darkInertia

Question about Hydross-type bosses:

Can they crush? I do believe they can crit (at least the adds have crit me before).

 

• stabbymcgee

If I remember correctly, as of a few patches ago they removed the ability of Hydross doing crushings.

[16:26:07] <falk|hiding> there needs to be a way to buy WSG rep though
[16:26:21] <falk|hiding> atm it's like stabbing my penis with a rusty knife

 

Illundai

That's correct, was hotfixed sometime before 2.1. Hydross can crit, but he cannot crush.

 

• Nite_Moogle

Thanks, I've added that information.

[Carebare]: I'd rather not fit through doorways than be a troll

 

roy7

I'd like to suggest you update the hunter ranged miss info to 9% based on:

[Rogue/Warrior] Weapon Skill Adjustment Discussion

instead of the older number. You link this post on the 1H/Shield/2H etc comments, but the post is actually about ranged attacks specifically. May want to move the link down to the ranged section.

Also, scorpid poison scaling with spell damage for hunters was nerfed in in 2.2 and no longer has the massive advantages it used to. The days of scorpid pet dominance seem to be at an end. You may want to remove the mention of scorpids.

Thanks for maintaining the summary page!

 

PSGarak

As is probably obvious, theorycraft needs to be update to reflect Expertise. Quick rundown on what's been discussed so far, see relevant for details:
Rating -> expertise at the same ratio rating -> weapon skill previously, expertise -> reduction at 1/4% dodge/parry reduction per point, we're sitting on a 1k data set from a friendly druid that seems to indicate it's working properly on parries (unlike weapon skill?) and that yes, they do get turned into hits, not misses.
Melee dps classes that are not 41 combat rogues need 23 (we assume) expertise rating to cap on bosses. Point-for-point (from the back) it's about as good as hit rating. It's twice as good as hit for tank threat generation, and even better for pushing parry-gibs off the table.

Floor values for dodge/parry vs expertise are not known to exist, the 23 value still needs empirical testing.

 

Eylirria

Has any testing been done with the new Devastate regarding it's new threat numbers?

 

• Nite_Moogle

Let's not put the cart before the horse here guys. This is intended to be information for the live servers, not things that are more than likely over a month off yet.

[Carebare]: I'd rather not fit through doorways than be a troll

 

Benegesserit

The discussion is still something more worth mulling over, though. With major changes like the 5SR combat regen talents getting doubled, the devestate change, ret pally viability, etc. it's still worth considering the info as current. As with any math affected by a patch, the OP can always be edited to account for new changes.

Choosing how to gear your class/spec could be affected by the 2.3 changes and it would be a shame to leave people misinformed about the benefit of choosing this piece in 2.2 but this piece in 2.3 instead.

 

• Nite_Moogle

That's what other threads are for. If people aren't aware enough to realize that there's a test realm up and things are changing, they aren't reading this thread. By the time 2.3 goes live there will be lots of new updates to put in, but telling somebody that something on test sucks right now when Blizzard has flat out said that 2.3 will be up for at least a month is not something I'm going to do when there's so much time to change it. Already we've seen Weapon Mastery for warriors go from a craptacular skill to an outstanding one. There is way too much change left to call things as gospel this early.

[Carebare]: I'd rather not fit through doorways than be a troll

 

roy7

WFIW, my suggested changed were related to the live 2.2 version.

 

Tuatha

In the OP under the Melee section you state:
"- The formula for determining hasted weapon speed is:
Hasted Speed = Weapon Speed / ( (1+(Haste 1 %/100)) * (1+Haste 2 %/100)) * (1+(((Haste Rating 1 + Haste Rating 2 + ... )/100)/15.76)))"

The parenthesis are unbalanced in this formula (8 open, 9 close). It should look like:

Hasted Speed = Weapon Speed / (((1+(Haste 1 %/100)) * (1+Haste 2 %/100)) * (1+(((Haste Rating 1 + Haste Rating 2 + ... )/100)/15.76)))

 

◊ Lactose

Not quite. This is how it should be, with colors added and parenthesis bolded to show better:

Hasted Speed = Weapon Speed / ((1+(Haste 1 %/100)) * (1+(Haste 2 %/100)) * (1+(((Haste Rating 1 + Haste Rating 2 + ... )/100)/15.76)))

Look, Lactose, we'd rather you didn't eradicate the whole human race.
- Sam & Max

 

Tuatha

Same thing. A*(B*C)=(A*B)*C
Still, more consistent placement of the parenthesis ftw. Use Lactose's, if you would.

 

• songster

Any reason why it's put as (1+(((Haste Rating 1 + Haste Rating 2 + ... )/100)/15.76)) when you could eliminate a set of brackets and put (1+((Haste Rating 1 + Haste Rating 2 + ... )/1576))

 

Margot

I realize that this is not live yet, but what will the amount of expertise to reduce a 73's dodge/parry to zilch be?

 

◊ Vulajin

It is not known exactly. Best estimate we have so far for reducing dodge chance to 0% is 26 (103 rating). Parry chance of raid bosses is much higher, you're not likely to be able to reduce that to 0% any time soon.

 

Borodin

I would have thought 22.4 Expertise assuming Bosses have 5.6% Dodge.
Approximately double this for Parry as it seems 11.2% could be a reasonable estimate for the Parry rate for many Bosses (many reports of them having 10-15% Parry).

But then we thought the Miss chance was 8.6% and it turned out to be a flat 9%...

 

Dontmindme

My best guess is 6.5% dodge for bosses and 13% for parry. This is based on the discovery that bosses with channeled casting do not seem to dodge or parry during the cast. Thus, WWS reports will be generally understating the result. I've seen quite a few with dodge rates around 6% and parry rates around 12% and if you round those up a bit, you get the above.

 

Lokthra

I haven't finished all the math on this yet, but so far I have gotten some pretty good info.

If you raid with 3 or more rogues/fury wars, and also utilize multiple hunters, it is worth it to have the rogues respec to 2/2 blade twisting. If a target is dazed 100% of the time, every hunter in the raid will gain about a 5-6% (I'm still working on the math for more exact numbers) overall damage boost. This also helps warriors with heroic strike, but to a lesser extent.

When I get more data and finish all my numbers I will post with more exact numbers, but so far (working with only 2 nights of data) I'm getting a picture of a pretty good dps boost for all hunters, while a very very small sacrifice for rogues.

 

galzohar

Problem is that most targets that matter are actaully immune to daze afaik.

 

Lokthra

Oh wow, I read the Daze mechanics and bosses thread wrong. I was going off drysc's post that i got from bluetracker about blade twisting giving rogues enhanced raid viability, and a 3 a.m. reading of the Daze mechanics and bosses thread.

 

galzohar

At first I thought you were flaming me, so I searched for the thread and found out you really did mean you read it wrong

 

Akheva

Can this treat please be updated to reflect 2.3 changes.. thank you

 

• Nite_Moogle

When I get some time, this thread is going to get shitcanned and I'll repost with the 2.3 changes so the title is updated correctly. There are a couple of things I am waiting to see on live servers (mostly regarding expertise) but the majority of the thread should still be accurate.

[Carebare]: I'd rather not fit through doorways than be a troll