The change does make several items slightly more palatable, though. [Enchanted Leather Sandals] from Anetheron turn into ~7.8mp5, which makes them a smallish upgrade from Leo/FLK boots. [Don Rodrigo's Poncho] turns into ~11mp5, and will actually be an upgrade from my present T4.
Spirit will still be inferior to MP5 itemization cost wise, but not so much that it leads to an instant "well, that item sucks". I still have no idea what they're up to with the spell haste on BT gear though :o
And say hi to Quis/Yachi for me :p
While on a single level MP5 vs Spi, the MP5 will win pretty much always, items with both should pull ahead of items with just one of them pretty clearly.
The only exception I've found is Leggings of Eternity, no matter how much I math they come out strictly superior to T6.
30~ healing 3~ mp5 vs the passive 38~ Spirit value while out of 5sec rule and for innervate purposes (I convert the Spi into MP5 right off the bat), filling all slots with 11/2 gems.
Oh and if your screwed by not getting the VR belt, you can always take [Belt of Divine Guidance] of which it should atleast break even now, the 2MP5 gain from the bonus spirit vs the yellow gem.
I keep reading people stating that they infact socket with 11heal/2mp5 (or 9heal2mp5 or 9heal 4spirit) and I'd like to know why you guys are exactly doing this? Do you have mana problems otherwise? Are some of the upcoming fights that our raid still has to handle (RoS phase3++) that much more to do healingwise?
My method (aswell as others im sure) of healing is not simply rolling a lifebloom on one or two tanks for 90% of my raiding time, as a result there is more I feel needed than +healing.
Not to mention I always pick-up socket bonuses, because most tend to be blue sockets and bonuses giving +healing anyway.
If I was to turn into a LB bot for my entire raiding time then I would no-doubt pimp my +healing over all else.
Doing a 12min council first kill without a SP was not pretty (rogue tank + raid healing [8 healers total]), especially considering almost all the raid damage people take is in 4-6k spikes, so a LB is not enough.
I keep reading people stating that they infact socket with 11heal/2mp5 (or 9heal2mp5 or 9heal 4spirit) and I'd like to know why you guys are exactly doing this? Do you have mana problems otherwise? Are some of the upcoming fights that our raid still has to handle (RoS phase3++) that much more to do healingwise?
Please correct me if i mess up any of the math its pretty late here...
As a rough guide examine the mana cost of even a fairly basic scenario where you are stacking 2 tanks with LB and rejuv for a 10 minute fight.
That's a mana drain of around 575 per 5.
Even fully buffed with consumables (including mana pots) we're still about 375 mp5 negative
a shadow priest (approximating from an average fight in my guild) will in a 10 minute fight net about an additional 160 mp5 (also assuming our innervate went to that shadow priest).
That still leaves us to make up about 215mp5 for this to be sustainable indefinitely
thus with an 8k mana pool we would need about 149mp5 un-buffed... but keep in mind this is with no raid heals.
As for raid heals:
Each individual cast of regrowth requires you to have an additional 5.6mp5 for the duration of the fight.
Each individual cast of rejuv requires you to have an additional 2.7mp5 for the duration of the fight.
Each individual cast of lifebloom requires you to have an additional 1.5mp5 for the duration of the fight.
So yeah, it kinda adds up.
Last edited by starcore : 10/01/07 at 9:47 PM.
Reason: Hiding from grammar nazi
Please correct me if i mess up any of the math its pretty late here...
as a rough guide examine the mana cost of even a fairly basic scenario where you are stacking 2 tanks with LB and rejuv for a 10 minute fight
thats a mana drain of around 575 per 5
even fully buffed with consumables (including mana pots) we're still about 375 mp5 negative
a shadow priest (approximating from an average fight in my guild) will in a 10 minute fight net about an additional 160 mp5 (also assuming our innervate went to that shadow priest)
that still leaves us to make up about 215mp5 for this to be sustainable indefinitely
thus with an 8k mana pool we would need about 149mp5 unbuffed... but keep in mind this is with no raid heals.
