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Old 01/18/08, 1:10 PM   #176
Stran
Von Kaiser
 
Gnome Warlock
 
Executus
Originally Posted by Rebabal View Post
/wave warlocks.

Currently affliction with 1194 shdw self buffed, 199 hit, 13% crit.

I have a few t4/t5 area +crit pieces that i've been stocking up in the bank to save for when I get into Hyjal & Black Temple...and now that I am in T6 areas I'm looking into destro. I'm currently the only affliction warlock in the guild, our 2 other raiding warlocks are destro. We're a lil low on locks

My destro gear gives me about 1120-1150+shadow, 190 hit, & about 260-290 crit rating. (the variances are pending my ofhand choice & such)

Is it time to respec?

PS: We bring 3-4 fire mages to each raid, should i start hoarding +fire gear and go fire-destro for scorch?
Have a SP? Go shadow destro. Don't have an SP? Go shadow destro. ISB and shadowbolts coefficient is just too good. It's close with no SP, but there is just too much synergy between you and the other 2 locks.

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Old 01/18/08, 3:20 PM   #177
Rebabal
Glass Joe
 
Human Warlock
 
Ysera
We typically raid with 3-4 well geared shadow priest, though warlocks never get to use them. Life Tap is the raid's excuse. 13% dps loss =(

We bring 3-4 geared fire mages that get a shadow priest, two geared hunters that get a shaman and shadow priest, a group of two palys & a holy priest with two shadow priest, then another misc melee group that gets a shaman. I'm not savvy enough to really get into group makeup and what's most beneficial to the raid but the only time a warlock gets a shadow priest is when a Mage isn't there.

Last edited by Rebabal : 01/18/08 at 3:28 PM.

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Old 01/18/08, 3:26 PM   #178
Stran
Von Kaiser
 
Gnome Warlock
 
Executus
Originally Posted by Rebabal View Post
We typically raid with 3-4 well geared shadow priest, though warlocks never get to use them. Life Tap is the raid's excuse. 13% dps loss =(

We bring 3-4 geared fire mages that get a shadow priest, two geared hunters that get a shaman and shadow priest, a group of two palys & a holy priest with two shadow priest, then another misc melee group that gets a shaman. I'm not savvy enough to really get into group makeup and what's most beneficial to the raid but the only time a warlock gets a shadow priest is when a Mage isn't there.
While warlocks benefit from SP in their group through less time spent tapping and the health deficit quickly being toped up, it is nothing to what mages face if they don't have a SP.

My mention of a SP was for Shadow Weaving, a debuff that Shadow Priests place on the mob, providing 10% more damage to the lock. You just need to have a Shadow Priest in the raid to receive his benefit. Having stated that you do indeed have one, it's no longer necessary to discuss this topic. You will perform far better as a SB spamming shadow-destro lock then you could even dream as a Incinerate spamming fire-destro lock.

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Old 01/18/08, 3:30 PM   #179
Rebabal
Glass Joe
 
Human Warlock
 
Ysera
Yea i'm aware of the need to have a priest dedicated to the mages, and i know the benefits priest debuffs give ... But on a subject of mana efficiency, and with shadow bolts costing 400-420 mana, how much more efficient will I be with a geared shadow priest? Do hunters really need one?

Is it more beneficial for me to stay affliction through Hyjal & Black Temple or for me to go Destruction? A few places i've read says it's essential to have atleast one affliction warlock due to Shadow Embrace & Malediction but others say it's not necessary. I know the t6 area gear favors destruction and Affliction scales poorly compared to destruction, but do these factors outweigh Malediction & Shadow Embrace?

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Old 01/18/08, 3:39 PM   #180
Stran
Von Kaiser
 
Gnome Warlock
 
Executus
Originally Posted by Rebabal View Post
Yea i'm aware of the need to have a priest dedicated to the mages, and i know the benefits priest debuffs give ... But on a subject of mana efficiency, and with shadow bolts costing 400-420 mana, how much more efficient will I be with a geared shadow priest? Do hunters really need one?

