Hit Caps - Page 3

• Relwin · 07/10/07, 1:34 PM

Yeah, it's really just for the sake of knowing at this point for me as well. I gave up on shaman mechanics when they got stupid, which was long after I'd ruined all my sockets with hit gems. I think we're doing another alt Gruul this week so I'll tweak downward slightly and see if I can find a smaller range.

Okijin · 07/10/07, 2:12 PM

Its been a very long time since i was allowed to be a dps warrior (just before twin emps if i recall) but i seem to remember each hand (for warriors) operating on a different miss chance(8.6 for MH and 25ish for OH). This seems to be borne out by the SWstats data of our new dps warrior who runs at about 16% hit and claims he has not seen a miss from his main hand in weeks.

I'll try to get him to WWS a few SSC runs and post the data here. I could very well be wrong on this but i thought i was worth talking about

Ticia · 07/10/07, 3:06 PM

Originally Posted by Okijin

Its been a very long time since i was allowed to be a dps warrior (just before twin emps if i recall) but i seem to remember each hand (for warriors) operating on a different miss chance(8.6 for MH and 25ish for OH). This seems to be borne out by the SWstats data of our new dps warrior who runs at about 16% hit and claims he has not seen a miss from his main hand in weeks.

I'll try to get him to WWS a few SSC runs and post the data here. I could very well be wrong on this but i thought i was worth talking about

This is definitely wrong and has been disproved plenty of times. What he's probably doing is confusing "MH" Attacks with Yellow Attacks. Those numbers are right for the Yellow/White attack miss rates, but MH and OH have the exact same miss rate when dual wielding.

There's also no way he could claim he never misses from his main hand white damage since there's no way in combat log or parses to tell whether an attack is a MH or OH attack.

Ulric · 07/10/07, 4:19 PM

I don't know if swstats count parry/dodge as misses, but...

Punscho · 07/10/07, 4:31 PM

You got a mace mainhand and a dagger offhand and you only got mace spec and not weapon expertise, thus your offhand is only at 350 skill.

Ulric · 07/11/07, 2:42 AM

Hmhm that make sense.

Parry/dodge (parries vs skeletons during air phase, as said Daemona) + no WoE should give that % misses.

Thanks

The Iron Colonel · 07/11/07, 1:27 PM

Welshy - WWS

Not sure what people think about this, but I'll post it anyway. On Gruul/Mag last night, I missed in melee with a 2H. I'm not exactly sure how melee with 2H stacks up, but I have 'too much' hit (151 hit rating) and managed to miss in melee. Is there something I'm missing (no pun intended)? It's not a parry or dodge, it's actually a miss, which as far as I know shouldn't be possible with that much hit. Possible evidence for a 'min miss %' theory?

Edit: you'll have to turn on number of misses to see that I missed only one. Being that I'm a hunter, 1 melee miss out of a small number makes it appear as though I miss at a much higher rate, hence the 16.6% miss rate on melee.

Ticia · 07/11/07, 1:50 PM

Originally Posted by The Iron Colonel

Welshy - WWS

Not sure what people think about this, but I'll post it anyway. On Gruul/Mag last night, I missed in melee with a 2H. I'm not exactly sure how melee with 2H stacks up, but I have 'too much' hit (151 hit rating) and managed to miss in melee. Is there something I'm missing (no pun intended)? It's not a parry or dodge, it's actually a miss, which as far as I know shouldn't be possible with that much hit. Possible evidence for a 'min miss %' theory?

Edit: you'll have to turn on number of misses to see that I missed only one. Being that I'm a hunter, 1 melee miss out of a small number makes it appear as though I miss at a much higher rate, hence the 16.6% miss rate on melee.

If you click on the "Melee" section in the WWS report it expands and shows you more details. Doing that, it shows that one "Miss" is actually a Parry, not a direct miss.

The Iron Colonel · 07/11/07, 2:33 PM

My mistake, sorry. I assumed "miss" meant "miss" not "dodge, parry, or miss". Thanks for clearing that up!

Valerian · 07/15/07, 2:07 AM

Originally Posted by zork

As we wrote in the "+ weapon skill"-thread, the formula for our miss-chance for 2handers / ranged seems to be:

5 + (mob_level - player_level) + ((mob_base_defense - player_weapon_skill) * 0.04) = 8.6 for 73

What I do not quite understand: The miss chance for dw should be:

19 + 5 + ((mob_base_defense - player_weapon_skill) * 0.1) = 25.5 for 73

They seem to be very different.

Has anyone done tests on the one-hand + shield miss-chance yet? It could be:

5 + ((mob_base_defense - player_weapon_skill) * 0.1) = 6.5 for 73

It seems logical to me, that the dual wield miss chance and the 2hander miss chance should follow a similar formula, save for a constant difference (i.e., the dual wield penalty). As such the overall model for missing should be something like:

Total_Miss_Chance = Base_Miss_Chance + Dualwield_Penalty + Level_Difference_Factor + Defense_WeaponSkill_Factor

Base_Miss_Chance and the Dualwield_Penalty are pretty universally accepted at 5% and 19% respectively. Almost all posts eventually arrive at this conclusion from what I have seen.

Thus we need to determine the Level_Difference_Factor and the Defense_WeaponSkill_Factor . The key here, is that it would make logical sense that these factors are the same regardless of dual-wielding or wielding a 2hander.

Now I am wondering if these factors work for mobs as well. Would a level 67 mob vs a level 70 player likely have the same miss chance as a 70 player vs a 73 mob? If so testing this would be much easier since you could find a lower level mob and just heal through its damage. Before I actually go and do this I'd just like to know if anyone has seen/done this so that I am not simply wasting my time.