As for raid heals:
Each individual cast of regrowth requires you to have an additional 5.6mp5 for the duration of the fight
Each individual cast of rejuv requires you to have an additional 2.7mp5 for the duration of the fight
Each individual cast of lifebloom requires you to have an additional 1.5mp5 for the duration of the fight
so yeah, it kinda adds up
First of all thanks for the maths it's really nice to see it like that The thing is for me at least normally the fights only have 1 MT who I have to heal + lifeblooms on the raid. Or fights (like the Mt Hyjal trash for instance) where I just hit lifebloom every single GCD when I'm not on decursing duty. The thing is I'm currently planning my equipment like this (i.e. spamming +22 heal gems everywhere I can) as we normally have 2 trees in our raids. Currently I have ~140-150 mp5 unbuffed and on very mana intensive fights I get a spriest (who then gets my innervate ;( ) and on some fights I can use my trinkets beforehand and exchange in that bangle trinket with a chance to get more manareg infight + spirit use (sorry can't use thott/wowhead here) and last but not least with the upcoming spirit infight manareg changes (instead of 15% 3 points will alow 30% of your out of 5 sec rule regen to happen inside those 5 seconds) I just want to make sure my gemming choice is viable and can be sustained (currently there is no fight too long for my manapool and only Illidan sounds like it would be long enough to fully drain me).
I keep reading people stating that they infact socket with 11heal/2mp5 (or 9heal2mp5 or 9heal 4spirit) and I'd like to know why you guys are exactly doing this? Do you have mana problems otherwise? Are some of the upcoming fights that our raid still has to handle (RoS phase3++) that much more to do healingwise?
I chug quite a few potions on council but it's not terribly more mana intensive. The reason I go for the Royal type gems is because most sockets on druid gear are blue and the socket bonuses are worthwhile, and the spinels are devoured quickly by mages, warlocks, rogues, hunters, and feral druids.
Using lots of the +22 healing gems would probably work out fine, especially with the upcoming intensity change. You really just have to be able to pry them from the dps classes
I have recently rerolled from a mage to a resto druid, and have been healing all of hyjal/bt for ~2ishmonths now. I find that +22 healing gems are infact the best gems, however i use none of them because like beef said, none of the druid sockets (besides naj helm) have red sockets, and almost all of the gear has blue sockets, so wherever i can get the socket bonus and my 2 yellow gems for my meta I just socket them normally. I normally don't have any mana issues on any fights(besides gurtogg), and i NEVER have a shadow priest, however i do love my alchemist stone =).
The socket bonuses don't make up for the + healing of 22s, and if you're not taxed for mana, the regen is completely wasted. I'm rarely flasking, and never pushing mana pot cooldowns; even on council I'm only using 2-3. I prefer healing power elixirs on almost every fight, and I socket exclusively with 22s. I keep 1 yellow to activate the 26heal meta.
If mana is an issue I rejuv less, my bigger lifeblooms are far more useful, far more efficient. NS Regrowths replace swiftmends if necessary, although I easily keep rejuv's up on any targets I may need to swiftmend, and more most of the time.
If I socketed for bonuses I'd have way, way too much mana regen. I just recently dropped below 150 regen and dropped a bit of spirit, and I'm still not using pot cooldowns enough.
Besides, Blizzard just isn't making many fights anymore where we have to pinch mana pennies. It's all about power now, not endurance.
But in the end of the day it depends how you heal and what your guild has you healing most often.
Lifebloom rolls on tanks = high heal, low regen.
Raid healing generaly = lower heal, higher regen.
Even with a SP and pots I can quite often drain my mana fairly quickly depending how agressive my healing is.
Fights like Kaz, Az in MH I really have no need for a SP or pots as all I do is lifebloom, others like Teron, Naj'entus... especially Council my mana goes down quite quickly if im not careful.
Any tips for a newly-floral druid? I've been dreamstate healing for Kara and Gruul's (and doing quite well for myself), but respecced heavy restoration for 2v2 arenas and some PvE experimenting. Today I healed a heroic in treeform, and was impressed. Previous heroic tree healing was done before lifebloom stacking, and I've gained about 200-300 healing since then. My biggest concern was spike damage (how do you heal through spikey fights with HoTs? Do you give up on being a primary healer and just go into a HoT rotation?) and mana usage. Compared to carefully-chosen precast/cancelled HTs, the HoTs were causing my mana usage to drop like a rock. The switch away from dreamstate also carved away ~45 mp5, exacerbating the issue. Any tips?
