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Old 06/06/07, 9:54 PM   #1
Igniter
King Hippo
 
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Dwarf Paladin
 
<AHH>
Ner'zhul
Prism of Inner Calm

It seems that this trinket got ninjabuffed... http://www.wowhead.com/?item=30621 Shows -150 threat reduction per crit. So its ~3 times better than it used to be. From the example WWS it is roughly 4% less threat for me as Retribution Paladin.

In rogue example it raises the effect to roughly 10% less threat.
Prism of Inner Calm
Binds when picked up
Unique
Trinket
Requires Level 70
Equip: Reduces the threat from your harmful critical strikes.

Old:

Now, this is pretty rough testing, I'm no Disquette!
Assumptions: KTM is calculating the threat reduction correctly for both my spirit weapons and the rogues threat reduction. Also, that KTM doesn't work with prism (proven in my testing).

I'm open to criticism, as I'm probably sure something is wrong (and EJ forums will find it if it is!)
SS shows the rogue's threat, my threat, a damage meter (with my crit rating).

Rogue hit exactly 50k threat, i hit 56.9k before the mobbed turned to me. From an earlier test, one crit for 750 which clearly showed spirit weapons threat reduction, showed that KTM doesn't work with the prism atm.

So now to my horrible math. 175 hits with a 21.7 crit % gives me 37.975 crits, approximately. Rogue had 50k, to my 56.9k threat, which is a 1.9k difference (10% needed to pull melee threat), so when 6900 is divided by the 37.975 crits it shows a 50 threat reduction per crit.

I just can't see this being a good, viable trinket. I was hoping in the mini patches they might secretly hotfixed it, but it seems thats not the case. At least it only cost me one dkp.

Last edited by Igniter : 06/21/07 at 11:46 AM.

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Old 06/06/07, 9:57 PM   #2
Khlysti
Ithyphallic
 
Night Elf Death Knight
 
Silvermoon (EU)
Its 54 threat per crit, check the spell effect on wowhead.

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Old 06/06/07, 10:20 PM   #3
Igniter
King Hippo
 
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Dwarf Paladin
 
<AHH>
Ner'zhul
Expected to be at least a tiny bit off, due to speculation that spirit weapons is doing some weird things with it.

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Old 06/08/07, 8:58 AM   #4
Cromfel
Don Flamenco
 
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Human Paladin
 
Ravencrest (EU)
Here is some calculations I made while wondering if this trinket has any use at all, despite the fact that it drops from endboss of SSC (Vashj). The static threat reduction value itself works in favor of fast attacking classes as defined below, but inaddition the value is extremely small to have any real effect, hence rendering the trinket completely irrelevant. Let me show you how it effects. Example damages are pulled out of our Magtheridon kill.

http://cromfel.battlefield.fi/wow/ww...ridon_30.5.07/

Magtheridon - Rogue DPS chart
Present from 20:40 to 20:49 (71 %) DPS time : 8minutes (95 % of presence), DPS : 1209
Critical attacks: 399
Threat reduction: 21546 (399*54)
Total damage: 651718
Total % of reduction: 3.3%

Magtheridon - DW Warrior DPS chart
Present from 20:39 to 20:50 (80 %) DPS time : 9mn (88 % of presence), DPS : 836
Critical attacks: 250
Threat reduction: 13500 (250*54)
Total damage: 465762
Total % of reduction: 2.9%

Magtheridon - Retribution Paladin DPS chart
Present from 20:40 to 20:50 (74 %) DPS time : 8mn (86 % of presence), DPS : 778
Critical attacks: 107
Threat reduction: 5778 (107*54)
Total damage: 394631
Total % of reduction: 1.5%

As we can see, this trinket gives little to no threat reduction that would be worth gaining. In best case scenario, we have extremely fast attacking rogue gaining only 3.3% threat reduction from the trinket. And worst case scenario we have slow 2hander equiping Paladin who gains only 1.5% threat reduction. This item really needs rework. Not only it should have atleast twice the threat reduction to be considered even remotely useful, but in addition it should be percentual to be equal for all attack types. If it was for example 20% threat reduction from critical strikes, we would end up with following result.

