Lsadyen

I can't say I've ever done specific testing, but in all my time of dpsing as a rogue (which has been longer then I care to recount) I would notice if BF/S&D reduced the global cool down. The answer is no, they do not. Much like the previously listed hunter abilities.

 

heel

Haste rating helps combat latency. Yeah, in a perfect world, 1.5s spells would get no benefit from it. The way things actually work, though, every non-instant spell receives some benefit from haste rating until you get enough that you can cast two 1.5s spells in a 3s period. I have the spell haste ring from BT, and it is certainly having an effect. It's till not enough of an effect, however, to recoup the one global cooldown in ten that I lose to latency. Far from being bad for a Shadow priest, I think spell haste might be one of our absolute best stats - on the level with +damage - if a reasonable amount of it can get you to the point where you can squeeze in an extra spell during a DoT rotation.

 

Litigious

I just recently asked and got answers for some haste-related hunter questions in another forum. Here's a summary of that in case it's useful:

Q: What does haste affect (by shot type)?
auto cast (.5 sec): no
auto cooldown (wpn speed): yes
steady cast (1.5 sec): yes
steady CD (0): n/a
arcance cast (0): n/a
arcane CD (6 or 5 seconds): no
multi cast (.5 sec): no
multi CD (10 sec): no

Q: Does haste reduce +attack-power contribution to damage proportionally to reduced shot interval?
A: no.

For auto-, aimed and multishot, added shot damage per point of AP is a function of weapon speed. But this value does not change when haste effects reduce the shot interval.

 

gotroot

Does Backstab or Sinister Strike push back the swing timer? Is it more effective to drink a Haste pot and auto attack for the duration of the buff, or drink the haste pot and spam my yellow attacks?

 

Caligula

Backstab and SS, being instant, do not push back the swing timer. Just like Heroic strike, MS, Bloodthirst, Stormstrike, etc. do not, but Slam does.

 

Noxtenebrae

Is the effect of haste on the Slam cast time calculated based on your personal Slam cast time determined by talents (0.5 seconds with 2 points and 1 second with 1 point), or does it calculate based on the base cast time of 1.5 seconds regardless of talents?

 

• Binkenstein

To recap the math side of things:

21 Haste Rating -> 1% Haste (be it melee, ranged or spell).
Haste increases caster dps by dividing Old Cast Time by New Cast time, while also increasing mana use by the same amount (efficiency/dpm stays the same)

 

Noxtenebrae

According to http://blue.cardplace.com/newcache/us/106616902.htm, melee haste rating is 10.5:1 and spell haste rating is 21:1.

Is there any information I am unaware of that would contradict this?

 

Zotti

Q: is Spell haste calculatet on base-casttime or talented casttime ?

 

• Binkenstein

Talented.

 

Northerner

Spell haste certainly appears to be based on actual casting time or at the very least that is consistent with every other effect that I can think of. Talents that reduce spell casting time have precedence over all other modifiers to the best of my knowledge.

I do not have access to a testing environment that can produce meaningful data on this however. Between variable latency and a lack of spell haste (worn) items to get a nice dataset the needed sample size would just be obscenely large. I also only have so much faith in the combatlog's priority and when we are looking at fractions of a second, I don't trust it very much at all.

Although I'd be shocked if it were otherwise, this might be worth looking at again once people are sporting quite high haste ratings. For now I'll assume it is post-talented however.

 

• Snowy

Spell tooltips reflect the amount of haste you have, so this is easy to check with a shaman lusting you.

Paladin: Pyla
Mage: Pylah

 

Freyalis

I Wouldn't post this if i was able to get into game and verify it myself but..

Current speculation is that there is a soft cap of 1.0s on swing speeds for weapons despite the fact that the char sheet shows the correct theoretical speed.

This should be quite easily provable right or wrong with a /combatlog using a fast weapon with haste procs. Preferably proof of a weapon swinging twice within a 0.8s window to discount latency.

 

Zurgat

I'm at work, so sadly can't test it either.
But, I "highly" doubt there is a 1s swing speed cap.
Any rogue using [Searing Sunblade], [Warp Splinter's Thorn] or a similar speed dagger wound instantly have run into this cap if they activated Slice & Dice.

-= Random Ravings - RSS Feed =- Rogue and Hunter stuff here. As well as guides to get you trough your spare time.

 

dukes

Wow Web Stats

Somehow I doubt there's a cap.

From one points in the gurtogg files:

Clearly shows a ~0.65 second gap between offhand hits.

 

Septus

Any thoughts on haste rating for feral druids? It would seem like a pretty poor stat, given the low % of the whole that our white damage does, but I don't know if I'm missing something.

 

sp00n

If there's a cap (which I highly doubt), it certainly isn't at 1.0s speed.
As Zurgat pointed out, I use the [Searing Sunblade] as my offhand, and already slice and dice puts it to 1.0 speed.
SnD combined with blade flurry makes it 0.83.

 

Benita

Is spellhaste calculated last or first of somewhere in between?

Like lets say you have a spell like regrowth Healing Touch, 3.5sec cast time. A talent that reduces it by 0.5 sec and a proc that can reduce it for another 0.5 sec. If im equipping rating enough for 10% spellhaste now, does that mean its 0.35 sec faster or 0.3 and if it procs is it still 0.35 or 0.3 or 0.25?
I cant seem to find the answer to that question anywhere.

Thanks in advance.

 

axid

sigh @ haste rating not affectin DOTs.

Blizz was saying it would be too powerful if it affected DOTs, but how on earth would taking a sec or 2 off an 18 or 24 sec DOT quantify it as too strong?

Pretty sure they couldve just calculated a fair amt of making DOTs tick faster even if it was a tiny effect, so that it would work.