Is it more beneficial for me to stay affliction through Hyjal & Black Temple or for me to go Destruction? A few places i've read says it's essential to have atleast one affliction warlock due to Shadow Embrace & Malediction but others say it's not necessary. I know the t6 area gear favors destruction and Affliction scales poorly compared to destruction, but do these factors outweigh Malediction & Shadow Embrace?
The equation is fairly easy to calculate. Get the DPS numbers your SPs, Destro Locks, yourself, arcane mages (hah) and boomkins (double hah) put out. Count only the raid regulars. add up their DPS, and find what value 3% of it gives you. If 3% of their DPS is greater than the diference between the numbers you put out and the numbers your destro locks put out, then the raid benefits more from you being there. This is not even counting the benefit of SE and having an imp. If the number is smaller, then it's possible you could contribute more as destro, through more personal DPS and increased ISB uptime.

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Old 01/18/08, 4:44 PM   #181
 frmorrison
Protector
 
frmorrison's Avatar
 
Ashstorm
Human Paladin
 
No WoW Account
Malediction gives a 2.7% damage increase. The value of an imp plus 5% less physical damage is hard to measure, but I used to give those things and now I don't and things still go well. However with Sunwell coming soon, the extra health + damage reduction may be worth losing 400 dps (the difference between Destro and Affliction for me).

Millions of words are written annually purporting to tell how to beat the races, whereas the best possible advice on the subject is found in the three monosyllables: 'Do not try.'

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Old 01/18/08, 4:49 PM   #182
Rebabal
Glass Joe
 
Human Warlock
 
Ysera
We just started Hyjal yesterday. I'm excited about the gear change over to include more hit/crit/damage so I can gem +12s =D.

frmorrison, how did your guild decide when it came to Conqueror T6 tokens? Did they deck out healers first or distribute evenly? I'm a little worried having to fair against Paladins & Priest...mainly priest because we bring a lot to raids.

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Old 01/21/08, 4:44 PM   #183
Hatsuhiko
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Warlock
 
Burning Legion
Hello everyone,

This is the first time I've posted here but I've visited this site regularly to read up on peoples discussion. I'm having a bit of dilemma even after reading the Warlock PVE Compendium. I know that Hit is priority for Destro locks and I'm currently spec'd Sbolt destro. My stats are as followed with Fel Armor, Hit: 195, Shadow dmg; 1223 and 23.9% crit. My guild is currently in BT and Hyjal, working on Teron Gorefiend and Archimonde respectively. I've checked out other warlocks in this thread and realized how much more shadow damage they have then me and was wondering if it is better to just stack Shadow dmg instead of Crit?

I guess it would help if I mention a bit about our raid setup.

I'm only going to list off the caster DPS, so we usually we run with:

2 Warlocks (both destro)
2-3 Spriests
2-3 Arcane/fire mages
1 Boomkin
1 Ele Shammy


I usually get the luxury of a spriest which is definately nice but my concern is ISB up times spread between 2 locks and how much Sdmg vs Crit I need.

Thanks in advance guys

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Old 01/21/08, 9:43 PM   #184
PSGarak
Bald Bull
 
PSGarak's Avatar
 
Undead Warlock
 
Hyjal
Destro scales better with crit than affliction or demonology, but it does not scale better with crit than damage. While we're still working on perfecting raid-ISB uptime models, it's surprisingly resilient to changes in personal crit. While crit is not a bad stat for a destro warlock, it's not worth building for either.
Looking at your profile, I would say ditch the wand and offhand for badge loot, regem BoB for raw damage, and I'm not sure about the trinket. If it has an internal cooldown, get darkmoon: crusade instead.

Also, make sure when comparing stats that all buffs are being equal =P. No point in comparing your damage to someone who's flasked and fooded if you're not.


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Old 01/23/08, 9:29 PM   #185
Hatsuhiko
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Warlock
 
Burning Legion
Lol crap you caught me with my crappy OH. I do have the haste OH from badges but I don't know if thats worth it. I know haste is good when you stack it but only that 1 OH would it make a difference? I'm collecting badges at the moment for the wand.

Ideally what kind of stats should I be sitting at?
Maybe I can drop some crit for spell damage?

