[Warlock] Destro raiding and minimum stats - Page 14

RedAces · 02/26/08, 6:34 PM

hey,

I'm currently programming a calculator in order to determine the perfect gear and perfect gems I can put into new items... so I'm pretty much done, but I've got one problem. In the current state of my calculator it seems, that hitrating is not that important as anybody says... as example: I've got a equipment with 153 hitrating ... this is what I'm wearing if I've got a elemental shaman in my group. And another equipment with more hitrating, if I get no support at all (so there the cap is at 202). I checked a few items with lower crit / spelldamage but high hitrating in order to see if my damage increases with them other... but my calc says that everything is worse... as example boots from Najentus (no hit, socketed with 2 +12 spelldamage) vs. boots from Hydross (18 hitrating). Making a long story short: I think my formula for the overall dps is wrong, but can't find any failure...

average Damage per SB (=avCast)

avCast = nonCrit * (83+Crit+5+Hit)/100;

nonCrit is the damage a noncritical shadow bolt would do ... Crit and Hit are both as percentages so ... 25 e.g. for Crit... the 5 in there is from devastation... I'm assuming a one-roll-system, I think there lies the problem, but can't figure it out

Is this formula correct?

I'm sorry if my english isn't understandle, but my mother tongue is german ... but hopefully you can read it and understand what I mean ;D

If you want to have a preview of this calculator, I'll post a link here. It's written in java, so there shouldn't be any problems with the runtime executable

Hoping you can help me ... or if I can prove that hit-capping isn't that smart all the time

RedAces.

galzohar · 02/26/08, 6:50 PM

Of course if you're comparing poorly itemized items and/or items of low Ilvl VS a well-itemized item with very high Ilvl you will lose DPS for capping your hit. However there are practically always better ways to cap your hit - such ways that will increase your DPS.

For a rough example 8 hit gems, hydross boots, moroes neck, scryer's bloodgem and sethek oracle cloak are bad ways to cap your hit. 5 dmg 4 hit gems (or any kind of epic hit gems, although when you have those you should already have excessive hit on your good gear), T6, cloak from prince, CE ring (if your gear level is low) or ZA 3rd timed chest ring or nah's ring (if available), belt of blasting, hood of hexing (if no T6 available) are all exmamples for generally good ways to up your hit. I hope you get the drift here - try capping your hit while keeping ilvl as high as possible and then you'll actually see more dps with hit cap than not hit cap.

The whole reason people say you should cap your hit to maximize dps is that hit is so strong that at practically every point in the game you'll have gear options that will cap your hit in a way that will increase dps. It doesn't mean you will always do more dps with 202 hit rating than 199 regardless of stats lost on the way.

RedAces · 02/26/08, 7:02 PM

hey,

we're currently wiping on Illidan, so I know all of these items, but if I leave T6 items aside (which I can't geht atm because of a pause) I'm feeling stupid wearing just 153 hitrating with no reason other than my calc says so^^ hard to explain to the others, if you know what I mean

Just want to know if there is a failure in my formula... ^^

btw if you want a link: DPS Calculator RC5
RC 5, hope you like it^^

bye, RedAces.

LockApologist · 02/26/08, 7:49 PM

Your calculation seems overly simplistic, unless you're leaving out a lot. Try:

http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t10065-a...s_spreadsheet/

Evilshady · 02/26/08, 11:09 PM

I'd like to say that 0/21/40 has done more dps then affliction has for me in the past, and this is attainable with a mixture of crafted, heroic badge, Karazhan, and Zul'Aman gear. The only item I am wearing from any P25 is a cloak from Maulgar as this cloak is more dps then the prince cloak when you are already hit-capped. Here is a WWS report of our last Gruul raid, where I actually pulled aggro off the MT during Gruul at about 70% (with salvation).

Yes, I do realize I should have been watching Omen, rather then waiting for 50% to soulshatter.

Anyhow, here is the report and you can armory my warlock as I logged it out in raid boss gear. What the armory doesn't tell you is that I also have 2.38 sec shadowbolts.

Wow Web Stats

Wednesday · 02/26/08, 11:47 PM

Originally Posted by Evilshady

I'd like to say that 0/21/40 has done more dps then affliction has for me in the past, and this is attainable with a mixture of crafted, heroic badge, Karazhan, and Zul'Aman gear. The only item I am wearing from any P25 is a cloak from Maulgar as this cloak is more dps then the prince cloak when you are already hit-capped. Here is a WWS report of our last Gruul raid, where I actually pulled aggro off the MT during Gruul at about 70% (with salvation).

Yes, I do realize I should have been watching Omen, rather then waiting for 50% to soulshatter.

Anyhow, here is the report and you can armory my warlock as I logged it out in raid boss gear. What the armory doesn't tell you is that I also have 2.38 sec shadowbolts.

Wow Web Stats

Maybe you should CoR instead of CoD if you're having threat problems.

Evilshady · 02/26/08, 11:59 PM

Originally Posted by Wednesday

Maybe you should CoR instead of CoD if you're having threat problems.

Indeed, that would be a small threat per second decrease. (11000/60 secs= 183 tps-54tps(salvation)=129 tps) The threat issue on that fight wasn't really my main point with the post, the main point was that you do not need to be in BT in order to outscale affliction dps.

