch(or before). Currently I'll stay with my crappy oshungun relic and martyr.

That's considering I probably can't get the Tome anytime soon, because I somehow never get invited to ZA runs, if I could get it, I'd be using it over the prayer book, and martyr as secondary.

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Old 11/30/07, 9:40 PM   #353
Whitemane
King Hippo
 
Orc Hunter
 
Tarren Mill (EU)
I've "tolerated" clicky heal effects because of how lifebloom worked, I doubt I'll really count the +heal clickys for much. I always forget to use them and the benefit of them in most situations are quite debatable. LCPB is much better, since you can just click it and get the benefit out of it without regard to anything really - as long as you keep casting of course. What I look for in trinkets is something that can help me, consistently, and not something once in a while if I remember it kind of thing. It shortens the list down to a few things now:

Memento, Martyr's and LCPB are the best choices after 2.3.2 or what? Lets you stack some +heal and that is always good as a tree.

If you always use your innervate on yourself, isn't the bangle better than the tome? It gives you approximately 1600 extra mana from the click effect over a 6 minute CD (innervate) period, which is roughly 22 mp5. Then you have the extra regen, which isn't all that much though, of the clicky and proc effect ... but it does give it an extra notch. Like I explained previously, I'm mostly biased to simply ignore the clicky +heal effects. At best I'd just arbitrarily click them in most fights.

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Old 11/30/07, 10:41 PM   #354
Makaio
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Lethon
I bind my Essence of the Martyr to Rejuv and LCPB to Lifebloom. Check around these forums for the macro that suppresses errors.

It's not a perfect usage for them, but it keeps them up as much as possible with very little thinking.

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Old 11/30/07, 11:51 PM   #355
giansm
Bald Bull
 
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Night Elf Druid
 
Proudmoore
Originally Posted by Pyxis View Post
Tome should in theory be better than either though should it not? 18mp5 and 396 for say 25s out of every 2 mins for an average of ~82.5 healing.
I don't really think the value of 82.5 passive healing is the same as the value of having 396 healing 21% of the time and zero healing 79% of the time. Healing isn't DPS, and it actually matters that sometimes you have zero and sometimes you have 396.

For an example of the way I think about it, imagine two trinkets that you must choose between: one with +80 healing and one with a clicky effect that grants +400 healing 20% of the time. The math suggests that in the long run both trinkets provide the same amount of average healing, but depending on the situation one or the other may be better. Consider a few scenarios:
  • You are healing a group of 2-4 people through steady damage using hots. This could be a bloodboil group, tanks on Hyjal trash, anything. If you choose the clicky trinket and are capable of keeping these people up when the buff is inactive, then activating the trinket will just be massive overhealing. If you're slightly losing ground with the buff inactive, but fairly slowly and you can recover it next time you activate the buff, then going with the passive trinket means you never lose ground at all and generally makes your targets more stable.
  • You are healing a main tank and keeping up full hots. Here your job is mostly to stabilize his health, and an important part of this is that you want your hots to tick a couple of times during a damage spike to smooth it out. It's best for the other healers involved if your healing is steady and predictable, meaning the passive trinket is the better choice.
  • You are on an encounter where there are intermittent "crisis periods." Using clicky trinkets at these times can ease the load on other healers; for example, you can buff your hots on the Naj'entus tank to allow other healers to focus on the raid in the critical few seconds before a shield goes up. If these crisis periods are far enough apart that you can use a trinket during most of them then a clicky trinket may be the best choice. It makes sense on Naj'entus because the 1 minute timer allows for a trinket activation each time, but it doesn't make sense on Azgalor since you can only cover a third of the silences, and in the other two thirds you are stuck with +0 healing.

Anyway to answer your question, I think that #1 and #2 are more common situations and so most of the time, the Prayerbook will be better than the Tome due to the superiority of passive healing. The Tome however will still shine in situation #3. Rarely, however, do I think that trinkets can be compared purely on the basis of average long-term healing.

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Old 12/01/07, 3:08 AM   #356
ya$ub
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Warrior
 
Mal'Ganis
o nm

Last edited by ya$ub : 12/01/07 at 4:29 AM.

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Old 12/01/07, 3:23 AM   #357
Playered
Soda Popinski
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Twisting Nether (EU)
Originally Posted by ya$ub View Post
Irregardless, herein I offer something to the community in trade that I might receive something to my own benefit. The Lifebloom coefficient seems to have been nerfed approximately -8% per tick since Season 3 began. It's entirely possible that I've overlooked something obvious but the personal data I have supports this fact.

