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Old 09/25/07, 6:35 PM   #126
• Vulajin
Vula'jin the Void, blessed by the loa
 
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Undead Mage
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Tsook View Post
The math that was used pre-2.2 was really funky. Sven had the closest model I saw for how it worked in this post: http://elitistjerks.com/404567-post11.html

It seems like, logically, it should either be an additive 3% more (so if your crits normally do 230%, they now do 233%), or it should be a multiplier over your whole crit damage, e.g. 230% * 103% = 236.9%.

It was neither of those before, but now maybe it is the latter for sinister strike?
Actually, if you follow the formula suggested by the post you linked, it correlates even more accurately with the numbers I provided (given a base crit multiplier of 234.3%, the expected RED multiplier is about 242.1%).

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Old 09/25/07, 7:02 PM   #127
Tsook
chiefly comprised of water
 
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Tsook
Troll Hunter
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by Vulajin View Post
Actually, if you follow the formula suggested by the post you linked, it correlates even more accurately with the numbers I provided (given a base crit multiplier of 234.3%, the expected RED multiplier is about 242.1%).
Good point. So the mystery is your base 234.3% crit, which must be strangeness in interactions between Aggression, Surprise Attacks, and Lethality. I notice you're a troll - you didn't happen to be testing on a beast, did you? [EDIT: Or something that is affected by Murder]

As a side note, I can't believe Blizzard did a complete overhaul of their crit damage calculations and the math is still hopelessly opaque and bizarre.

Last edited by Tsook : 09/25/07 at 7:19 PM.

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Old 09/25/07, 7:37 PM   #128
• Vulajin
Vula'jin the Void, blessed by the loa
 
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Undead Mage
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Tsook View Post
Good point. So the mystery is your base 234.3% crit, which must be strangeness in interactions between Aggression, Surprise Attacks, and Lethality. I notice you're a troll - you didn't happen to be testing on a beast, did you? [EDIT: Or something that is affected by Murder]

As a side note, I can't believe Blizzard did a complete overhaul of their crit damage calculations and the math is still hopelessly opaque and bizarre.
Dividing the crit damage by the non-crit damage should have canceled out the Murder effect. Same thing if I had been fighting a beast. I believe Servants of Razelikh are Undead, though, so neither effect should have been present.

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Old 09/25/07, 7:51 PM   #129
Nennx
Von Kaiser
 
Human Warlock
 
Sargeras
Ok, so the meta-gem no longer works for casters. It's not in the patch notes or anything, has there been any confirmation that this is an intended change by blizzard, or just a bug?

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Old 09/25/07, 7:53 PM   #130
Tsook
chiefly comprised of water
 
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Tsook
Troll Hunter
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by Vulajin View Post
Dividing the crit damage by the non-crit damage should have canceled out the Murder effect. Same thing if I had been fighting a beast. I believe Servants of Razelikh are Undead, though, so neither effect should have been present.
I agree it should have, but by that logic it should have canceled out Aggression and Surprise Attacks as well. I suppose I'll leave it to the real rogue theorycrafters to determine which of those is interacting oddly with Lethality, and how.

One thing I'd still like to see is a test of Flame Shock by an elemental shaman. We've got the report from Revdarian, but he's lacking Elemental Fury, which could make a big difference if Sven's formula still holds. (Granted even a resto shaman should see > 150% crits with RED unless it has been completely nerfed for casters.)

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Old 09/25/07, 8:15 PM   #131
Moshne
Bald Bull
 
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Draenei Shaman
 
Whisperwind
Elemental Shaman here

1164, 582, 582, 582, 582, 1164 (with RED) = 100% Crit damage

1132, 1132, 1132, 566, 566 (changing helms, no RED) = 100% Crit damage

No change, gem is worthless at this point. I hope it isn't working as intended, but I suspect it is.

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Old 09/25/07, 8:39 PM   #132
Mist
Don Flamenco
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Shattered Hand
I would seriously doubt its working as intended, seeing as its completely contrary to the patch note.

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Old 09/26/07, 8:44 AM   #133
Noobshock
Banned
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Magtheridon
Has there been any sort of official word or even hint on this yet?

Bug or undocumented feature?

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Old 09/26/07, 9:27 AM   #134
Ele'
Piston Honda
 
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Human Warlock
 
Kirin Tor (EU)
I finally managed to get a blue reply about this on the EU forums.
Fereidith's answer was to report this problem ingame so that they could forward it to the developers. By receiving such "automated" response, I can only assume that the official posters (community managers and such) have received no feedback from the developers yet (or at least that this feedback has not reached the Europe staff at the moment...).

Forums de wow-europe.com -> [bug] Diamant tonneterre implacable

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Old 09/26/07, 10:07 AM   #135
Noobshock
Banned
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Magtheridon
Oh shit, incoming GM ticket spam?

