sp00n

Well it is affecting them right now.

 

Roywyn

The bug that resilience works better than it should with attack that have a critical strike damage multiplier is said to be fixed.

This gem uses exactly the resilience mechanics backwards - can anyone check on the PTR if it now works more like intended?

Edit:
Did some quick tests with arcane missiles, and it seems it works like intended now.
Arcane missiles (+50% bonus to crit damage, so crits for 175%) and it crit for 179.6%-180.3%, and most likely less than the current 181.75%

Edit:
Repeated with the new PTR patch, 533/534 hits, 961/962 crits, so 1.7996-1.80487 crit multiplier.
Old multiplier was (((1.5*1.03)-1)*1,5+1) = 1.8175, new one should be 1.75*1.03 = 1.8025.
Seems to fit the new model.

 

Kavan

I just tested also and I can confirm that the new formula is base * (1 + crit multiplier * talent crit modifier) * crit modifier. So in the case of arcane this is base * (1 + 0.5 * 1.5) * 1.03 = base * 1.8025. Experimental results give 677 hit / 1220 crit.

 

Kavan

EDIT: stupidity

 

Niley

I did a bit of testing before and after I got this meta, Before I had 14 crit & 1% reflect one.
I'm an elemental shaman, this was done without any buffs other then my totems.
http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/1...estmetajw6.jpg

 

sp00n

Uuh, while this is a nice log (which mod is this by the way), I think it would be useful if you'd summarize the outcome.

// Edit
Honestly, I'm to drunk to do it myself.

 

Kcolraw

can someone test this with ice lance?

 

• frmorrison

The mod is SW Stats.

Just from the picture alone, I can't see what he is trying to show there. I think he wanted to show the dps difference, but cropped it off.

 

Naraya

Just from the quick skimming over the both logs, I can clearly see that LB crits before applying Relentless Earthstorm Diamond were around 3300-3400, and after they are around 3500

 

Malan

WoW BlueTracker: Blue Response plz to Meta gem question.

Drysc has confirmed that this works for all damage types and that the 3% is applied to the base crit damage modifier.

Shitting up every single thread on EJ since '06

 

Kavan

Just because a CM says something it doesn't make it true. Current implementation on the test works as 3% increase on total damage of crit. It is good to hear this though because this means that gem working on spells is intended, but you never know.

 

Ele'

I'm in the process of comparing the Relentless Earthstorm diamond to other metagems, on a warlock point of view. I found this a little bit too complex to be easily readable inside a forum, so I made some web pages to summarize that.

[Disclamer] There are some stupid popups and adds on this site, but I don't have a "popup-free" ftp at hand. Sorry...

You can access this website here, all comments are welcome.



... in fact I'm pretty sure I made some mistakes, so I'd love to get "contrasted" feedbacks to model this metagem more accurately .

 

Nizari

Hmm to me I can see where it becomes 206%... because the 50% extra dmg on crit becomes 153% and your talent increases the extra crit dmg by 100% (doubling it) so that means 106% extra dmg (53+53)... but where did that extra 3% come from that I keep hearing about (209?).. Because I am trying to decide whether I should invest in one of these for my Elemental shaman (currently using Destructive Skyfire 14 crit rating and 1% spell reflect)

We are working on Vashj so I might wait till I get my Tier 5 helm to test out this Gem. Also the spell reflect helps while kiting the striders :P

I mainly don't want to replace this gem only to have it quickly "fixed" i.e. nerfed.

 

Malan

I don't think its going to be "fixed", the CM post that I linked above clearly states that it is intended for the effect to work on both melee and spell crits.

Shitting up every single thread on EJ since '06

 

Frostie

I don't think the fact that it works with spell damage is what people are expecting to be fixed. I think people are assuming that the formula for how it applies it's damage bonus is the error that may be corrected.

I don't have any real opinions on how I think it should be applying it's damage bonus. But I don't think anyone is arguing that the fact that it works with spells is a bug (anymore).

 

Nizari

I meant from a 209/206% stance I heard reports that it was doing 209... I can't figure out why it would do this, and my own simple maths can see that it should be doing 206%... but I am wondering if they mean for it to do 203%... and may therefore nerf it

 

Malan

I'd agree with the 206%, as it makes sense with talents and how the 3% is added to your base crit damage. Where is someone reporting 209% though?

Shitting up every single thread on EJ since '06

 

Nizari

[quote]Okay, quick and dirty maths before falling asleep!

Suggestive's data: Immolate hits - 712 - 713, Immolate crits - 1488 - 1489
1488/713 = 2.086956, 1489/712 = 2.091292

Oprahwinfury's data: 588-589 Non Crit, 1229-1230 Crit
1229/589 = 2.086587, 1230/588 = 2.091836

[top]> It makes your crits go from 200% to 209% crits, the bonus goes from 100% to 109%.
This makes crit 9% more useful than it is right now for damage, so if you had 1 crit rating

0.8 dmg before, you now have 1 crit rating = 0.8*1.09 = 0.872.

How does that work formula wise when a spell that hits for 100 damage crits?
Perhaps (100 + 50*critmod_talents+1.03)*1.03?
It would be 209.09, which is between our upper and lower borders from your numbers.
Isn't exactly the same how the hunter numbers work, sadly.[quote]

Is just one example...

[edit]
Ok I can't figure out why that whole paragraph is coming up all big and bold.... but it isn't meant to be >.<

I didn't even ask for it to be bold

 

Pine

Am I overrating this meta in my math?

On average i'll say pre-20% my fireballs crit for 5000.

On any given fight i'll have atleast a 45% crit rate including combustion.

So, to round i'll say a 50% crit rate

5000x.03=150 more damage from every crit pre-20%.