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Old 02/03/08, 12:20 AM   #186
jallah
Glass Joe
 
Undead Warlock
 
Grim Batol (EU)
depends

really depends how much crit/dmg you have buffed.
i would never drop +sdmg for crit, since +dmg gives more then crit.raiding as 0 21 40 atm, with about 40% crit buffed, and 1600 shadow dmg. and the OH you are talking about, have checked abit on it and its like a 5 dps uppgrade compared to Orb of the Soul-Eater for me.

stacking spell haste.
thing with spell haste, you gotta sacrifice other stats for it, mostly crit and hit. like, bracers + ring + neck + OH. gives about 110ish spellhaste, still i would will be hit capped and have enough crit to "in theory" keep imp sdb up for 100% of the time alone. have not really looked into spell haste and checked if it will boost my dps or not. Will loose like 50+ spell dmg and 2% crit, mabye more. but is it worth it ? hmm

BTW: garak, whats up with the 50/0/11 :P
should prolly skip fel conc and iHoT and get devestation + destr reach.
and skip imp coa and coex to get some 3 in sup so you get closer to cap atleast.

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Old 02/03/08, 12:38 AM   #187
PSGarak
Bald Bull
 
PSGarak's Avatar
 
Undead Warlock
 
Hyjal
I know what a hardcore raiding spec is, and I'm aware I don't have one. I have the raid-support talents, but I also have the ones I need for doing just about anything else ever, and will continue to do so until my 66 warrior is 70 with an epic flyer, at the very very earliest. Probably a lot longer, considering how good aff locks are at farming. You also neglected to mention shadowburn.


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Old 02/03/08, 1:00 AM   #188
jallah
Glass Joe
 
Undead Warlock
 
Grim Batol (EU)
Originally Posted by nuzzlefutz View Post
Using mana pots is what seperates the good locks from the bad ones. I will only LT if I see that the healers are not healing there asses off or if im in a shadow priest group. Take a fight like illidan and illidan council these are 8-12min fights depending on your dps and healers don't have to many way to regen mana other then shadow priest or mana pots so why would you LT and waste there mana instead of spending the 1g and hitting a pot?
Well, when i discussed this with the healers on vt, like, back when i was aff, its , 2-3LT +1x drain = full health again.
but, when i tried to do that, i always got spam healed. healers insist on healing me and to quote a druid: well, 1-2 lifetaps, thats just another lifebloom". and those lifeblooms are dead cheap :P

so basicly its not alowed for me to, or cant cause i get heals, be self sustained. so chugging mana pots will increase dps ye, cause you get rid of some gcd that you would use LT'ing.
BUT , chugging Destruction pots = alot more fun , is it worth chugging mana or destro pots for dps ? thats my question.

Y, i am really lazy when it comes to theorycrafting etc.

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Old 02/03/08, 1:05 AM   #189
jallah
Glass Joe
 
Undead Warlock
 
Grim Batol (EU)
Originally Posted by PSGarak View Post
You also neglected to mention shadowburn.
hmm, where would you put that 1 point instead if you we'r doing a 43/0/18 ? just go for a 44 0 18.?
But tba, shadowburn can and is really usefull on fights, especially as affliction, where you lack burst.
like illidan, helping on parasites when some random mage ,/points @ tard mage in henchmen, dies
other then that shadowburn is not for raid dps fo sho.

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Old 02/03/08, 5:10 AM   #190
Chimera
Von Kaiser
 
Chimera's Avatar
 
Gnome Warlock
 
Doomhammer
Originally Posted by Rebabal View Post
We typically raid with 3-4 well geared shadow priest, though warlocks never get to use them. Life Tap is the raid's excuse. 13% dps loss =(

We bring 3-4 geared fire mages that get a shadow priest, two geared hunters that get a shaman and shadow priest, a group of two palys & a holy priest with two shadow priest, then another misc melee group that gets a shaman. I'm not savvy enough to really get into group makeup and what's most beneficial to the raid but the only time a warlock gets a shadow priest is when a Mage isn't there.
Wait, TWO shadow priests in a group with 3 healers? What are they doing, spamming max rank heals the entire fight? There's no good reason for this setup. Move one of those shadow priests into the warlock group.

Last edited by Chimera : 02/03/08 at 5:15 AM.

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Old 02/05/08, 3:05 AM   #191
aballapnoy
Glass Joe
 
Human Warlock
 
Silver Hand
.....

Last edited by aballapnoy : 02/05/08 at 3:23 AM.