Any tips for a newly-floral druid? I've been dreamstate healing for Kara and Gruul's (and doing quite well for myself), but respecced heavy restoration for 2v2 arenas and some PvE experimenting. Today I healed a heroic in treeform, and was impressed. Previous heroic tree healing was done before lifebloom stacking, and I've gained about 200-300 healing since then. My biggest concern was spike damage (how do you heal through spikey fights with HoTs? Do you give up on being a primary healer and just go into a HoT rotation?) and mana usage. Compared to carefully-chosen precast/cancelled HTs, the HoTs were causing my mana usage to drop like a rock. The switch away from dreamstate also carved away ~45 mp5, exacerbating the issue. Any tips?
You will find that even in 'spikey' fights, the raw ticks of your hots are often enough to keep the tank up, or at the very least give you or another healer in your raid the time to get a bigger cast off, resulting in a 'generally' smoother feel to the fight. Although there's always swiftmend or NS + Regrowth for those tight spots.
As for your mana issue... i'm assuming your armory profile is what you are using (but tell me otherwise and i'll re run the numbers).
Please excuse me this was written somewhat hastily...
The raw cost of keeping a lifebloom up is 153 mp5.
The raw cost of keeping a lifebloom up is 138 mp5.
In your armory profile you have 120 mp5 and an 8.7k mana pool (when i checked).
Thus un-buffed you could sustain both hots on a tank for only 4.2 minutes.
Wisdom would add another 1.4 minutes.
A restoration flask would add 1.1 minutes.
Sinking a mana pot every cool-down would add 6 minutes.
A shadow priest would... well... solve all your problems.
(please note if adding these they don't stack in a linear fashion)
But also note...
Each extra lifebloom will eat about 5 seconds.
Each rejuvenation will eat about 12 seconds.
Each regrowth... a lot.
(although keep in mind there are more factors here.. this is a 'rough' estimation)
Anyhow... Basically i would suggest stacking some more mp5... As for how much more... Well i'v been trying to work on that for quite some time... lots of graphs and no clear solution yet... I run 174 un-buffed, but only healing one tank i'm sure you could get away with around 150 if you don't mind sinking the occasional mana pot.
Last edited by starcore : 10/01/07 at 9:50 PM.
Reason: hiding from grammar nazi
Your forgetting Innervate which will give him atleast another 5k mana...
If you roll Lifeblooms on 2 tanks.... you wont have mana issues given what Druids have available (you might also consider LCPB for making them cheaper if needed).
130-150 unbuffed should be enough to sustain general tank LB rolling.
So that's it? Keep LBs up on tanks and use any gaps in the rotation to SM/add additional HoTs? Part of me is grinning that I don't have to compete with faster direct heals anymore and part of me is very, very worried about being bored. Dreamstate spec was very sensitive to timing, and was quite involved for some fights.
Are there any fights in T4/early T5 content where being in tree would be a liability, for movement debuff reasons?
I know that "fun" is a subject not often discussed at least in this area of the forums, but do those of you who just roll LBs every fight have "fun" doing it? There are a couple fights, like RoS phase 3 where I roll LBs on 4 dps through poison and certainly during trash I might just get lazy and roll a couple LBs on tanks to look like I'm actually doing something, but overall I prefer a more active role in healing.
We have so many heals at our disposal and we all know that double trinketing will probably come to and end soon, so why do so many of you pidgeonhole yourself into this mode of healing? The obvious answer is that it works, and I can appreciate that, but again, is it a fun way to play? Rolling Lifeblooms seems even more mindless than the old way of spamming rank 4 HTs that we were *all* happy to ditch and yet many of you have just fallen back into the same trap.
Perhaps its personal preference, and many of you will probably point out that its all just pushing buttons anyways, and I'm perfectly aware that keeping up 4 targets for LB is indeed a challenge, but for those of us that raid heal for a living, lifeblooming 3 tanks for 12 minutes just seems boring.
lifeblooming 3 tanks for 12 minutes just seems boring.
Council, Shahraz, Bloodboil, all the fights in the game now are requiring everyone, even LB rollers, to move around and react to the raid AoEs, fatal attraction, fel rage phase, etc. Staring at a Grid or an array of 25 health bars and playing whack-a-mole while fighting those bosses would be much, much less enjoyable to me than bloom-rolling the tanks and staying ready to instant-heal spikes while dodging all the boss' random crap. Raid healing as a druid in BT/Hyjal would, I imagine, be alot like what playing my preist through Naxx was. I'll take this any day.
