[Mechanic Primer] - Haste - How it works, and what that means. - Page 2

sp00n · 06/10/07, 4:41 PM

Originally Posted by Lactose

Wouldn't this be added multiplicatively, instead of additively?
I.e. 30 & 320 converted to haste percentages seperately (30/21 & 320/21) and the applied as all other hastes?

As far as my knowledge goes, haste rating is first summed up and then converted into a %, whereas "real" hasting (i.e. no haste rating) is directly affecting the % value.
For a rogue, this would be Slice'n'Dice*Blade Flurry*((Haste Rating 1 + Haste Rating 2 + etc)/21).

galzohar · 06/10/07, 4:50 PM

Even with an internal cooldown you still get more procs over time with haste.
The way to calculate the procs per timeframe with an item that has a cooldown (T) and an procs per time (A) before taking cooldown into account:
procs over time = 1 / (1/A + T)
This is pretty basic statistics relying on very little rounding.
of course the time units have to match (as in, if A is procs per second T must also be in seconds and the procs over time will give procs per second).
Of course this formula shows that anything that increases procs over time before taking cooldown into account has quite low effect on the final procs over time compared to the increase in final procs over time on items without internal cooldown when the basic procs over time is increased.
Taking into account overlapping procs also makes some difference, although probably much smaller than the cooldown effect, and definitely a LOT harder to calculate, since procs with cooldowns will never overlap with any items I know in game.

crimsonsentinel · 06/10/07, 5:15 PM

I've always been of the opinion that the biggest benefactors of haste will be healers. It simply allows for much better reactive healing which in turn greatly increases the margin of error for any fight in which the tank is taking high burst. Basically, it allows healers to have many more options instead of the standard chain cast mid-rank large heal.

This is especially true for paladins, since spell haste on holy light is applied before the light's grace buff (correct me if I'm wrong), so paladins that stack spell haste can easily get holy light to 1.5 second cast time. It also helps druids since healing touch is so slow that druid often get very high overheal numbers if spamming it.

Lum · 06/10/07, 5:25 PM

Originally Posted by Dirich

For sure there are classes which benefits more than shadowpriests from spell haste, and probably +damage is still the best stat to agument their dps, but still, i wouldn't say that spell haste gives small returns to shadowpriests.

For what concern affliction warlocks, having 4 dots (2 instant, 2 with 1.5 casting time) plus an instant curse, probably 2/2 Nightfall, and some time spent using Life Tap / Dark Pact, probably the effect of spellhaste is a lot less noticable. I agree on this point.

P.S. Assumptions
1) Haste do not affect GCD (otherway MB and VT would be also positively affected, resulting in only VE, SWD and SWP not being affected by spellhaste)
2) Shadowpriest goes all out, otherway it would be more MF and less SWD/MB, meaning more time spent channeling (so more benefit from spellhaste)

Agreed. A Shadow Priest probably isn't going to see huge returns on Spell Haste, but the biggest point is that you can squeeze in more Mind Flays in between DoT Recast. Heroism adds a huge spike to Shadow Priest DPS, but small amounts of Haste Rating from gear are more likely to wreck a good DPS cycle than anything else.

Any Shadow Priest that's been playing for a while knows about the "how many MF's can I fit in between MB cooldowns", and messing with talent points in Imp. MB. Either you're wasting MF ticks hitting MB as soon as it's on cooldown, or you're leaving MB off-cooldown waiting for another full MF. It's a substantial amount(50%?) to get a Shadow Priest to run into the global cooldown spamming MF, but it's probably a lesser amount to make cycling spells a problem.

Edit: Sort of a tangent, but Haste Rating could make a Smite-heavy build very interesting, given that there's two more spells with no cooldown to cast.

crimsonsentinel · 06/10/07, 6:05 PM

Spell haste affects only 1 spell in a shadow priest's lineup: Mind flay, and that one spell usually only comprises of around 25-35% of a shadow priest's damage. It has no effect on his dots, nor on his nukes, so point for point, +dmg is vastly superior to spell haste for shadow priests. Until something comes out that scales DOT damage (which, given what the devs have stated about DOTs, is unlikely) other than +dmg, shadow priests will stay a one stat class.