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Old 02/05/08, 3:51 AM   #192
galzohar
Bald Bull
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Darksorrow (EU)
Bottom line is, after lots of playing with spreadsheets and realistic gear options, that the "destro raiding minimum stats" just depends. It depends what affliction gear you have. It depends what destruction gear you have. And it depends if your raid actually really wants imp/shadow embrace at the cost of the dps you'd bring as destruction - and even there the cost depends on what destruction gear and what affliction gear you have.
Taking your affliction gear and comparing its affliction dps to its destruction dps may favor affliction even though you are at a gear level that allows you to do better as destruction (if you just regem and swap some items around). Doing the opposite will make affliction look like a much bigger dps loss than it really is.

If anyone can counter my point by making a character profile of a real raider (as in, has his best crafted/kara/heroic gear) that would do more dps as affliction than destruction I'd love to see it (as the basis I used was a warlock with a bit higher gear level than that but not much and is actually missing some heroic/s3 honor rewards for both specs). And no if you're using blues it doesn't count as a real raider, to me at least

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Old 02/05/08, 4:43 AM   #193
Anthraxx
Von Kaiser
 
Anthraxx's Avatar
 
Undead Warlock
 
Mazrigos (EU)
Originally Posted by jallah View Post
so chugging mana pots will increase dps ye, cause you get rid of some gcd that you would use LT'ing.
BUT , chugging Destruction pots = alot more fun , is it worth chugging mana or destro pots for dps ? thats my question.
Page 41

2% crit and 120 damage for 6 shadowbolts is on average the same as +12% crit and 720spellpower for one bolt, say 1200-1500 damage, and that's being very, very generous. A mana potion gives you two GCDs, or roughly a shadow bolt's worth, say 2000-2500. This is ignoring multipliers like CoS, DS, Misery, Shadoweaving, they work for both. Under normal circumstances, the mana pot will win by a mile.
Concluding...These pots will shine in short encounters like maybe Akama (no mana problems, although maybe not the boss u'll want to pot for ), Teron (pew pew like there is no tomorrow cause in 5 secs u can become the ghost) and fights where u need fast burst dmg (Kael p2 for example). For longer stuff mana pot looks better.

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Old 02/15/08, 3:21 PM   #194
ggfira
Glass Joe
 
Undead Warlock
 
Mal'Ganis
Firstly, Ill only go into raid applicable information, secondly, feel free to correct me I'm still learning too , I will not go into the math too much, there are plenty of other sources that have covered these areas exquisitely and better than I could manage to put into words besides, "its better."
I've been back and forth between affliction, demo, and destro a few dozen times, and this is what I’ve learned;

Here is a list of all the talents that I would deem raid applicable in some way:

Affliction Talents;Shadow Embrace; reducing physical damage dealt to your tank by up to 5% (1%/lvl).
Instant Corruption; less time casting dots equals more time to spam sb's, increasing dps.
Siphon Life; most of the time, more than enough to keep you alive during a boss fight if you life tap once or twice or take some aoe dmg.
Nightfall; not a reliable source of damage, but always a nice burst.
Shadow Mastery; increases the damage dealt by all of your shadow spells, shadow bolt included, and life gained from siphon life/life drain, by up to 10%.
Imp Life Tap; allows for less time taping for mana, and more time dpsing.
Suppression; Awesome talent, allows you to focus your gear in other areas other than hit up to a certain extent.
Dark Pact; mana battery with your imp out, BoWisdom on it, you will often times not even need to life tap in a fight.
Unstable Affliction; 1050 dmg over 18 seconds, another dot.
Imp Curse of Agony; 10% more dmg from CoA.
Malediction; 3% bonus dmg from CoElements and CoS.
Soul Siphon; 4% more life drained for each affliction effect on a mob.
Amp Curse; increases the effect of CoA and CoD by 50%. (use this then apply curse...)
Emp Corruption; 36% bonus dmg to corruption based on items/buffs.

Demo Talents;
Imp Imp; up to 30% more life from Blood Pact.
Imp health stone; up to 20% more health per stone.
Demonic Embrace; up to 15% more stamina.
Fel Int; up to more max mana by 3%, + pet int by 15%.
Fel Stamina; up to 3% more HP.
Demonic Aegis; up to 30 more spell dmg, and 30% more healing taken from fel armor.
Demon Sacrifice; Will be used with succubus mostly, to increase your shadow dmg by 15%.
Fel Domination; Good for a quick summon if your pet dies.
Master Summoner; reduces mana and casting time of pets.
Unholy Power; Increases damage dealt by a pet by 20%.
Mana Feed; Gives 33% of the mana from life tap to your pet.
Master Demonologist; Grants a buff depending on what pet you are using.
Demonic Knowledge; increases your spell dmg by 15% your pets int + stam.
Soul Link; 20% of the damage you take, is taken by your pet instead, also gives you and your pet 5% more damage.
Demonic Tactics; Increases your and your pets crit chance by 5%.
Summon Felguard; Summons a felguard.