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Old 09/26/07, 11:34 AM   #136
Noobshock
Banned
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Magtheridon



QQ
RIP 3% crit dmg...

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Old 09/26/07, 12:23 PM   #137
Ele'
Piston Honda
 
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Human Warlock
 
Kirin Tor (EU)
where the heck did he find this ? I have the patch notes in front of me right now and there's no mention of that o_0

anyways, it makes me a sad warlock :-/

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Old 09/26/07, 12:25 PM   #138
Cos-
Piston Honda
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Silver Hand
Originally Posted by Ele' View Post
where the heck did he find this ? I have the patch notes in front of me right now and there's no mention of that o_0

anyways, it makes me a sad warlock :-/
The quote the gm seems to have pulled out of thin air isn't even an accurate description of the change. What the hell?

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Old 09/26/07, 12:29 PM   #139
Docjowles
Soda Popinski
 
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Docjowles
Gnome Mage
 
No WoW Account
That does seem rather ridiculous. It's not in the notes included with the patch, the ones on the forum, or the ones on worldofwarcraft.com.

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Old 09/26/07, 12:33 PM   #140
Brissa
Not enough rage
 
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Gnome Warrior
 
Argent Dawn (EU)
The only mention of any change for "earthstorm" in any of the patch notes is from 2.1.2

"Relentless Earthstorm Diamond: The bonus damage to critical strikes
from this metagem now applies to all types of damage, not just physical."

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Old 09/26/07, 12:41 PM   #141
Noobshock
Banned
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Magtheridon
Maybe he has an internal (more up to date) version of the patch notes including the so-far-undocumented changes. Regardless, if you think he's full of it, just start tickets on your servers and see if the answers contradict each other.

If anything it might push blues to give us an official statement on this.

Last edited by Noobshock : 09/26/07 at 12:47 PM.

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Old 09/26/07, 1:23 PM   #142
Mist
Don Flamenco
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Shattered Hand
Originally Posted by Cos- View Post
The quote the gm seems to have pulled out of thin air isn't even an accurate description of the change. What the hell?
Its not that accurate. It doesn't effect white physical crits either atm.

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Old 09/26/07, 7:30 PM   #143
Tsook
chiefly comprised of water
 
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Tsook
Troll Hunter
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by Mist View Post
Its not that accurate. It doesn't effect white physical crits either atm.
It does for hunters. >.>

I got confirmation that it's working as intended for hunters right now. I would have asked more questions but after I explained it he disappeared for almost 15 minutes and I had to go to work by the time he replied.


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Old 09/26/07, 8:38 PM   #144
 Maestroquark
Soda Popinski
 
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Ramala
Orc Rogue
 
No WoW Account
You're still talking about GMs saying something -> always suspect information.

Here's what Drysc says:
WoW Forums -> Relentless Earthstorm Diamond -- again.

Before you start to drift, and your soul begins to scream.
I just wanted to tell you, that you're listening to a dream.

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Old 09/26/07, 10:34 PM   #145
tsuplex
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Aman'Thul
Originally Posted by Maestroquark View Post
You're still talking about GMs saying something -> always suspect information.

Here's what Drysc says:
WoW Forums -> Relentless Earthstorm Diamond -- again.
And subsequently confirmed as an unintended change.

WoW Forums -> Relentless Earthstorm Diamond -- again.

Edit: Hotfixable.

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Old 09/26/07, 10:54 PM   #146
sal
Von Kaiser
 
Gnome Warlock
 
Azgalor
damn this is getting expensive ><

let us know when its fixed!


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Old 09/27/07, 1:20 AM   #147
kennfebruary
Glass Joe
 
Undead Rogue
 
Jubei'Thos
Confirmed by Drysc it's a bug @ WoW Forums -> Relentless Earthstorm Diamond -- again.

This is why you should never ask in-game GM, they get paid for answering randomly and help to solve technical problem, not game design.

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Old 09/27/07, 1:37 AM   #148
Nas
Von Kaiser
 
Gnome Warlock
 
Nagrand
Excellent, holding onto this meta till the hotfix, hopefully it will go back to affecting spells as well, not just changed to affecting white melee hits and specials.

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Old 09/27/07, 11:10 AM   #149
Nas
Von Kaiser
 
Gnome Warlock
 
Nagrand
The servers were restarted a couple of hours ago to apply multiple hotfixes, has anyone done any tests on the RED since then to see if fixing it was one of them?

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Old 09/27/07, 12:49 PM   #150
Malazaar
Don Flamenco
 
Tauren Druid
 
Gul'dan (EU)
Still not working on EU Servers. Additionally, the druid's talent to increase melee crit damage is also broken and doesn't affect white hits

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