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Old 06/13/07, 5:33 PM   #26
Disquette
doop doop de doooo
 
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Human Rogue
 
Sargeras
Originally Posted by Lujaar View Post
Think of the infamous 4xmainhand quad proc from before 2.1, but two hits instead of four.

I should be able to get a screenshot of it with a timestamped combat log in the next couple days.
Excellent, thanks much!

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...6766?page=3#41
Let me map a priority list out for you so that you can refer to it in the future:
1. Money 2. Money 3. PvE 4. Mages 5. Companion pets 6. PvP

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Old 06/13/07, 5:50 PM   #27
Lujaar
King Hippo
 
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Orc Death Knight
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Shalas View Post
That'd only be true if MH procs didn't stop OH procs. Over enough swings, the percent of procs that are from the MH will be equal to the percent of swings from the MH, but that doesn't mean that the number of procs is the same as if you didn't have an OH. Consider the extreme case: 10.0 speed MH, 0.1 speed OH. 1% of your swings will be from your MH, as will 1% of your WF procs. That doesn't change the fact that there's only a 4.08e-9% chance that a MH swing will result in a proc in this case.

Yeah, point taken, that definitely could have been worded better. My test demonstrates the ratio of MH:OH procs; it shows absolutely nothing about the ratio of MH procs:white MH swings. That's not what I meant and I can't figure out why the hell I wrote it that way.

The point of the test was to debunk the idea that MH proc rate suffers disproportionally to OH proc rate when dual-wielding with a fast offhand. I've seen more than one person say, "I barely see mainhand procs with wf5/wf5, just offhand," and I've usually seen that cited as the reason for avoiding fast offhands. That test was to debunk that particular explanation for slow offhands being better, not to debunk every explanation for slow offhands being better.

Sorry if that was unclear.

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Old 06/17/07, 2:01 AM   #28
Lujaar
King Hippo
 
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Orc Death Knight
 
Mal'Ganis
EDIT: Ignore this.

Last edited by Lujaar : 06/18/07 at 12:44 AM.

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Old 06/17/07, 2:27 AM   #29
Nite_Moogle
I prefer the term treasure hunting
 
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Tauren Shaman
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Lujaar View Post
Screenshots of timestamped double MH procs (using the Yule combat log replacement):

Part 1 - Lujaar vs the Reptilian Horror

(expanded combat log here)

Part 2 - Lujaar vs the Giant Space Moth (includes expanded combat log)


It took me just a couple of minutes to get 2 of these, not counting a couple where I hit Print Screen a second too late or something. I see double MH and double OH procs constantly.
I don't get it. You posted completely normal and expected behavior. Windfury procs 2 attacks every time. That's kind of the point.

Originally Posted by CheshireCat
Eh, my nostalgia goggles aren't as good as they used to be.

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Old 06/18/07, 12:37 AM   #30
Lujaar
King Hippo
 
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Orc Death Knight
 
Mal'Ganis
Wow, you're right, I'm retarded. This is expected behavior. I think I somehow confused myself with a variety of SCT and combat-log replacements designed to show WF differently than the default UI. I'm used to seeing WF as a single combined figure, and I didn't have those mods running when I took these screenshots. I remember even with that mod setup seeing WF procs work differently than expected, but I'd have to update and reinstall them to figure out what I was seeing previously. Because I'm not exactly logging every single thing I do I can't remember what I've seen when, and I've changed around mods that relate to WF a lot lately.

EDIT: Anecdotal I know, but every time I look at it over an extended period of time I'll eventually see WF do something strange - single procs under the default UI, 1x MH 1x OH procs, 4xMH and 1xMH/3xOH procs back in 2.0 with 5/4, and that combined with the amount of times I've changed my mods trying to see what's going on better I'm having a hard time distinguishing between expected behavior, combat log errors, and genuine strangeness.

Regardless, yeah, these screenshots are meaningless, they're just screenshots of WF doing what Blizzard says it does. I'm withdrawing from this discussion until I can figure out what I was seeing with my previous set of mods.

Last edited by Lujaar : 06/18/07 at 1:05 AM.

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Old 06/18/07, 2:28 AM   #31
Groninga
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Shaman
 
Terenas (EU)
I've done some testing with both in-game weapons & buffs as well as Disquettes excellent attempt to model DPS & flurry/WF behaviour. I initially posted this in on our realm boards but figured it might fit here as well.

I ran 10 runs for each of the combo's with Disquettes tool and the tested the lowest & highest combo in the real world to see the % difference between the weapons DPS. In-game results were close enough for me to accept the results from the model.

Base Settings:
Crit: 22%
+ hit: 16.7%
AP: 1340 (unbuffed & without rage)
There are a lot more settings like glancing, mitigation, spel crit etc but it's the order thats important not the actual DPS.

Weapons modeled:
1. Dragonmaw
2. Gladiator's Hacker
3. High Warlord's Pummeler
4. Searing Sunblade
5. Runic Hammer

Weapons MH buff OH buff DPS
1 & 2 WF & WF 567
1 & 3 WF & WF 590
1 & 4 WF & FT 545
1 & 2 WF & FT 553
1 & 2 WF & RB 507
1 & 3 WF & FT 554
1 & 5 WF & WF 596

Conclusions: RB is crap, FT is reasonable and WF on a slow weapon like High Warlord's Pummeler will outdps faster weapons with a lot more DPS like Gladiator's Hacker. While the Runic Hammer does give the highest DPS, you might just wanna pick up the High Warlord's Pummeler which is considerable easier to get.
The ideal weapon that is still obtainable for most, according to my math the Gladiator's Cleaver with WF produces 602 DPS and therefor is the winner in this matchup.

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