.
Nothing seems to of changed for me, 2113 healing = 257/tick (/w Idol), the Idol also gives the same amount per tick as before (+7).

Have you changed some gear since S3? and perhaps show your data thats making you think this?

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Old 12/01/07, 8:18 PM   #358
Kamileon
Von Kaiser
 
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Draenei Shaman
 
Cenarion Circle
I haven't been trinketing my LBs, so the only thing this changes for me is not trying to cram more badges into my busy schedule. I've been doing Rejuv Gem + Scarab of Infinite because both have passive heal. And feeling really silly whenever the scarab procced.

I'll probably toss Scarab and buy a LCPB at this point -- I was holding off on the theory that the passive is the same as the Scarab, and I was getting EoTM.

I don't typically need extra mana from regen trinkets, but I do swap the Scarab for Bangle when I want to be sure about mana. (Kaz'rogal.) I yoinked my blue dragon out of the bank to do tests, but I don't think I will roll with it.

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Old 12/02/07, 4:03 AM   #359
Playered
Soda Popinski
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Twisting Nether (EU)
Originally Posted by Kamileon View Post
I haven't been trinketing my LBs, so the only thing this changes for me is not trying to cram more badges into my busy schedule. I've been doing Rejuv Gem + Scarab of Infinite because both have passive heal. And feeling really silly whenever the scarab procced.

I'll probably toss Scarab and buy a LCPB at this point -- I was holding off on the theory that the passive is the same as the Scarab, and I was getting EoTM.

I don't typically need extra mana from regen trinkets, but I do swap the Scarab for Bangle when I want to be sure about mana. (Kaz'rogal.) I yoinked my blue dragon out of the bank to do tests, but I don't think I will roll with it.
LCPB is really nice, especially if you bind it to your LB or so key, theres no reason not to buy it especially if your using Scarab which honestly seems pointless.

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Old 12/02/07, 11:54 AM   #360
Reachie
Piston Honda
 
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Human Priest
 
Tichondrius
For anyone who's really progressing far into BT/Hyjal.

(We're 5/5, 9/9) and farming Hyjal only for the tank sword, and farming BT for illidan.

Do you feel like your being less effective?

Over the past weeks I've seen my effective healing drop a lot, and I think it's due to the fact that our other healers are getting such good gear, that my hots are basically useless on most fights. (Only fight I win healing meters is Illidari Council, that's because I heal Gathios the Shatterer, and his spike damage, and sustained DPS is real high on the tank, so my hots are great their, but still chain chugging mana pots and usually getting 3 innervates sometimes 4 (my innervate x2, and our feral druids innervate x2) I'm still marginally winning to CoH priests, or our pally who solo heals the priest side with 4-5 people over there.

Maybe I'm just being self-confident, but anyone else feeling a little uneasy? Nerf to lifebloom stacking doesn't help ease my worries either

Healing is like music. The magic doesn't lie in the notes, but in the space in between.

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Old 12/02/07, 5:09 PM   #361
Kamileon
Von Kaiser
 
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Draenei Shaman
 
Cenarion Circle
I dunno, in my mind my HoTs are for tank insurance first, and phat effective healing second. The other healers getting really well geared up shouldn't have too much impact on how the constant ticking of HoTs on the tank is going to mop up a lot of the incoming damage before direct heals land, even with cast-cancelling. Either they're getting really lucky and landing heals inbetween your HoT ticks, or now they're able to direct heal the tank up to full, and weren't before? It sounds like something else is afoot, because at the same time, you should be getting better gear, so your HoTs tick larger and leave less deficit for direct healing.

I'm also curious what you're casting most of the time, if you need that many pots and innervates. I'm 4/5, and 4/9 so I haven't seen the same late boss content, but my gear isn't even that great and I have 0 mana problems after 2.3.

Now, if you're raid healing and watching your effective healing done drop, then healing assignments need to be worked out, and other raid healers need to be conscious of HoTs on people who are not having health emergencies.

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Old 12/02/07, 5:16 PM   #362
MOO
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Ahn'Qiraj (EU)
Originally Posted by Reachie View Post
For anyone who's really progressing far into BT/Hyjal.

(We're 5/5, 9/9) and farming Hyjal only for the tank sword, and farming BT for illidan.

Do you feel like your being less effective?