I also sometimes wonder if they're trying to put too much mechanics into game just to keep competitive with other MMORPGs.

 

Fant

Am I missing something, or rather what am I missing here?

The effect grows exponentially to the point where you hit 100% meele haste (1050 haste rating) and with no cap on white attacks you would kill anything instantly (or rather crash the server properly) as you would make an infinite amount of attacks.

I.e. any weapon would do:
Haste / Increase of the base dps of the weapon / relative speed of a 2.7 weapon
0% / 0% / 2.7s
10% / 11,11% / 2.43s
20% / 25% / 2.16s
30% / 42,86% / 1.89s
40% / 66.67% / 1.62s
50% / 100% / 1.35s
60% / 150% / 1.08s
70% / 233,33% / 0.81s
80% / 400% / 0.54s
90% / 900% / 0.27s
99% / 9900% / 0.03s

Currently its possible to get way up there by stacking items with either equipped haste or haste procs. [Dragonstrike] proc + [Dragonspine Trophy] alone adds up to over ~51% haste if both is active at the same time...

Is this right?

 

• Chicken

You're looking at it wrong, Haste basically works like a percentage increase to the amount of attacks you do in a given time spam, not a percentage reduction in the amount of time between swings. That is, if you have 100% haste, you would be doing twice the attacks in a given time span than if you had no haste at all. 200% haste would be thrice the attacks, etc.

Obviously it does end up reducing the time between swings, but the percentage increase WoW lists is basically the amount of extra attacks you're doing in any equal time span compared to if you had no haste at all.

 

RPZip

Haste is calculated as Old Weapon Speed / 1.Haste% = New Weapon Speed. 100% haste will give you double the attacks in a given time span, not server-crashing instant kills. People ask this a fair amount about Flurry, so I'll use that as an example.

Let's say you had a 4.0 speed weapon, because I like math to be neat. With 25% haste under what a lot of people assume is the correct system (i.e. Old Weapon Speed * (1 - Haste%) = New Weapon Speed), that would put you at 3.0.

4.0 Speed = 15 Swings Per Minute
3.0 Speed = 20 Swings Per Minute
20 Swings / 15 Swings = 33% Increase To Swings from 25% Haste

Now, using the correct system, 4.0 / 1.25 = 3.2

4.0 Speed = 15 Swings Per Minute
3.2 Speed = 18.75
18.75 Swings / 15 Swings = 25% Increase To Swings from 25% Haste

 

Ounce

I want to make sure I understand this right. In another thread pf posted that there were diminishing returns on haste rating:

Please go over this with me. As I understand it, the way that you calculate attack speed is (Attack speed modifierX)*(Attack Speed ModifierY)*(Attack Speed ModifierZ...)=Attack speed. Additive Haste rating simply composes one of these attack speed modifiers. The formula for haste rating is always 10.52 haste rating per 1% attack speed. Although it is additive within itself, it always is multiplied by your other attack speed buffs.

Given that a rogue keeps SnD up at all times, they have a base 130% attack speed. At 130% attack speed, 10.52 haste rating (1% haste increase) will make your attack speed (1.3)*(1.01)=131.3%. If you add 10.52 more haste rating during this time period, you will make your attack speed (1.3)*(1.02)=132.6% -- a direct 1% increase in attack speed. I don't mean to be obtuse, but I honestly don't see how haste rating has diminishing returns, unless I have the formula wrong.

 

The Grog

The greater your white damage %, the greater the effect of a point of haste rating. Before rage, of course. This means that haste is less effective on druids than other classes. However, since much of the T6 dps non-set items feature haste or armor pen you don't have a lot of choice. The band of devastation beats the ancestral ring of conquest due to sheer ilv rather than quality item design. At raid levels, 4000+ AP and 35% crit or better, haste should be beaten in total results only by agility for a feral. But then I believe in hit rating for a feral, or at least I haven't tracked down the flaw in my spreadsheet that makes it look good, so take it as you will

The most important thing to keep in mind about haste is that it scales perfectly. 10.5 haste rating is 1% more white damage at least. This holds true regardless of if you do 5 dps or 1500 dps. Heavy haste items look BETTER as the rest of your gear improves, as for a 50/50 white/yellow split at 1000 dps 10.5 haste will return 5 dps. At 1500, 10.5 haste will return 7.5 dps. Haste has no relative diminishing returns, and has a significant rate of increasing returns on a numerical basis. Add to this the amplifying effect it has on procs of all kinds.

Put simply? Get all the haste you can if you are melee. For casters I think the jury is still out.

Having watched the guild Maces rogue pop a haste potion and get heroism at the same time, seen double mongoose, dragonstrike haste, and trophy haste go up almost instantly and stay up, and then seen him post numbers on Vashj that were completely ridiculous, I believe in haste.

Armor pen I'm not so sure about.

 

Phlug

ok, i *think* my math is off here... but on the off-chance i am correct, i could use input!

haste, (to be simple, flurry) 25%

MH: 2.7 (dragonmaw)
OH: choice of 1.8 (prince dagger) or 2.7 (spiteblade)

now, flurry procs my dagger went from 1.8--->1.35 difference is .45
my Sword went from 2.7--->2.025 difference is .675

the sword got its speed reduced by MORE than the dagger for the same amount of haste,

stacking this with DST and mace procs, it seems as if the slow MH/slow OH will gain more than a slow MH/fast OH setup would?

is this correct or is 25% haste=25% more dmg no matter what speeds are?

if so, then wouldnt slow/slow warriors and all enhancement shaman benifit TONS more from a dagger rogue with +haste items? such as DST and the BT items

thanks in advance for the info!