Destro Talents;
Imp Shadow Bolt; when you crit with a sb, it increases all shadow damage taken by 20%.
Bane; 2.5 second sb vs 3 sec sb.
Cataclysm; 5% less mana for destro spells.
Devastation; 5% more chance to crit with destro spells.
Shadow burn; Instant 530 dmg.
Destructive reach; 20% longer range and 10% less threat generated by destro spells.
Intensity; 70% chance you wont get interrupted while casting destro spells.
Ruin; increases the damage of your crit strikes by 50%.
Nether Protection; 30% chance to become immune to shadow or fire spells for 4 seconds after being hit by a shadow/fire spell.
Backlash; 3% more chance to crit, 25% chance to have an instant sb/ incinerate when hit by a physical attack.
30% chance to recover 20% of the damage dealt by non aoe spells as health.
Shadow and Flame; 20% bonus spell effect from your items/buffs for sb and incinerate.



Raid builds; All builds, regardless of the focus your going into, you should get bane, and imp sb. Sb will always do more damage than life drain, regardless of spec, bane allows more sb's (20% more) increasing your dps while spaming.


Affliction builds:
44/7/10; Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
UA, CoS, Corruption, Siphon life, spam sb, re-dott target, spam, repeat, dark pact and life tap when your on the move, and drain life if you see the healers struggling. Fairly easy to do, just don’t re-dot before the dot has it's last tick, or your wasting mana and lowering your dps, DoTimer helps.
- Variations of this build;
- take the 3/3 malediction, put it into amp curse, and imp CoA. If there are other affliction locks in the group, assign a curse to each of them before the raid, the ones with Mal. use CoE for the mages, and another with Mal use Cos, for shadow/arcane users. If you have a destro lock, let them use CoDoom, CoA, or another applicable curse for the fight (weakness perhaps).

34/17/10; Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
CoA/Doom, Corruption, siphon life, spam Sb, dark pact/life tap, drain if needed, repeat. This allows for more hp/mana than the above build, but slightly less dps.
- Variations of this build;
- take the 3/3 off imp imp if you are in a 25 man raid, most of the time, you will not be close enough for the tank to get your imp effect, in addition, you can park your imp ( run up to the tank and tell the imp to stay ) and run back and dps, but often times there are other buffs that tanks want, and you can max ur dps elsewhere. Use the 3/3 skills from imp, to put into health stone, if your group needs a rank 1/2 or 2/2, and put the remainder into Devastation.
30/21/10; Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
CoA, Corruption, Siphon life, spam sb, repeat. This build utilizes demon sacrafice while using succubus to increase shadow damage by 15%. This is one of the better builds for overall DPS, but lacks several raid buffs, mainly shadow embrace, dark pact, and malediction. Then 1/5 unholy power is just a filler skill, as you will not be using a pet.

Destro Builds:
0/21/40; Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
15% more damage from demon sacrifice, use the curse designated to you, (CoA or Doom, depends on length of the fight, usually if there are aff locks in raid, as they will be spec'd into Malediction) and spam shadow bolt. Fairly boring, but gives the greatest dps of all of these builds. Very mana intensive, but if the healers aren't too busy, they can throw a HoT or a heal on you every once in a while, allowing you to mana up during a boss fight.

0/16/45; Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
Fire lock, I would not recommend this, unless there is NO shadow priest, or there are already 2 aff and 1-2 destro locks.
CoE, Immolate, spam incinerate until immolate is nearly up, then conflagrate, and repeat. Great dps, but again, not a large demand for this spec, as it is hard to gear up into ( most lock items are shadow damage oriented until t5-6 when you replace shadoweave). You can also go spellfire spec tailoring instead of shadoweave, and then utilize this build fairly well.

Demo Builds:
5/41/15: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
Use fel guard, soul link, instant corruption, and spam shadow bolt. Use fel domination if you pet gets dominated, ^_^.
- Variations;
-take the 5 pts from instant corruption, put them into intensity, destructive reach, and shadowburn.
-same as above, only use succubus instead of a point into FG, and get ruin for higher crits.

