[top] 791.1

Mind you, that damage without Slaying would be:

321.5 + (321.5 * 1.30)

Tyr · 06/04/07, 4:50 AM

A member of my guild found this link:

http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=39957

The tooltip of the gem just says "3%" which could even work for mages. Does someone has any confirmation if the 3% really only work for melee-dps. If that'd be the case the value of gem would greatly decrease for hunters.

• Aldriana · 06/04/07, 4:53 AM

As far as I know, it has been tested and found to work on all melee classes, plus most hunter shots (although not Arcane Shot). I'm not aware of any testing by mages/caster dps, but I'd be frankly shocked if it affected them.

AndrewCarr · 06/04/07, 4:54 AM

There was a blue post awhile back on this, stating that it's not working for arcane shot currently(but everything else) and that it's being looked into.

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...06671433&sid=1

So I guess it's not confirmation that it'd work for mages, but at least it shows that it's not only melee dps.

• sp00n · 06/04/07, 4:56 AM

Apply Aura: Mod Crit Damage Bonus (Melee) (769)

Seems quite clear to me.

// Edit
Oh.

// Edit2
From the blue poster:

The increased critical damage bonus granted by the Relentless Earthstorm Diamond does, indeed, affect ranged attacks -- e.g. Aimed Shot, Steady Shot, Multi-Shot -- but currently there is an issue by which it is not increasing the critical damage of Arcane Shot. This is currently under investigation, however, and should be resolved in an upcoming patch if present internal testing bears out. My apologies for the confusion.

So this seems like it is consistent with the description on thottbot "Apply Aura: Mod Crit Damage Bonus (Physical)" that it increases all physical damage, but does not yet affect magical damage (Arcane Shot is arcane damage with melee mechanics right?).

Lactose · 06/04/07, 6:54 AM

Originally Posted by sp00n

So this seems like it is consistent with the description on thottbot "Apply Aura: Mod Crit Damage Bonus (Physical)" that it increases all physical damage, but does not yet affect magical damage (Arcane Shot is arcane damage with melee mechanics right?).

Arcane Shot is a normal physical (ranged) attack in terms of mechanics, dealing Arcane damage.
Possible outcomes of Arcane Shot:
Hit
Crit
(Partial) block - both hits and crits
(Partial) resist - both hits and crits, I believe.
Immune
Miss

• sp00n · 06/04/07, 8:13 AM

So, due to dealing arcane damage, the current implementation of the Aura does not affect the critical strike bonus.
That's basically what the blue poster says then.

Therefore it does only affect attacks that deal physical damage, regardless of the underlying mechanic of the attack.
Means: a mage beating with his stave would gain the 3%. His frostbolt doesn't.

El_Savor · 06/06/07, 8:51 PM

/bump

Patch 2.1.2 released on PTR.

"Relentless Earthstorm Diamond: The bonus damage to critical strikes from this metagem now applies to all types of damage, not just physical."

Does that mean i can apply this to my mages gear? Any possible theroycrafting compared to other gems?

Since i'm a lazy peon, i'll let the experts do the work.

Stopokingme · 06/06/07, 9:50 PM

Originally Posted by El_Savor

/bump

Patch 2.1.2 released on PTR.

"Relentless Earthstorm Diamond: The bonus damage to critical strikes from this metagem now applies to all types of damage, not just physical."

Does that mean i can apply this to my mages gear? Any possible theroycrafting compared to other gems?

Since i'm a lazy peon, i'll let the experts do the work.

Though possible, it seems more likely that this is just Blizzards way of saying that it now works for arcane shot as well. They've always had a tendency of vague patchnotes meaning simple things :P

El_Savor · 06/07/07, 3:48 AM

I was thinking that too. But i mean... "all types of damage". Come on, ist just ALL types of damage nor?

Roywyn · 06/07/07, 5:34 AM

How does the crit bonus work?

Does it increse the critical strike damage by 3% (i.e. from 200% to 206%), or just the critical strike bonus damage (i.e. 100%+100% to 100%+(103%))?
Name suggests the former, the datamined spell desciption suggests the latter.

Would appreciate a reply from someone who has the gem.
If someone tested it on spells on the PTR, even better!