Kalle · 02/27/08, 4:19 AM

Originally Posted by RedAces

average Damage per SB (=avCast)

avCast = nonCrit * (83+Crit+5+Hit)/100;

I think it has been proven, that WoW uses a two-roll system. But for a one-roll system the formula seems to be correct, at least if you wanted to include ruin.

RedAces · 02/27/08, 6:22 AM

hey,

Originally Posted by Kalle

I think it has been proven, that WoW uses a two-roll system. But for a one-roll system the formula seems to be correct, at least if you wanted to include ruin.

so for a two-roll-system it would be

avCast = nonCrit*(83+Hit)/100 * (Crit+5)/100;

Thinks like ruin, Devastation are implemented ... actually the formula is far more complex due to my programming style, so there's a parameter named CritMod: (if you have ruin, critmod would be 1, w/o 0.5 ... with ruin and the meta gem, it would be 1.09)

avCast = nonCrit*(83+Hit)/100 * (100+CritMod * (Crit+5))/100;

@Evilshady: my experience is, if you have an encounter that could last 6 or 7 minutes, it is highly recommend to soulshatter at 75 80%. Because now you may soul shatter a second time at 20 or 10% and keep nuking during the execute phase.

Bye, RedAces.

Magoomba · 07/12/08, 12:39 PM

My lock alt is a fire destro build, 0/21/40. Really impressed with the dps, but I find I never use my lovely 21 point Demo talent, Demonic Sacrifice - mainly because the group/raid wants my imp.

In 25mans, of which I have little experience on this toon yet, I foresee myself being parked in the MT group and being the Blood Pact bitch. So I now ask myself, what is the point of those extra points in the Demonology tree? I'm toying with the idea of this weird-looking 7/14/40 build: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

In it I have given up some mid-table Demo talents I won't use for Instant Corruption (some use in mobile fights) and 2/2 Improved Life Tap. I reckon I cast Life Tap every 5 or 6 casts in long boss fights, and not having to do one in six of those means an extra Incinerate every 30-40 casts. That seems like a decent dps boost for 2 points.

This is starting to look like a "what do you think of my build?" post. I guess it is, but it's more about the broader question "is Demonic Sacrifice a core destro talent?". Well?

Hidden · 07/12/08, 1:22 PM

Originally Posted by Magoomba

My lock alt is a fire destro build, 0/21/40. Really impressed with the dps, but I find I never use my lovely 21 point Demo talent, Demonic Sacrifice - mainly because the group/raid wants my imp.

In 25mans, of which I have little experience on this toon yet, I foresee myself being parked in the MT group and being the Blood Pact bitch. So I now ask myself, what is the point of those extra points in the Demonology tree? I'm toying with the idea of this weird-looking 7/14/40 build: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

In it I have given up some mid-table Demo talents I won't use for Instant Corruption (some use in mobile fights) and 2/2 Improved Life Tap. I reckon I cast Life Tap every 5 or 6 casts in long boss fights, and not having to do one in six of those means an extra Incinerate every 30-40 casts. That seems like a decent dps boost for 2 points.

This is starting to look like a "what do you think of my build?" post. I guess it is, but it's more about the broader question "is Demonic Sacrifice a core destro talent?". Well?

In your position I'd either respec Affliction as it is better than Desutrction in nearly every aspect when you need to have an Imp out or just tell the raidleader to stop putting you into the tank group.

Iluminati · 07/12/08, 1:45 PM

Originally Posted by Magoomba

My lock alt is a fire destro build, 0/21/40. Really impressed with the dps, but I find I never use my lovely 21 point Demo talent, Demonic Sacrifice - mainly because the group/raid wants my imp.

In 25mans, of which I have little experience on this toon yet, I foresee myself being parked in the MT group and being the Blood Pact bitch. So I now ask myself, what is the point of those extra points in the Demonology tree? I'm toying with the idea of this weird-looking 7/14/40 build: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

In it I have given up some mid-table Demo talents I won't use for Instant Corruption (some use in mobile fights) and 2/2 Improved Life Tap. I reckon I cast Life Tap every 5 or 6 casts in long boss fights, and not having to do one in six of those means an extra Incinerate every 30-40 casts. That seems like a decent dps boost for 2 points.

This is starting to look like a "what do you think of my build?" post. I guess it is, but it's more about the broader question "is Demonic Sacrifice a core destro talent?". Well?

As the above poster said, if they're just going to stick you in the tank group every single time anyway, you may be better of switching to affliction. However, either way your tanks really should not need bloodpact. It's really a bit superfluous, and while it is 800~ hp (after full buffs), your tanks should be able to get to an acceptable level of hp (with the other raid buffs fort/kings/commanding/flasks/etc) WITHOUT bloodpact. Even for guilds that use affliction locks on brutallus, it's mainly for the shadow embrace debuff, and they are put in a shadow priest group for mana.

Your situation may be a bit different (undergeared tanks perhaps), but it's something you should consider bringing up.

Magoomba · 07/12/08, 10:27 PM

Thanks guys, my logic took me only part way to the answer - I could see I needed to respec, but hadn't taken it to its logical conclusion.
Now, if I can persuade the tanks they don't need the imp, maybe I can persuade them they DO need my druid's Tree of Life aura....