• Chicken · 06/10/07, 6:25 PM

Originally Posted by crimsonsentinel

Spell haste affects only 1 spell in a shadow priest's lineup: Mind flay, and that one spell usually only comprises of around 25-35% of a shadow priest's damage. It has no effect on his dots, nor on his nukes, so point for point, +dmg is vastly superior to spell haste for shadow priests. Until something comes out that scales DOT damage (which, given what the devs have stated about DOTs, is unlikely) other than +dmg, shadow priests will stay a one stat class.

It also has a minor effect on Vampiric Touch, but I doubt that'll be noticeable at any point in time.

Kalman · 06/10/07, 7:20 PM

Originally Posted by Chicken

It also has a minor effect on Vampiric Touch, but I doubt that'll be noticeable at any point in time.

Yes and no; it shortens VT, but since it drops it below the GCD, it isn't meaningful.

Voley · 06/11/07, 2:33 AM

Originally Posted by Kyth

For completenesses sake: Dots without cast time gain nothing from haste.

fixed for you

Anias · 06/12/07, 11:29 AM

Changelog:

Updated Caster Section.

Added note about casted attacks which reset swing timer (primarily slam) to mellee section

Updated closing thoughts to be more accurate.

If there's something I'm missing, lmk.

Shaker · 06/12/07, 12:15 PM

Originally Posted by Kalman

edit: From what I've seen, haste *effects* (those effects that have a fixed % boost) reduce the GCD. Haste *rating* does not.

Does this include BF and SnD? er, I mean do they reduce the GCD?

Lsadyen · 06/12/07, 1:02 PM

I can't say I've ever done specific testing, but in all my time of dpsing as a rogue (which has been longer then I care to recount) I would notice if BF/S&D reduced the global cool down. The answer is no, they do not. Much like the previously listed hunter abilities.

heel · 06/12/07, 1:34 PM

Haste rating helps combat latency. Yeah, in a perfect world, 1.5s spells would get no benefit from it. The way things actually work, though, every non-instant spell receives some benefit from haste rating until you get enough that you can cast two 1.5s spells in a 3s period. I have the spell haste ring from BT, and it is certainly having an effect. It's till not enough of an effect, however, to recoup the one global cooldown in ten that I lose to latency. Far from being bad for a Shadow priest, I think spell haste might be one of our absolute best stats - on the level with +damage - if a reasonable amount of it can get you to the point where you can squeeze in an extra spell during a DoT rotation.

Litigious · 06/12/07, 6:11 PM

I just recently asked and got answers for some haste-related hunter questions in another forum. Here's a summary of that in case it's useful:

Q: What does haste affect (by shot type)?
auto cast (.5 sec): no
auto cooldown (wpn speed): yes
steady cast (1.5 sec): yes
steady CD (0): n/a
arcance cast (0): n/a
arcane CD (6 or 5 seconds): no
multi cast (.5 sec): no
multi CD (10 sec): no

Q: Does haste reduce +attack-power contribution to damage proportionally to reduced shot interval?
A: no.

For auto-, aimed and multishot, added shot damage per point of AP is a function of weapon speed. But this value does not change when haste effects reduce the shot interval.

gotroot · 06/13/07, 4:57 PM

Additionally, melee using instant attacks and "on next attack" specials only do not push back their swing timer. As long as you limit yourself to those type of attacks, haste provides full value (or better) for each additional point.

Does Backstab or Sinister Strike push back the swing timer? Is it more effective to drink a Haste pot and auto attack for the duration of the buff, or drink the haste pot and spam my yellow attacks?

Caligula · 06/13/07, 5:03 PM

Backstab and SS, being instant, do not push back the swing timer. Just like Heroic strike, MS, Bloodthirst, Stormstrike, etc. do not, but Slam does.