Over the past weeks I've seen my effective healing drop a lot, and I think it's due to the fact that our other healers are getting such good gear, that my hots are basically useless on most fights. (Only fight I win healing meters is Illidari Council, that's because I heal Gathios the Shatterer, and his spike damage, and sustained DPS is real high on the tank, so my hots are great their, but still chain chugging mana pots and usually getting 3 innervates sometimes 4 (my innervate x2, and our feral druids innervate x2) I'm still marginally winning to CoH priests, or our pally who solo heals the priest side with 4-5 people over there.

Maybe I'm just being self-confident, but anyone else feeling a little uneasy? Nerf to lifebloom stacking doesn't help ease my worries either
I agree, but how do you chunk down all that mana - 4 innervates and chain potting is just insane. I normally also heal Gathios the Shatterer and top meters using one innervate and a couple of pots. Do you spam regrowth?

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Old 12/02/07, 10:00 PM   #363
rawrz
Casually Serious
 
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Night Elf Druid
 
Lightbringer
Originally Posted by Reachie View Post
For anyone who's really progressing far into BT/Hyjal.

(We're 5/5, 9/9) and farming Hyjal only for the tank sword, and farming BT for illidan.

Do you feel like your being less effective?

Over the past weeks I've seen my effective healing drop a lot, and I think it's due to the fact that our other healers are getting such good gear, that my hots are basically useless on most fights. (Only fight I win healing meters is Illidari Council, that's because I heal Gathios the Shatterer, and his spike damage, and sustained DPS is real high on the tank, so my hots are great their, but still chain chugging mana pots and usually getting 3 innervates sometimes 4 (my innervate x2, and our feral druids innervate x2) I'm still marginally winning to CoH priests, or our pally who solo heals the priest side with 4-5 people over there.

Maybe I'm just being self-confident, but anyone else feeling a little uneasy? Nerf to lifebloom stacking doesn't help ease my worries either
You will see your effective healing drop, as time goes on. As healers with direct heals feel more comfortable with the fight, and are more familiar with the "shape" of incoming damage, they respond to spikes quicker or even anticipate them, and are able to find the time to keep the tank topped off. In addition, your tank will have more gear and experience, meaning that he'll take less damage overall in addition to being spiked less. This all means that our hots will have less opportunity to tick.

I don't understand how you can be using up so much mana - without seeing your WWS, the most likely culprit to low effective healing, low mana efficiency lifeblooming druid (if you spam regrowth, then that's another story entirely), is that you are letting your lifeblooms drop. Not only are you using extra mana to rebuild your stacks, you are also losing out on lifebloom ticks, especially if you had trinketed ones.

For council, I usually keep lifebloom stacks on both the Gathios tank and the Malande tank. In addition, I keep a rejuv going on the Gathios tank, and swiftmend as necessary. Hots essentially negate some of the DPS output from bosses with HPS, so we take immense pressure off other healers; they have to worry less about keeping up with incoming damage and more about damage spikes.

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Old 12/02/07, 10:41 PM   #364
Lord BEEF
Soda Popinski
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Mal'Ganis
It sounds like you're casting heals on people who don't need it because the other healers have it covered. You don't have to lifebloom everyone who's missing 200 health.

Heal your assignments, throw a few extra lifeblooms if you think it'll help, and stop worrying about effective healing. You'll likely be top when the content is "hard" and once mastered, you drop a few slots. As Implicit pointed out, you start off not being able to anticipate all damage so you having a raid coated in hots will get you high on effective healing. Once you master the content your direct healers will know when someone is going to take damage, how much they're going to take, and will often have a heal landing almost immediately after the damage. Your hots won't do anything then, it's fine.

I mean with 3 innervates and chugging potions, assuming a 10 minute fight, you're going through somewhere in the ballpark of 50,000 - 70,000 mana. You don't need 50,000 mana for council, you just don't.

There are lots of times in raiding where I'll see someone take damage but it's one off type of damage, not a continued stream and I know that he'll get a flash of light and be fine so I just won't cast anything. If your other healers are competant (and if you're farming Illidan I'm going to assume they are) you just need to let them do their jobs while you do yours.

Check out my friend's bitchin' Lord of the Rings Art

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Old 12/03/07, 3:46 PM   #365
Pyxis
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Druid
 
Hyjal
Originally Posted by Reachie View Post
For anyone who's really progressing far into BT/Hyjal.

(We're 5/5, 9/9) and farming Hyjal only for the tank sword, and farming BT for illidan.

Do you feel like your being less effective?