150/2=75, so, for me I can almost rate this meta as a 75 damage meta. Now I was pretty forgiving with the numbers so it's probably more around 70 pre-20%

Now, post 20% my fireballs go up to critting for 6000.

On a farm boss, or for average post-20% is going to be around 800,000 HP left. Now being forgiving with say..14000 raid dps post-20% it's about one minute of post-20% damage.

so, we'll say 16 fireballs post-20% with 8 of them critting

6000x.03=180/2=90. So around 85~ damage post-20%.

 

Malan

Nizari - Yah I see from page 2 now that its also mentioned that spells with no crit dmg modifier do the correct amount of crit damage with the gem. Perhaps it is a bug then.
Oh and the bolding/large text is some bleed over from the wiki project that Boe is working on.

Shitting up every single thread on EJ since '06

 

Nizari

Well I just completed some of my own testing and it appears to indeed be 209% more dmg from normal casts.

Spamming LB on Dr. Boom - I used the Shiffars Nexus Horn and because of its brief Duration separated the data from when it wasn't active. I had ToW WoA and Mana Spring active, did 2 minute tests and did 5 tests before inserting the Relentless Earthstorm Diamond and 5 after

Without the Nexus Proc I got an average of 3431 for critical strikes and 1642 for not.
3431/1642*100 = 208.95 (2dp)

With the Nexus Proc I got an average of 3832 for critical strikes and 1828 for not
3832/1828*100 = 209.63 (2dp)

so it appears to be a 209% increase on normal dmg.

Also if it matters to anyone it resulted in a 130 DPS increase :O although one of the tests with the diamond I got a highly unlikely 52% crit rate (about 42 is norm) which might have scewed that. 111% of the old DPS rate..

 

Grymm

I'm just typing this out so that I can sort out how this is working and possibly someone will note any misconceptions I have.

So spells have a base crit damage modifier of 1.5. This is worded/intended to give a total crit that is 1.03x more than a normal crit. This gives a crit modifier of 1.5x1.03 = 1.545. A 1000 spell hit would now crit for 1545 instead of 1500. A tree may have a talent that increases your crit bonus by 100%. You bonus is the damage you do above a normal hit. The extra 3% doesn't exist in the normal hit so it resides entirely in the math for the crit bonus. Your effective base crit bonus is .545. 100% more than this is .545x2 = 1.09. Add back in your base damage and you have a spell crit total modifier of 2.09.

Melee crits have a base damage of 2.00. The modifier is 100%. A 3% increase in damage yields a 2.06x melee crit. Any talent (like impale) should stack as magic crits stack. An impale crit should hit for 1+1.06*1.20 total damage or 2.272 damage (instead of 2.20). This is only a slightly higher than a 3% total increase in the damage of the crit. A rogue with a 1.3 SS modifier (is that lethality?) would get slightly more.

Hmmmm.

 

Malan

Interesting. Perhaps that's the exact reason that the gem has the Agility on it, not to designate it as a melee gem, but to give a little extra to the melee using the meta gem since casters end up getting more oomph out of it.

Shitting up every single thread on EJ since '06

 

chase

I think your giving the gem designers more credit than they deserve. When it first came out it was indeed pysical damage only. Than came complaints about Arcane shot not being affected and I'm sure holy damage from paladins. (Basically all the wierd spells that are melee rules but give other than melee damage)

So they changed the hidden modifier to increase damage from physical only, to all magic schools. Undoubyfully, some twisted caster gave the gem a try and found out what we know. Next patch they state that meta works with all damage. (cats already out of the bag, they didn't change anything)

Following patch (current PTR), they change how the multiplier gets factored in so perhaps some of the larger bonuses (arc/X), get reigned in while others remain the same.

From what I have read the arcane multiplier has changed slightly, but nothing else confirmed.

 

chase

Hate to necro a thread, but after arguing with people about how the crit modifier is applied to mage spells I did some testing.


I got the meta and stuck it in a helm. I cleared all my talents and headed to Dr. Boom.
PTR Results

Frostbolt:
No Meta/No Shard: 1.498
Meta/No Shard: 1.543
Shards only: 1.992
Shards & Meta: 2.082 2.059
~9% crit mult increase

Fireball:
No Meta: 1.495 Counting Ignite: 2.093
Meta: 1.545 Counting Ignite: 2.163 1.529 Counting Ignite:2.141
Ignite damage is 40% of the 1.545 crit.
~7% crit mult increase

Arcane:
No Meta/SP: 1.749
Meta/SP:1.814 1.804
~6.5% crit mult increase

Arc/Frost:
No Meta/Shard/SP: 2.249
Meta/Shard/SP: 2.359 2.325
~11% crit mult increase

Arc/Fire:
No Meta/SP/Ignite: 1.703 Counting Ignite: 2.384
Meta/SP/Ignite: 1.795 Counting Ignite: 2.513 1.764 Counting Ignite:2.470
~12.9% crit mult increase

Testing Methodology:
Shoot several mana bars of the test spell w/o the meta. Have recap record the average non-crit and average crit. With a large sample size the average crit was produced by the average non-crit. Divide average crit by average non-crit and you get the multiplier. I did it without the meta because it was a good determination of how spells I had to cast to get a reliable number. Than, of course, repeat test with meta. (i.e. Frostbolt was only like 5-6 mana bars of frostbolts. Fireball (high variance) was on the order of 8-9.)

I'm not saying that these coef are correct to the 3rd decimal place. Probably only good +/- 1%.

Coming Soon: PTR test results as I understand that some changes may have happened with how the mutliplier is applied to the formula.

Seems where the crit multiplier is in the formula has changed. Makes sense, 200% multipliers double it as you would expect. Not as good as it once was, but still better than the straight 3% as advertised in most cases.