Groggan · 06/07/07, 12:54 PM

Originally Posted by Roywyn

How does the crit bonus work?

Does it increse the critical strike damage by 3% (i.e. from 200% to 206%), or just the critical strike bonus damage (i.e. 100%+100% to 100%+(103%))?
Name suggests the former, the datamined spell desciption suggests the latter.

Would appreciate a reply from someone who has the gem.
If someone tested it on spells on the PTR, even better!

The crit damage increasing talents work like the latter, so I would assume the diamond does as well.

Igniter · 06/07/07, 8:35 PM

Originally Posted by Stopokingme

Though possible, it seems more likely that this is just Blizzards way of saying that it now works for arcane shot as well. They've always had a tendency of vague patchnotes meaning simple things :P

And hopefully WF/SS, if it already didn't

Eej · 06/08/07, 12:47 AM

Humanoid Slaying has already been determined to work for crits like this:

Base Damage + [Base Damage * (Crit Modifier * Slaying Modifier)] * Slaying Modifier

Thus with Mortal Shots and Humanoid Slaying, it would look like this:

Base Damage + [Base Damage * (1.30 * 1.03)] * 1.03

Just did some testing with a Fine Light Crossbow (Damage = 29-29) and Relentless Earthstorm.

Firing at the Void Conduit at Ultris (rough numbers):

301-302 Damage base
717-718 Damage on Crit

301.5 + (301.5 * 1.339) * 1.03 = 717.3

Tricky part now:

On Dr. Boom:

321-322 Damage base
791 Damage on Crit

Without the Relentless Earthstorm you'd get:

321.5 + (321.5 * 1.339) * 1.03 = 764.9, which is not 791.

However, what really happens in game (numbers fully represented):

321.5 + [(321.5 * 1.30 * (1.03 + 1.03)] * [1.03 + 1.03]

[top] 791.1

Mind you, that damage without Slaying would be:

321.5 + (321.5 * 1.30)

730.5

Taking out the +3% damage bonus you'd get:

321.5 / 1.03 = 312.1

312.1 + (312.1 * 1.30) = 717.83

This would mean that combined together, Humanoid Slaying and Relentless Earthstorm Diamond increase overall crit damage by 10%, compared to not having points in either talent (mind you, this factors in the 3% more base damage as well).

Kabuto · 06/08/07, 1:19 AM

So, Troll Vs. Beast is the ultimate combo?

It's a real shame 'Slaying' is not just one talent for all mob types.
Or the current ones at least included Demons and Undead.

Groggan · 06/08/07, 1:54 AM

Are you missing a set of parrenthesis on that Eej?

Is it

Base Damage + [Base Damage * (Crit Modifier * Slaying Modifier)] * Slaying Modifier

or

(Base Damage + [Base Damage * (Crit Modifier * Slaying Modifier)]) * Slaying Modifier

?

Cause if it is the first then it would seem the slaying talents do not match their tooltip at all (aka, the "all damage cause to x by 3%" isn't really all damage, but instead just multiplying crit damage by 1.0609).

Eej · 06/08/07, 1:55 AM

The first one, just run through the numbers by yourself.

Groggan · 06/08/07, 1:59 AM

Hmm...I wonder if that is intended, cause it certainly doesn't fall in line with the tooltip.

Cause that equation can be rewritten without any parenthesis as

Base Damage + Base Damage * Crit Modifier * Slaying Modifier * Slaying Modifier

which means non crits get nothing from the slaying talents

Xeno · 06/08/07, 2:48 AM

From my limited testing Relentless Earthstorm Diamond affects the total crit, not the bonus crit like mortal shots. So a 100 hit would be a 236.9 crit with mortal shots and the metagem.

Eej · 06/08/07, 2:52 AM

Originally Posted by Groggan

Hmm...I wonder if that is intended, cause it certainly doesn't fall in line with the tooltip.

Cause that equation can be rewritten without any parenthesis as

Base Damage + Base Damage * Crit Modifier * Slaying Modifier * Slaying Modifier

which means non crits get nothing from the slaying talents

Full equation is:

Base Damage * 1.03 = Slaying Base Damage

Slaying Base Damage + (Slaying Base Damage * 1.30 * 1.03) * 1.03

So you're actually getting three 1.03s in there.