Druid raid healing is also crap in my opinion. The other classes are far better at it than we are, and they don't have the tank healing ability that we have. Even if raid healing was more fun, and it's definitely not to me, theres no way I'd be doing it.
To be honest I now regret replying, because I really find myself unable to wrap my head around your thinking. Raid healing is more work, more staring at healthbars, with less awareness of the fight and less raid benefit. I didn't play a druid before the expansion and lifebloom changes, but to me what YOU are saying is falling back into the old trap. Don't get me wrong, theres tedium in rolling lifeblooms, but if I showed up to the raid in a few days and the leaders told me I'd be on raid healing for the night, I'd revolt.
If I said I would only do raid healing and wouldn't bloom-roll the tanks, I'd probably get waitlisted in favor of a shaman...
LOL, anyone still have that old flash website that parodied healing, with 40 health bars randomly going down and you click on them and heal, but it's impossible to keep them all up?
I'm never sure where this preconception that we are bad raid healers comes from. Certainly if other classes are good at raid healing, that doesn't make us bad. I've been raid healing since the beginning of TBC and attribute my strength at it not to my class, but my quick reflexes and will to get better.
I never attacked rolling lifeblooms as a method of healing simply because in some situations it is quite powerful. But to assert that druids are only usefull in this way is absurd and ultimately does more harm to us than good. There's very little reason to keep us around when rolling LBs are not obviously neccessary.
You call it "whack-a-mole," and I suppose that is fair, but I can honestly say that through all the time I spent healing one target with one spell in vanilla wow I never was challenged or entertained more than my time TBC raid healing. I get to use every heal I have while dodging all the same obstacles and I'm still watching the same hot timers that you are.
But, that wasn't really the question or point of my previous reply. The question was whether or not druids who just roll 3 lifeblooms are having fun, and by the defensive nature of your answer I'm not really sure what you decided. To answer the queston myself, I find "whack-a-mole" very fun and challenging, but I'll roll lifeblooms when it best benefits my raid.
Just a quick comment: if you're in treeform without some sort of "click to cast" mod, you're missing out. I was having trouble keeping my HoTs on 3 tanks last night, as sometimes the client would be a bit slow and I'd end up selecting a tank instead of HoTing him. Afterwards, I installed Click2Cast, and the difference is phenomenal!
It's odd not healing big chunks on the tanks or getting off that big clutch heal that saves the day, but I've jumped up in total healing done and make life easier for the rest of the healing team. Treeform snare wasn't a big deal for Gruul's shatter; I'll update with Kara thoughts later this week.
Just a quick comment: if you're in treeform without some sort of "click to cast" mod, you're missing out. I was having trouble keeping my HoTs on 3 tanks last night, as sometimes the client would be a bit slow and I'd end up selecting a tank instead of HoTing him. Afterwards, I installed Click2Cast, and the difference is phenomenal!
It's odd not healing big chunks on the tanks or getting off that big clutch heal that saves the day, but I've jumped up in total healing done and make life easier for the rest of the healing team. Treeform snare wasn't a big deal for Gruul's shatter; I'll update with Kara thoughts later this week.
On encounters where I just have to heal tanks (Mt Hyjal trash comes to mind) I use a
I'm never sure where this preconception that we are bad raid healers comes from. Certainly if other classes are good at raid healing, that doesn't make us bad. I've been raid healing since the beginning of TBC and attribute my strength at it not to my class, but my quick reflexes and will to get better.
For trash, I just don't bother with raid healing most of the time because our pallies, priests, and CHing shaman will generally overwrite them pretty quickly.
Originally Posted by Ribeye
I never attacked rolling lifeblooms as a method of healing simply because in some situations it is quite powerful. But to assert that druids are only usefull in this way is absurd and ultimately does more harm to us than good. There's very little reason to keep us around when rolling LBs are not obviously neccessary.
There is always a tank, if there is a tank then there is need for rolling lifeblooms. It's a question of healing assignments that your guild uses.
