Disclaimer: Sorry if I should have tagged this on to one of the spreadsheet discussions. I don't really feel it is on topic and definitely feels weird to just add it on for me.
I posted this in the WoW Rogue forums, but my thread just turned in to a flame war between a lvl 2 druid and another rogue. Cool.
The other night I replaced my T4 gloves and lost my 2pc bonus. My cycles have had a lot of slack lately, which I like, and I figured it wasn't going to be a huge deal. I looked on Pf's (or mih whaetev) spreadsheet and I seem to take around an 8-10dps loss from the change from T4 to T5. Obviously this isn't do to stats, due to the stats clearly being superior on the T5. In contrast to this, on Aldriana's spreadsheet the T5 gloves are ranked higher.
I decided to get them enchanted and give them a go tonight. I definitely lost the slack I previously had, which I liked a lot for feint and blade flurry. My energy efficiency over time seems to have gone down and my SnD uptime isn't what it was with the 2pc obviously.
After eyeing this in one night of raiding I can't determine how much of a loss it is, but I definitely feel that the stat (ignoring the 2pc) gains were pretty nice. Tight cycles aren't a problem really, as long as I'm not losing a crap load of SnD uptime each rotation.
What do you guys think? How do you value the extra 3seconds on SnD?
Thanks for the response! Yeah, I definitely enjoyed it. I'm thinking about picking up either T4 bp, even though I was holding out for Karathress BP... the one time it dropped (would have got it) my internet was being switched to my name and they were late turning it on..like 4hrs late rofl. That our I could pick up T4 legs, but I lose 20 something hit =/
Oh, something I hadn't mentioned, the ability to do cut cycles were nice as well.
The bonus is added indeed before talents. 3/3 talented SnD is 30.45 secs atm, and with the 2pt bonus of netherblade 5 point SnD lasts massive 34.80 secs
3/3 talents give 45% lenght for Snd
3/3 talents with 2/5 NB is 65,7%+! just 20% more extra duration from that bonus when talented, its just godly bonus. Basicly its worth 1 xtra SnD talent point, and every pve rogue knows how good 3/3 Snd actually is.
What comes to breaking it, seeing tier 5 stats arent anything special pure PVE-dps wise imo, 1st time to think breaking it is 4 part bonus of t5. Which basicly is new relentless strikes ( currently around biggest dps boost single talent rogues have ). NB bonus for combat dagger rogue is great, getting 2-3pt rupture & 5 pt SnD off during the 34.8 seconds. I havent played Sinister strike based combat spec since i got 2 NB pieces so not sure what kinda cycles one would do with swords.
Havent made any special calculations for this either, but as combad dagger im not gonna replace 2 part t4 before 4/5 t6 mostlikely, just imo too good bonus to let go. All the time you got to get cycles running straight away even after 1 point SnD is so massive, since getting into cycle is 1 of most important thingies when playing daggers. With Swords this is so much easier.
For tier-item slots maybe T5 helm, T4gloves & legs, Karathress chest and hydros / chess shoulders would be the most optimal to go, or maybe get t5 shoulders if you feel the evis bonus is worth it over rupture, havent calculated it myself since i dont use evis nor aim for t5 that much.
As summary: That bonus rocks the socks, those spread sheets dont calculate the cycles you can get out with that bonus. Keep it while you still can, i will!
I could see it having potential in an xs5r cycle, but apart from that it seems like something you could do without.
Suppose you generally performed 5 point SnDs and could save up spare energy and combo points indefinitely. With the 2-piece bonus you now only need to SnD once every 34.8 seconds, rather than once every 30.5 seconds. Every 213 seconds you have 5 spare combo points you can spend on eviscerate instead for ~1500 damage or 7 dps. This comes at a small energy cost of 0.047 per second, which comes out to around 1.5 dps on my spreadsheet.
As to whether such an approximation is meaningful in a real situation, who knows? In practice you would have incremental changes to your cycles, which would be much harder to model accurately.
It's very rough @ first, but you get used to it, especially with the massive increase in stats etc to come with it. A 4snd/5e cycle with 2pc T5 and 4pc T5 is an amazing DPS cycle, easily more DPS, perhaps even without the 4pc.
Thanks for the responses guys. I already have the the t5 gloves, so at this point I'm considering picking up the t4 legs to replace my skulker's. I'll take a loss in hit, but I should be able to replace that elsewhere. I lose 21 hit or so going from skulker' to t4 legs and I gain quite a bit of SnD uptime. I can throw Romulo's back in over WSC and then Karathress BP over my Conniver if the bastard ever drops!
I def. appreciate the responses. Getting a few mixed opinions which is good. Even if I am having to switch my cycle up a bit, if I'm able to effectively complete a 3s/5s/5r with out much trouble am I really losing that much dps? My Snd uptime seems ok, it is just a tight cycle.
Most of the differing opinions here are on the basis of your cycles... while we are on the subject what cycles do you guys use?
I was trying to use cut cycles or a 3s/5s/5r when I had the 2pc and used the slack energy for other thing. Now that I am with out the 2pc bonus I am using 3s/5s/5r entirely.
Some of the main things with cycles that intrigued me were the talk of future cycles with the t5 bonuses... Has anybody started looking at the math for Xs/5e with the t5 2pc/4pc ?
Sorry to rehash an old topic, but I'm in the exact same position here. My gear is pretty good and I don't really have any large upgrades to save for anymore, so I'm starting on Tier 5. I don't want to replace my bloodsea vest, and breaking 2pc Wastwalker (shoulders/pants) and 2pc Netherblade (head/gloves) is really gonna hurt. I was thinking going T4 pants and shoulders with T5 gloves and helmet, but I'm wondering if it's worth it to move right on up to 4 peice T5 with the brigande vest. Like everyone's been saying, the extra time is amazing and it's the first time in PVE since ages where I feel I have 'extra' combo points to play with.
But if the 4/5 tier 5 is as good as I've been reading, I suppose that's a replacement right there, as it is in itself free energy. Only issue is, with 4/5 Tier 5 my hit drops down into the freakin gutter and there isn't much I can do to get it back up. Which brings me back to 2/5 + 2/5....
ARGH descisions :P