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Old 06/01/07, 5:09 PM   #1
darkInertia
Von Kaiser
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Bonechewer
Imp. Weapon Totems

Focusing on WF totem:

What is the general concensus about whether to spend 2 points to get the extra AP for the WF attacks on the totem? (I'm assuming that the totem's talent doesn't work only grats additional AP rather than scaling all of the windfury attack - like elemental weapons does.)

edit for clarity:

Elemental weapons increases total windfury damage by 40% (base damage plus the extra AP), so it's (Weapon Damage + 475)* 1.4, whereas from the wording of the imp weapon totem the extra 30% is only applied to the bonus AP and not to the base damage: Weapon Damage + 445 * 1.3

Last edited by darkInertia : 06/03/07 at 1:41 AM.

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Old 06/01/07, 5:44 PM   #2
Malan
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Originally Posted by darkInertia View Post
(I'm assuming that the totem's talent doesn't work only grats additional AP rather than scaling all of the windfury attack - like elemental weapons does.)
Can you spend a moment and clean that up, because it just reads and gibberish to me.

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Old 06/01/07, 5:46 PM   #3
Nite_Moogle
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The AP bonus from the totem is not very significant. It is far from a poor investment of points, but it's not a staple either.

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Old 06/01/07, 6:40 PM   #4
Tharas
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Originally Posted by Nite_Moogle View Post
The AP bonus from the totem is not very significant. It is far from a poor investment of points, but it's not a staple either.
Filling out the 5th rank of enhancement talent points on my alt shaman got me 1/2 in Imp Weapon Totems, 1/1 Spirit Weapons 3/3 Elemental Weapons being the others. I also have 2/2 Enhancing Totems (for GoA and SoE totems).

I'm still leveling this character up but it sounds like going back to pick up 2/2 in Imp Weapon Totems is not always done then? I was heading towards a 20/41/0 build (our guild has no enhancement shamans right now -- 1 resto, 1 elemental, and that's it -- the character would be an alt for me that I might bring only for the raids that could be stacked correctly, plus it's just really fun to play). At one point I thought 19/42/0 would be better to get the 2nd point, or is there something else I should be doing? (I presently don't have Mental Quickness nor was I planning on it).

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Old 06/01/07, 6:51 PM   #5
Nite_Moogle
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Elemental/Enhancement is pretty crappy synergy to be honest. You aren't making use of any of it when you're in melee except for around 10% of your damage if you spam shocks and have Searing totem down, which isn't always the right thing to do. Going 19 in Resto for the .5 off Healing Wave means you can heal if you have to, 3% spell/melee hit is incredibly useful for melee damage and for ensuring your interrupt shocks land, totem range is an important if you get stuck with hunters a lot, and healing pushback protection is always useful. I keep meaning to respec, but the only thing I'll really change is 1 point that is currently in Toughness to Imp Weapon Totems. I'll save that for after I respec resto some day to make our usual Restos look bad

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Old 06/01/07, 7:41 PM   #6
slant
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Drenden
I never bothered with imp weapon totems; the main benefit is the extra swing, not the AP bonus. But I haven't tested it, so I certainly wouldn't take that as gospel.

You DEFINITELY shouldn't take toughness.

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Old 06/01/07, 7:45 PM   #7
Malan
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Originally Posted by slant View Post
You DEFINITELY shouldn't take toughness.
I miss toughness actually and am trying to figure out how to get points into it. Gurgthock was a big proponent for toughness before 2.0 as well.

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Old 06/01/07, 7:51 PM   #8
Stopokingme
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I personally ditched improved weapon totems for extra dodge, back when it still was an occasional life saver against cleaves. The benefit isn't huge, from what I remember at 60, the benefit of having improved weapon totems was a 5 dps gain for everyone getting it. Not overly much, but still a decent enough boost.

I'd probably respec back to it if we had more dps warriors around, we're pretty feral druid heavy, right now I don't drop WF totem enough to make it worth the 50g to respec Still miss the battleshouts though.

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Old 06/01/07, 8:10 PM   #9
slant
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Drenden
Have you done the math? Toughness is actually one of the worst talents shamans get.

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Old 06/01/07, 8:20 PM   #10
Nite_Moogle
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Mal'Ganis
It was good when I was leveling and wearing greens, I haven't changed specs since then :P

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Old 06/01/07, 8:23 PM   #11
slant
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Drenden
I did the math awhile ago; wearing full 2.0 gladiator gear and shield, toughness is roughly half as effective as anticipation. Anticipation isn't a great talent either, since we shouldn't be getting hit. The only advantage to toughness is that dodge only works from the front.

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Old 06/01/07, 8:31 PM   #12
Xoya
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What spec are you all promoting that doesn't involve taking 2/2 Improved Weapon Totems? :/ Seems like a no-brainer to me. If it helps the dps of my group, I can surely sacrifice one point in <insert talent that only helps me and isn't vital to my dps>.

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Old 06/01/07, 8:49 PM   #13
Malan
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Staying alive to continue buffing the groups is often just as important. And you can talk about "shouldn't be getting hit" all day, but it works out differently in practice. Healers shouldn't die either, but damned if those priests aren't always complaining about their armor on gear.

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Old 06/01/07, 8:54 PM   #14
slant
Don Flamenco
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Drenden
I usually drop the 2 extra points into anticipation, because an extra 20 group DPS is pretty minor. I guess a dedicated raid spec would take it, but not a big deal.

Agreed, of course you'll be getting hit, I'm just saying that I'd rather spend my precious talent points offensively. Mathematically it's a 1% improvement, so anticipation is balanced, unlike toughness.

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Old 06/01/07, 9:18 PM   #15
Xoya
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Originally Posted by Malan View Post
Staying alive to continue buffing the groups is often just as important. And you can talk about "shouldn't be getting hit" all day, but it works out differently in practice. Healers shouldn't die either, but damned if those priests aren't always complaining about their armor on gear.
If I get hit on a fight where it matters (i.e. not trash), I'm going to die unless I dodge, especially considering I'm not wearing a shield. There are far more fights where it's a race between your raid's DPS and the enrage timer than there are fights where I need to worry about getting hit with a physical attack. I just don't see the benefit of, say, Toughness. What's 2% additional armor when we're not using a shield and we're using a mish-mash of leather and mail?

Edit: mind you, I'm all for survivability talents. When I'm resto spec I go with 8/0/53 and pick up Nature's Guardian and Elemental Warding. I just don't feel that the 1 or 2 points spent elsewhere than Improved Weapon Totems is really worthwhile, unless you're trying to go with a more pvp-style spec and pick up something like Improved Ghost Wolf or two-handed maces/axes.

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