Crushing Blow

goofax · 06/08/07, 8:12 AM

According to the combat table, we all agree that we need ~100% avoidance (this includes Parry, Dodge and Block) to negate crushing blows. Correct me if i'm wrong.
However, yesterday while tanking Al'ar i got crushed through shield block.

Here's a screen : http://img266.imageshack.us/my.php?i...ushalarma9.jpg

I have 24,54% Dodge, 17,65% Parry, 32,23% Block.
Here's my profile : http://armory.wow-europe.com/#charac...ndre&n=Ambrase

Is there something i missed concerning crushing mechanics?
I can't figure out why/how i got crushed with shield block up.

kavalier · 06/08/07, 8:38 AM

I think this issue with warriors getting crushed with Shield Block activated has been discussed in various other threads before... but I'll bite.

I am not at all familiar with the Al'ar encounter so I don't know if he has a special ability that makes his hits crush 100%... but I'm going to assume that's not the case. I would attribute this case mostly to latency with a mix of how the game handles simultaneous events, since there is only a difference of 2 seconds between your activating Shield Block and Al'ar crushing you. This means that the times you see on your client is not exactly what the server is seeing. What most likely happened server-side is that Al'ar's first attack on you (the one absorbed by PW:S) came before your Shield Block, then his second attack (the one that crushed) came before or at exactly the same time as when you activated your Shield Block.

As Whiteknight et al. have concluded in another thread, the game server handles simultaneous events that are mutually exclusive/ambiguous and just lets them both resolve (i.e. paladins casting DI on someone, using up the reagent, and that someone dying anyway).

Hoonboof · 06/08/07, 8:49 AM

Looks like latency, if shield block was properly up (even though your cleint thougth it was) you would have blocked damage as well as absorbing some. I really can't think of any other explanation for that.

I'd be more worried if it was a regular occurance.

goofax · 06/08/07, 8:58 AM

ok, it's probably latency then since i had a pretty high latency yesterday (~ 100 ms).
Thanks for these explanations Kavalier.

Branar · 06/08/07, 9:12 AM

Note that latency when you're moving a mob can also cause the game to think it's behind you, in which case shield block doesn't come into play (no idea if that's what happened there, just tossing it out).

Cuandoman · 06/08/07, 9:31 AM

Lrn to blk wit yer face liek a baer!

Latency IMO

Cel · 06/08/07, 9:34 AM

Originally Posted by goofax

ok, it's probably latency then since i had a pretty high latency yesterday (~ 100 ms).
Thanks for these explanations Kavalier.

I don't think 100ms is very high latency... .05 seconds to the server, then another .05 back isn't enough to make significant impact.

Erongg · 06/08/07, 9:45 AM

Note that latency when you're moving a mob can also cause the game to think it's behind you, in which case shield block doesn't come into play (no idea if that's what happened there, just tossing it out).

Something like this sounds right to me. He applied shield block a full two seconds before he got crushed, so it's not latency unless it was a really huge lag spike.

Eylirria · 06/08/07, 9:48 AM

Originally Posted by Cel

I don't think 100ms is very high latency... .05 seconds to the server, then another .05 back isn't enough to make significant impact.

It's not enough to make consistant impact, but well within the realm of possibilities for causing the occasional issue, which seems to be the case.

pS: You need 100% avoidance, yes, but remember you have -0.6% chance to be missed, -0.6% parry/dodge/block versus a 73. So you'd need ~102.4% avoidance on your character sheet. (This assuming it's not a DW mob, and that the tank has +0 weapon skill)

Zamaar · 06/08/07, 9:51 AM

Yea, I really doubt it's latency, probably positioning was fucked up because you see him NOT blocking the attack that ate through the shield (it usually goes xxxx absorbed, xxx blocked) so you probably were facing the wrong direction, iirc a'lar charges around if I'm not wrong (I only read about it, never done it) mobs position seems to be kinda weird after they charge, but it's the only explanation that seems likely...

p.s. really liked your idea of key bindings for tanking abilites

• Chicken · 06/08/07, 10:01 AM

Originally Posted by Eylirria

pS: You need 100% avoidance, yes, but remember you have -0.6% chance to be missed, -0.6% parry/dodge/block versus a 73. So you'd need ~102.4% avoidance on your character sheet. (This assuming it's not a DW mob, and that the tank has +0 weapon skill)

A Prot spec Warrior is already over that just by being crit immune and having talents and nothing else by quite a bit when Shield Block is up, so that's not an issue. Base a Prot Warrior will have ~4% dodge, 10% Parry, 10% block, 5% chance to be missed. Or 29% avoidance, Defense adds another 22.4%, and Shield Block adds 75%.

zork · 06/08/07, 10:02 AM

Originally Posted by goofax

According to the combat table, we all agree that we need ~100% avoidance (this includes Parry, Dodge and Block) to negate crushing blows. Correct me if i'm wrong.
However, yesterday while tanking Al'ar i got crushed through shield block.

Probably through latency you where not facing A'lar and got 2 hits from the side or back.

If you look closely at the screenshot you will notice that you got a normal hit before the crushing. So it was probably a lag-produced positioning problem.

p.s. Are you a key-turner? If I look at your keybings it leads me to supect that you turn with keys, not with mouse. That can be a problem.

dukes · 06/08/07, 10:13 AM

Al'ar's hitbox is pretty screwed really - if it was any other boss I'd say that it being behind you wouldn't be an issue, but as it is Al'ar it could well be the problem here.

Roywyn · 06/08/07, 10:32 AM

Ever since one of our rogues blocked a melee attack in Zul'Gurub (partially blocked 7 damage, fits as it's the block value you gain from 140-160 strength, a typical ZG level rogue value), I just accepted that sometimes glitches happen that shouldn't happen nor can be explained.

Did that happen several times, or was that just a one-time incident? If so, it might have been a glitch like that.

(No, I don't have a link to the screenie of the block anymore. And I can't force you to believe things you don't want to believe anyway

)

Dots · 06/08/07, 11:43 AM

Originally Posted by dukes

Al'ar's hitbox is pretty screwed really - if it was any other boss I'd say that it being behind you wouldn't be an issue, but as it is Al'ar it could well be the problem here.

What dukes said, Al'ar has a horrible hitbox and he tends to move around a lot in p2. You were most likely not facing him on the server and got crushed from the side/back.