Originally Posted by Xeno

From my limited testing Relentless Earthstorm Diamond affects the total crit, not the bonus crit like mortal shots. So a 100 hit would be a 236.9 crit with mortal shots and the metagem. (Is that what you're saying Eej?)

No, it works exactly like Humanoid Slaying. It multiplies the crit bonus twice (so 100 hit would be 237.9).

Xeno · 06/08/07, 3:34 AM

Ah pretty unintuitive, but makes sense thanks.

Groggan · 06/08/07, 3:07 PM

Originally Posted by Eej

Full equation is:

Base Damage * 1.03 = Slaying Base Damage

Slaying Base Damage + (Slaying Base Damage * 1.30 * 1.03) * 1.03

So you're actually getting three 1.03s in there.

No, it works exactly like Humanoid Slaying. It multiplies the crit bonus twice (so 100 hit would be 237.9).

Ahh! Now I get it, nice. Let's not report that one :P

• Maestroquark · 06/08/07, 5:12 PM

Live version:

Apply Aura: Mod Crit Damage Bonus (Physical)

Test version:

Apply Aura: Mod Crit Damage Bonus (Physical, Holy, Fire, Nature, Frost, Shadow, Arcane)

That would imply that it is everything now.

Lactose · 06/09/07, 1:25 PM

Regarding the Slaying bonus and how it affects other crit damage boni, I seem to remember my tests (Arcane Shot testing, so no armor mitigation to take into consideration) showing it as slightly different than what Eej is writing.
From my notes:
In terms of damage dealt, CritDamage = 2*HitDamage
With 5/5 Mortal Shots: CritDamage = 2.3*HitDamage
With 3/3 Slaying: CritDamage = 1.03*HitDamage

However, with 5/5 Mortal Shots and 3/3 Slaying:
CritDamage = 1.03*(2+0.30*1.03)*HitDamage
CritDamage = 1.03*2.309*HitDamage

So, normal hit for 100 + Slaying + Mortal Shots crit:
CritDamage = SlayingMod*CritMod*(HitDamage*SlayingMod)
CritDamage = 1.03*(2+0.30*1.03)*(100*1.03)
CritDamage = 1.03*2.309*100*1.03
CritDamage = 244.96

Groggan · 06/09/07, 5:51 PM

So How does this look for finding the average auto shot damage with slaying?

((Crit %) * (2 + (Crit Multiplier) * (1 + Slaying Mod)) * (1 + Slaying Mod) + (Hit % - Crit %)) *
(Average Weapon Damage + Scope + Ammo Damage + ((RAP / 14) * Weapon Speed)) *
(1 + Damage Modifier) * (1 + Slaying Mod)

RK · 06/10/07, 6:15 AM

If for the sake of argument it applies to casters... hmm.

Assume I have a 40% or so crit rate raid-buffed (this is entirely fair for an elemental shaman, and in fact it works out slightly better when you throw in a few elemental mastery shots).

That 40% = 57.14% of my damage. If that gets increased by 3%, my overall damage goes up by 1.71%.

The best alternative to that in the metagem slot is +14 spell damage.

Say that the same ele shaman has +1000 damage to his lightning bolts, raid buffed. This is probably also a little conservative, but it's the right ballpark.

Rank 12 lightning bolt averages 603 damage. 1460 after the +1000 damage gear.
Add an extra 14 spell damage, and you're doing an average of 1472 instead, an increase of 0.8%

(Yes, I'm ignoring crit rate and the +5% damage talent, since those apply to both and don't change the percentage difference).

And the relentless earthstorm diamond will only increase its lead with better gear.

Conclusion: IF it works for caster damage, relentless earthstorm diamond should be the best metagem for raiding elemental shaman DPS (mystical skyfire diamond isn't very good for us due to lightning bolt being a 2 second cast, reducing it to 1 just lets you have fun waiting out the global cooldown)

My maths wrong, or right?

[top] 791.1 Mind you, that damage without Slaying would be: 321.5 + (321.5 * 1.30)

[top] 791.1

Mind you, that damage without Slaying would be:

321.5 + (321.5 * 1.30)