I've been Afflic spec for the majority of my raiding career - but I've been bouncing around between a couple of different builds for the last few weeks to see the DPS output/fun factor of each.

I tried 0/21/40 very, very early in my raiding history, when we were still starting Kara with some decent blue gear, so I only have that to go on. I remember some large numbers and very nice damage output, but obviously my gear now and my damage output with Affliction completely dwarfs that. I'm keen to try it again for comparison though - but I'm wondering if doing so with my current gear would accurately reflect what this build is capable of.

My gear focuses on Affliction stats at the moment: 13% crit from gear, 12.5% hit from gear and just below 1200 shadow dmg with Fel armor. Now I've read a couple of threads stating that Destruction needs about 20% crit without talents to really shine, while other threads (and most dps spreadsheets) suggest +hit as being far more valuable than crit until you're hit capped for destro. Most of my gear (frozen shadoweave, etc) is gemmed for +hit/dmg gems, or pure +dmg gems. I have some epic crit gear I can sub in for certain slots to raise crit from gear to around 18% or so, but +dmg and hit would take a knock. We are about to down Mag and enter SSC for the first time - so that's the kind of gear I have access to at the moment if it helps.

Anyway, in summary - would a straight spec switch with the same gear give me an accurate view of this build as compared with Affliction (at my current gear level)? Would I need more crit? More hit? Is it a completely pointless comparison without 20% unbuffed crit and/or more destro-favoring gear?

Thanks in advance for the help.

We have 3 Affliction locks (myself included), 1 destro and one bizarre hybrid who still manages to keep his dps high, so the ISB uptime, while maybe not optimal, is sufficient for now. My question is more along the lines of personal DPS and whether or not I could compare the two specs fairly without a completely different set of gear. While currently I already top the meters in any fight where I'm not on add control / any other duty, I was wondering if a Destruction spec could push out even more.

Your reply did confirm what I thought though, that I don't have the gear requirement for Destruction to accurately compare it to Affliction at the moment. I could re-gem and re-enchant my gear and probably reach a decent compromise between crit, hit and spell damage, but that would defeat the purpose of an easy and non-costly DPS comparison. Perhaps once we're well-established in SSC and the cloth drops with plenty of hit and crit are in my grubby paws, I can give it a try.

By the way - is there an "acceptable" level of +hit for Destruction (boss fights) at which point you can concentrate more on dmg/crit, or do Destruction builds also aim to cap out +hit first?

Cap hit first. then you choose if you want max dps, or max ISB uptime/Crits.

Destro is nice if the healers have the mana to keep you regen'd and on fights where you don't move much at all. You'll most certainly shine on trash, Morogrim, Karathress and maybe Leo if you can maintain your threat. Otherwise, our destro warlock can manage some good dps but it's far from what he used to achieve when he was Affliction. You can argue that it's because he still needs to update some gear in light of the spec but he does meet the requirements/minimums I mentioned earlier. You could also argue (comparing his affliction > destro) that his dps loss is re-gained or even improved by ISB from the other 3 warlocks and 2 shadow priests.

As for hit, he's using the hit from the FSW (socket bonus') and Ss combo. I haven't heard him complain about resist streaks yet. I would assume, as a minimum, that you will need 6% hit, but preferably around 8%.

hmm not using immolate as destro, everything I have been taught says this is not the correct thing to do.

Here is my gear atm. 199 Hit, 23.4% crit ( add on +5 from Devastation) and 1100 or so damage to all schools.
http://armory.wow-europe.com/charact...ol&n=Mondragon

Zero DoTs other than CoD in a destruction build is probably a 5-10% damage loss.

Really? Try it.

Without the 10 fire points you lose personal DPS by casting immolate if you still rock +shadow. You probably lose raid dps either way by casting immolate. I personally find Soul Leech and Netherprot more useful. Of course this is dps in a vacuum. I still cast Immolate and even Corruption on fights where movement or stuns/silences are involved.

edit: god forbid we ever hit a shadow immune/resistant boss, but I'd quickly respec for fire talents for incinerate in that case.

Yeah I was affliction all through SSC and most of TK, and I do think its the best build until you reach a sufficient gear level. The main problem is scaling past tailored gear. You almost max out on DPS with marginal instanced gear and allot that juicy crit/hit/4pc set bonus of tier 6 does very little for you. I still think they should design an Affliction based T6 set with loads of +shadow, although I suppose that it could be better for destro too if you accessorize correctly.

Our Demo lock PVPs a fair amount and usually stays FG for raids. He does really well if the FG stays up, ahead of our Affliction locks and about even with destro. I specced FG myself for awhile with 2/5 tier 5 but was sad to discover that only directed non HoT heals transfered to the pet. VE, Drain Life, Renew, Rejuv, none of it works with the set bonus. The micro-management and liability of the FG, especially while running SL, is pretty tenuous, and the DPS loss is just massive when it dies. Losing 180 spell damage, 5% SL, 5% MD, not to mention the FGs melee just crushes your performance. A resummoned FG will have almost 3k less HP, and contribute less from DK due to lack of fort/mark/ai/kings.

Demi, are there any specific fights where his pet "always" dies and he's really low on dps?

I guess what I'm asking for is how often does his dps fall behind because of his pet. I have been looking around at trying Demo for SSC/TK but I'm not sure if I'll like the micro-management needed.


You also mentioned you had 3 Destro locks, how is the healer mana? are you three self-sufficient? are there fights that you really arent as useful?

With zero points in Imp. Imo and Emberstorm not casting immolate and corruption is still a 2-5% damage loss. Of course with the talents the loss is even greater which begs the question, why don't you have imp immolate and at least some emberstorm in a raiding destruction build if they actually boost dps while netherprot does almost nothing in raids? Soul leech isn't even an option for those points and there really are no other DPS boosting talents to be found in destruction.

SSC
Hydross: Great.
Lurker: Dies if it melees.
Karathress: Can stay up with Micro, SL usually gets it killed.
Leotheras: Mmmmm whirlwind. He usually tanks this with Felpup anyways.
Morogrim: Pretty good. VE heals enough, but it also gets spriests killed by murlocs -_-.
Vashj: Dies if it melees Vash.

TK
Al'ar: Does ok on adds, requires micro.
Solarian: Great, but can't SL due to missiles.
Void Reaver: Pretty good. VE heals enough.
Kael'thas: Not bad, but he tanks with Felpup again.

He is better at micro man. with FG than me. I lost it constantly and got tired of using 3-4 shards per boss. If his spriest dies that FG is always fucked though. We usually run a 3lock/2spriest group with a lust swap so our spriests can use max dps rotations and our warlocks barely need to tap and when they do they are healed very quickly by VE. Basically our raid leader takes the approach of maximizing raid DPS. That means every mana class potting on cooldown if required, and minimizing tap time for locks.


With my gear and build, corruption and immolate are lower damage/cast time. If I were to spec 1/21/39 and cast corr I'd lose overall DPS. If I were to spec Emberstorm and Imp Immolate I'd gain around 20dps when using Immolate but I do find Soul Leech and Nether prot useful, yes, for raiding. If I want to keep those talents I can only do 5/5 Imp Immo and 1/5 Emberstorm, which nets me 5dps, and I think the 5% mana saved on sbolt and the 1 tap per fight it may save is more than 5 dps.