Paladin total DMG: 394 631
Critical strike damage: 141499
Threat reduction: 28299
Total threat reduction: 7.2%

Rogue total DMG: 651718
Critical strike damage: 239891
Threat reduction: 47978
Total threat reduction: 7.4%

This kind of total threat reductions from such boss loot would be considered reasonable, and someone would actually bother using the trinket. Not to mention that the percentual reduction would be equal to all classes and not favoring some types of combat. All in all: Currently the trinket is nothing but Void Crystals.

Last edited by Cromfel : 06/08/07 at 9:07 AM.

.:. Retribution Paladin Hideout .:. http://cromfel.battlefield.fi/

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Old 06/08/07, 9:35 AM   #5
Malan
Mike Tyson
 
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Malan
Tauren Shaman
 
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Originally Posted by Cromfel View Post
Magtheridon - DW Warrior DPS chart
Present from 20:39 to 20:50 (80 %) DPS time : 9mn (88 % of presence), DPS : 836
Critical attacks: 250
Threat reduction: 13500 (250*54)
Total damage: 465762
Total % of reduction: 2.9%
I don't recall people calling the Subtlety cloak enchant worthless at -2% threat, not sure why you'd say this is. Blizzard just isn't going to do scaling effects anymore, we've seen that through numerous items changes. Another 3% reduction with this trinket for a warrior is still a pretty big deal, that's just leaving room for more executes at the end with more total time spent DPSing instead of just standing around at the threat cap.

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Old 06/08/07, 9:40 AM   #6
Cromfel
Don Flamenco
 
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Human Paladin
 
Ravencrest (EU)
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
I don't recall people calling the Subtlety cloak enchant worthless at -2% threat, not sure why you'd say this is. Blizzard just isn't going to do scaling effects anymore, we've seen that through numerous items changes. Another 3% reduction with this trinket for a warrior is still a pretty big deal, that's just leaving room for more executes at the end with more total time spent DPSing instead of just standing around at the threat cap.
I havent seen single person yet who have been looking forward to replace their DPS trinket with this. The numbers just seem a tad low. Maybe I did wrong assumption by saying it isnt wanted trinket, it was based on the feedback from people who I have been talking with about this trinket. Its true that the scaling effects create a problem. But not like it is impossible to have workaround for that to create even remotely equal effect between combat styles.

.:. Retribution Paladin Hideout .:. http://cromfel.battlefield.fi/

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Old 06/08/07, 9:40 AM   #7
Zamaar
Von Kaiser
 
Undead Warrior
 
Skullcrusher
There is nothing better (or there wasn't) to replace -2% threat on cloak for casters (or for rogues with +3 agi / 70 armor pre TBC) but here the trinket can be some big -dps as opposed to an enchant on a cloak.

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Old 06/08/07, 9:46 AM   #8
Malan
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Malan
Tauren Shaman
 
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Well sure I can't see anyone replacing a trinket with it on a DPS check fight, but on a threat capped fight, sure maybe, if you've got a guy that its an issue for. Situational trinket I'd say.

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Old 06/08/07, 9:54 AM   #9
Cromfel
Don Flamenco
 
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Human Paladin
 
Ravencrest (EU)
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
Well sure I can't see anyone replacing a trinket with it on a DPS check fight, but on a threat capped fight, sure maybe, if you've got a guy that its an issue for. Situational trinket I'd say.
Fetish of the Sand Reaver that drops from AQ40, gives total threat reduction of 5.5% for lvl 70 player (20sec duration, 3min cooldown and 50% threat reduction) this trinket really seems more and more lacking to be Vashj drop. Not to mention timing Fetish with cooldowns giving just a tiny bit more edge over the Vashj one.