In general we run with 2 ToL druids, 2 resto shaman (1 enh), 2 holy pallies (1 prot), 1 holy priest. If we need more healers we add resto shaman or priests. I do healing assignments and my logic for new fights starts with druids on tanks, shaman on raid healing, then I look at boss abilities to figure out where to assign the rest of our healers. If we need more raid healing I start by adding priests, and then paladins.
The only exception to this so far is that we use 1 resto druid on bloodboil healing with 2 shaman. The 2 shaman CH and the druid casts 1 lifebloom per person per application of boiling blood. At the end of the day that druid does significantly more healing than anyone else on that fight. So obviously lifebloom can be incredibly effective for raid healing but in my mind it takes a specific set of conditions (constant damage, well understood healing assignments) to truly shine.
Oh and to your other question, yes sometimes it's boring. Mother Shahraz consists of me type 1, 2, 3 over and over. On most fights I'm seeing how much raid healing I can squeeze in while I'm rolling blooms so those tend to be more interesting.
All I can say is, WTB NAXX RUN.
ZHC looks fairly good, and is a 100% drop if I can organise a ZG run.
Both green quests items I have vendored carelessly while making room for my 5 hundred sets of gear. If possible I could restore them, but it seems like it's not worth it.
I currently have a Xi'ri's gift for my moonkin set, but is it worth the useless passive?
The hibernation crystal is decent but random drop, and probably takes the same effort as ZG for something worse and not as good.
Have I missed out any trinkets? Am I crazy in thinking these trinkets trump every other trinket in TBC. I guess I'm off to ZG to get the best healing trinket in the game thats available to me =(
I trashed my ZHC several months ago like a noob, not sure if I should try getting it restored.
I use essence of the martyr and either heavenly inspiration or bangle of endless blessings.
You did leave out warp scarab brooch which is essentially a higher quality version of heavenly inspiration, but drops from heroic mana tombs. I've been too lazy to try to get it, but I might try when there are more people running it for badges with the 2.3 rewards being added (assuming they're good).
This is what I use and atm I would only upgrade the Relic to [Warp-Scarab Brooch] and I may not even want to do that after 2.3. [Eye of the Dead] looks great on paper but it doesn't stack with the other ones and well, thats bad times.
Given all this, I'm still planning to pick up a [Memento of Tyrande] as I feel its inevidable that burst +heal staying on a Lifebloom forever will be nerfed someday.
[Eye of the Dead] looks great on paper but it doesn't stack with the other ones and well, thats bad times.
I'm confused with what you mean by this. Are the CD's shared or somehow the buff doesn't work properly with other on use trinkets.
[Memento of Tyrande] is great but every single healer wants on of these =|. "Picking it up for later" isn't really a possibility.
Sadly, I vendored my [Oshu'gun Relic], and would you still use it over a [Zandalarian Hero Charm]? In any fight without the possibility of lifebloom stacking, I would most likely sub out the trinket for my lower city anyway (i.e. bloodboil), or is it good enough to use one of my restores.
Also I've been considering having a weapon swap with lots of +heal to start buffed lifeblooms, anyone had any experience with doing this and is it viable.
I'm using a [Apostle of Argus] with a spellsurge and just switching out to my pvp weapon + pvp offhand gives me an extra 80~ healing.
Given the popularity of clickable +heal trinkets, what do people think about the Alchemists Stone? I think for Shammys / Pallys / Priests the Stone comes out as one of (if not the best) trinket for non-trash healing, but what about for Trees?
09/27/07, 10:47 AM
The thing is for me at least normally the fights only have 1 MT who I have to heal + lifeblooms on the raid. Or fights (like the Mt Hyjal trash for instance) where I just hit lifebloom every single GCD when I'm not on decursing duty. The thing is I'm currently planning my equipment like this (i.e. spamming +22 heal gems everywhere I can) as we normally have 2 trees in our raids. Currently I have ~140-150 mp5 unbuffed and on very mana intensive fights I get a spriest (who then gets my innervate ;( ) and on some fights I can use my trinkets beforehand and exchange in that bangle trinket with a chance to get more manareg infight + spirit use (sorry can't use thott/wowhead here) and last but not least with the upcoming spirit infight manareg changes (instead of 15% 3 points will alow 30% of your out of 5 sec rule regen to happen inside those 5 seconds) I just want to make sure my gemming choice is viable and can be sustained (currently there is no fight too long for my manapool and only Illidan sounds like it would be long enough to fully drain me).
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