Over the past weeks I've seen my effective healing drop a lot, and I think it's due to the fact that our other healers are getting such good gear, that my hots are basically useless on most fights. (Only fight I win healing meters is Illidari Council, that's because I heal Gathios the Shatterer, and his spike damage, and sustained DPS is real high on the tank, so my hots are great their, but still chain chugging mana pots and usually getting 3 innervates sometimes 4 (my innervate x2, and our feral druids innervate x2) I'm still marginally winning to CoH priests, or our pally who solo heals the priest side with 4-5 people over there.

Maybe I'm just being self-confident, but anyone else feeling a little uneasy? Nerf to lifebloom stacking doesn't help ease my worries either
It also depends really heavily on how your guild uses you. In my guild, I probably make use of our restos pretty optimally, even at the expense of our paladins to some extent. For example on council, we have 2 druids who roll HoTs on the rogue, mage and priest tanks while leaving the paladin tank for the paladins to heal. It works for us, and our effective healing is off the charts high but that's more the assignment than anything else. It's funny though, with 2 druids rolling HoTs across the three tanks our healing is pretty darn high, if we only have 1 druid for a night, their effective healing absolutely skyrockets. That means that normally we're ninjaing a fair chunk of healing from each other with 2 druids in the raid.

One other thing I've noticed is that our tanks are getting pretty confident with the fact that they're going to have at least 2 LB stacks on them, pretty much at all times, and are worrying less about spike damage. They've been dropping some of the stam / mitigation for avoidance lately which is reducing everyone's overall healing numbers. Having our MT wear avoidance gear on Mother Shahraz cut the overall incoming damage across all three tanks pretty significantly.

Of course we don't have any CoH priests yet, because we only run with 1-2 shadow priests and our healers traditionally don't get either of them so our druids aren't "competing" with them.

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Old 12/03/07, 8:47 PM   #366
Pyros
Bald Bull
 
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Undead Death Knight
 
Twisting Nether (EU)
Given I'm still on T5 level, but I've found that, unless I'm assigned to something stupid like topping the raid off with a paladin, I will usually beat everyone else on heals, at a minimal mana cost. I'm in mt group, without any kind of mana regen, and I still manage most fights with only my own innervate and no potions. Now the one guy that will often outheal me on certain fight is the CoH priest. Every boss that has everyone stacked on top of each other and taking raid damage often, he will destroy me easily because coh is so efficient to top people health. Morogrim does an earthquake, he can heal up the whole raid to full with only 5 gcd. I somewhat wish I could do that ^^.

But really, I'm not too worried when my own healing is lower than other people, it only means the tanks weren't taking as much damage as usual. And I haven't been assigned to anything but MT healing for some time now, because our MT really like the spike prevention a perma lifebloom+rejuv brings. I could be healing for half of what other healers heal, as long as I'm preventing the tank from dieing to spikes, I'd be happy.

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Old 12/07/07, 7:39 PM   #367
forrestdogg
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Tanaris
LC Prayerbook Macro

Originally Posted by Lorewanderer View Post
Just because it didn't seem to be in the thread:

#showtooltip Lifebloom
/use Lower City Prayerbook
/cast [modifier:shift, target=mouseover, help, exists] [help] [target=targettarget, help][target=Focus, help][target=mouseover, help, exists][target=player] Lifebloom
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear()



Uses the prayerbook whenever it is up, doesn't spam you with not ready messages.

The shift-to mouseover is because I have a nostromo state for grid mouseover healing for the days I'm not waring a chicken suit.

Logros: Since you're rarely using pots, even without the clicky the LCPB would be better. Passive +70 heal isn't bad by any means. The clicky just makes it better.
I really like it and in the long run not having to click my LC prayerbook will save me a lot of mana. My question is how can i adjust the macro so that i can cast LB on anyone i mouseover not just the target selected. I previously had a mouseover LB macro. Tried this one and it took half a fight to realize that every time i clicked it was just refreshing the LB on my tank and not casting on people that i was mousing over.

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Old 12/08/07, 4:53 PM   #368
Brick
Von Kaiser
 
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Blood Elf Paladin
 
Eldre'Thalas
Originally Posted by forrestdogg View Post
I really like it and in the long run not having to click my LC prayerbook will save me a lot of mana. My question is how can i adjust the macro so that i can cast LB on anyone i mouseover not just the target selected. I previously had a mouseover LB macro. Tried this one and it took half a fight to realize that every time i clicked it was just refreshing the LB on my tank and not casting on people that i was mousing over.
Here's my Lifebloom Macro:

#showtooltip
#show Lifebloom
/cast [target=mouseover,help][target=player,button:2][target=player,modifier:alt][]Lifebloom

The macro does this...