.:. Retribution Paladin Hideout .:. http://cromfel.battlefield.fi/

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Old 06/08/07, 10:40 AM   #10
Malan
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Malan
Tauren Shaman
 
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Agreed, the Fetish is still hands down the best trinket for threat capped classes such as Fury warriors, Enhance shaman, and mages on AoE pulls. I suspect though that Blizzard will eventually change its scaling if they see weekly lvl 70 raids into AQ40 to farm it.

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Old 06/08/07, 11:19 AM   #11
Erongg
Great Tiger
 
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Lorentz
Troll Shaman
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
Agreed, the Fetish is still hands down the best trinket for threat capped classes such as Fury warriors, Enhance shaman, and mages on AoE pulls. I suspect though that Blizzard will eventually change its scaling if they see weekly lvl 70 raids into AQ40 to farm it.
It's not THAT good. People will go back to finish an Atiesh (a guaranteed legendary drop), but no guild is going to form up for AQ40 for a chance at a Fetish. The Fetish is situationally useful though and it's better than Vashj loot, which is the problem.


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Old 06/08/07, 12:04 PM   #12
Efejel
Piston Honda
 
Tauren Druid
 
Dragonblight
Originally Posted by Cromfel View Post
The static threat reduction value itself works in favor of fast attacking classes as defined below...

Magtheridon - Rogue DPS chart
Total % of reduction: 3.3%

Magtheridon - DW Warrior DPS chart
Total % of reduction: 2.9%

Magtheridon - Retribution Paladin DPS chart
Total % of reduction: 1.5%
No DW Enh Sham numbers? They'd seem like an ideal candidate, based on the "fast attacking classes" line of thinking.

I don't know of any infinite-mana, threat-capped (Vael-like) fights in BC, but if such a fight existed would --MAYBE-- be useful for Wrath-spamming Moonkin (though subtlety change may have fixed threat problems w/ Balance).

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Old 06/08/07, 12:28 PM   #13
Blooodshot
Von Kaiser
 
Gnome Mage
 
Korgath
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
I don't recall people calling the Subtlety cloak enchant worthless at -2% threat, not sure why you'd say this is. Blizzard just isn't going to do scaling effects anymore, we've seen that through numerous items changes. Another 3% reduction with this trinket for a warrior is still a pretty big deal, that's just leaving room for more executes at the end with more total time spent DPSing instead of just standing around at the threat cap.
Hang on a second.

The subtlety enchant wasn't worthless because it was the only cloak enchant for casters that did anything for you in a raid. It was almost worthless, but sure, something > nothing.

Apart from casters, Subtlety was and still is worthless, as a matter of fact I have never ever seen any non-caster with this enchant.

Never in this game has threat reduction been more important than doing DPS, Subtlety was just used because it didn't compromise DPS.

With this trinket, no matter what class you are, you are expected to give up a sizeable chunk of damage output, for some threat reduction. It's therefore, for all intents and purposes, useless.

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Old 06/08/07, 12:33 PM   #14
Buiden
Great Tiger
 
Human Warrior
 
Dragonblight
Originally Posted by Blooodshot View Post
With this trinket, no matter what class you are, you are expected to give up a sizeable chunk of damage output, for some threat reduction. It's therefore, for all intents and purposes, useless.
Hit the nail on the head. If they honestly expect people to use this it needs either a buff, or some static or click DPS effect to go along with it.

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Old 06/08/07, 12:45 PM   #15
Braque
Piston Honda
 
Dwarf Paladin
 
Turalyon (EU)
If you are threat capped, then no extra dps gear will ever increase your effective raid dps. Therefore any item that reduces your threat increases your dps.

For classes that have no threat "dump", there will most likely be situations where the ONLY way to improve their damage output is to reduce their threat generation. There is no point in comparing this trinket to a dps trinket, because once you reached that point you'd have to hold back with the dps trinket equipped anyway.

That's who this item is for. Rogues can Vanish. Hunters, Feign. In my opinion it's worthless to them, but it could end up very nice for a well geared fury warrior or enhancement Shaman.

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