"Am I moused over a friendly target (or their unit frame)? If I am, cast Lifebloom on them."
"OK, I'm not moused over a friendly target, and I right-clicked the button. OK. Lifebloom myself."
"OK, I'm not moused over a friendly target, the button wasn't right-clicked, but I held down ALT in addition to the key this is bound to on my action bar. Alright, Lifebloom myself."
"Ok, none of the previous conditions are met. Just Lifebloom my current target."

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Old 12/08/07, 10:04 PM   #369
 Lorewanderer
Moof.
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Mal'Ganis
If you want to have it default to mouseover casting, use:

#showtooltip Lifebloom
/use Lower City Prayerbook
/cast [target=mouseover, help, exists][help][target=targettarget, help][target=Focus, help][target=player] Lifebloom
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear()

It will cast in order of priority, on your friendly mouseover target (player model or unitframe), the player you have targeted, the player a mob has targeted, your focus, then yourself.

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Old 12/09/07, 10:31 AM   #370
Reachie
Piston Honda
 
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Human Priest
 
Tichondrius
I don't have any WWS atm as our last two kills have been executed really well, and I think I used my own innervate and that's it.

Most of the time when I use that much mana, the raid damage on that side is extremely high, and it usually involves me using regrowths on most of the raid while keeping hots and swiftmending almost everyone cooldown on the Shatter tank :P.

I annoys me Pyxis because our raid leader's a paladin, and he has a hard-on for CoH Priests and Pallys himself, so we're kinda left in the back to do the "other" jobs those 2 classes don't need to do.

It's not a huge deal that my effective healing is lowered, it's just depressing due to how it used to be.

Oh well.

Healing is like music. The magic doesn't lie in the notes, but in the space in between.

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Old 12/11/07, 8:33 AM   #371
Anaram
Don Flamenco
 
Tauren Druid
 
Lightning's Blade (EU)
I'd say clicky-healing trinkets are best macroed to go along with nature's swiftness and/or swiftmend, not to be clicked whenever they are off cooldown. You have pretty good odds that the "correct" casting time is when using an emergency heal. For extreme-edge healing this is probably still best if you can sustain mana between mana potions and innervate. If you need to cast innervate on someone else (heavy-duty CoH/shadow priest most likely) then things might be different.

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Old 12/12/07, 11:59 AM   #372
Nezralix
Bald Bull
 
Orc Warrior
 
Burning Blade
Could someone elaborate a bit on how tree healing works in an average heroic instance? I know I've been in some situations where I basically had to chain-cast Holy Light on tanks while healing on my paladin, and I can't imagine that those levels of healing throughput are easily attainable (if at all) with tree spells alone. Is it common to shift into a HT-spam mode? Or does this tend to become a non-issue once your healing gear passes a certain point?

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Old 12/12/07, 12:16 PM   #373
Noressa
Druish Princess
 
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Noressa
Tauren Druid
 
No WoW Account
It's really about lifebloom and keeping the stack up on your tank. It's a steady influx of healing (600 hp/s is fairly easy to attain). It's up to the dps to be smart and not pull aggro if you have no cooldowns available (15 seconds for swiftmend, 3 minutes for NS.) Breaking out into cast/cancel is a bad idea for a tree because our mana efficiency goes down and most of us haven't specced into any HT helping talents, it's all about maximizing our HOT's. Since we can roll lifeblooms on up to 4 targets, if you know what's coming you can get your healing started early on people who need it. It's more about steady, anticipated healing with good tools to handle burst/unexpected damage.

Originally Posted by tiberion02 View Post
Guess I'm one of the girls

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Old 12/12/07, 2:59 PM   #374
Norfair
Piston Honda
 
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Night Elf Druid
 
Grim Batol (EU)
To be honest in heroics I still use HT a lot. It's still the best hps on a single target, so for those hard-hitting bosses / mobs it's excellent. For random AoE dmg I use HoTs on dps and if they happen to pull aggro I resort to Regrowth.


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Old 12/13/07, 6:15 AM   #375
the_mort
Von Kaiser
 
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Worgen Warlock
 
Alleria (EU)
I heal heroics completely as tree. Lifebloom is enough most of the time to keep everyone and the tank alive. You can add Rejuvination for more HPS and throw in a Regrowth if things look dire.

Most of the time Lifebloom makes up 90-95% of my overall healing in heroics according to Recount.

"Progress just means bad things happen faster." -- Granny Weatherwax

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