Recommendations for builds;
Stay affliction until you reach at least +1k dmg and 20% crit with ~150 hit unbuffed. Up until this point, affliction will out dps you, and out last you if you spec'd destro.

Raid Tips;
Assign Curses before the fight.
Get different rank's of health stone, you can only carry one of each rank, 0/2, 1/2, and 2/2. Figure this out with your locks, and decide who gets what.
Curse of Doom on mobs/bosses that last longer than 60 seconds...
Dont load up your dotts on trash that would die before the dott is up, just instant corruption(aff spec only) CoS then spam sb.
Give the Tank time to get aggro if your destro, yes, you gave him 10 seconds, but you hit like a truck, so give ‘em 11 seconds if he needs it. Cast Corruption and immolate to maximize your dps while waiting to unload. Soul shatter is nice, but you shouldn’t need it in the first few minutes of a fight.
Only one person needs Shadow Embrace, it does not stack, and does not count as multiple affliction effects, sort this out with your locks.
Life tap and Dark Pact while moving if you can, allows you to not 'waste time' when you could be standing still dpsing.


Overall:
Affliction is easier for grinding, so if you still need a lot of primal *, or if heroics/raiding is not what you do most of the time, stay affliction, or do a hybrid build such as 30/10/21, it allows for decent raid dps, and exceptional grinding.
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft


If you get anything from this, please let these points sink in;
-Sort out who gets what talents, 2-3 people casting the same spells, when one person has a better spec bonus is a waste.
-Sort out what curses you will use before the fight, this goes hand in hand with the above statement.
-Not being #1 on the dps meters is ok, affliction may not be the best dps spec available, but it has bonuses that cannot be argued with as being well worth it.
-Dont life tap to 10% and wonder why you died. Healers have other things to be focusing on, life tap sparsely, and drain life if you see they're struggling to keep people up.
-Dont be an aggro hog. Yes, you do insane damage, awesome, you also pulled agro and died seconds into the fight, as the raid wiped without your dps.
Be patient.
-Death coil, soul shatter, and fear things when you think your going to die, but remember that your feared mobs can pull, so if they get close to something else, use curse of recklessness, and they will stop running, if you need them feared again, just put a different curse on them, and as long as fear is still active, they will run away again.

Hope you learned something new.

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Old 02/15/08, 6:45 PM   #195
Arelenda
Don Flamenco
 
Human Warlock
 
Argent Dawn (EU)
You might look into the warlock raiding compendium instead adding to this old discussion.

Originally Posted by ggfira View Post
Firstly, Ill only go into raid applicable information, secondly, feel free to correct me I'm still learning too , I will not go into the math too much, there are plenty of other sources that have covered these areas exquisitely and better than I could manage to put into words besides, "its better."
I've been back and forth between affliction, demo, and destro a few dozen times, and this is what I’ve learned;

Here is a list of all the talents that I would deem raid applicable in some way:
..
Hope you learned something new.

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Old 02/26/08, 6:34 PM   #196
RedAces
Glass Joe
 
RedAces's Avatar
 
Human Warlock
 
Der Rat von Dalaran (EU)
hey,

I'm currently programming a calculator in order to determine the perfect gear and perfect gems I can put into new items... so I'm pretty much done, but I've got one problem. In the current state of my calculator it seems, that hitrating is not that important as anybody says... as example: I've got a equipment with 153 hitrating ... this is what I'm wearing if I've got a elemental shaman in my group. And another equipment with more hitrating, if I get no support at all (so there the cap is at 202). I checked a few items with lower crit / spelldamage but high hitrating in order to see if my damage increases with them other... but my calc says that everything is worse... as example boots from Najentus (no hit, socketed with 2 +12 spelldamage) vs. boots from Hydross (18 hitrating). Making a long story short: I think my formula for the overall dps is wrong, but can't find any failure...

average Damage per SB (=avCast)

avCast = nonCrit * (83+Crit+5+Hit)/100;
nonCrit is the damage a noncritical shadow bolt would do ... Crit and Hit are both as percentages so ... 25 e.g. for Crit... the 5 in there is from devastation... I'm assuming a one-roll-system, I think there lies the problem, but can't figure it out

Is this formula correct?

I'm sorry if my english isn't understandle, but my mother tongue is german ... but hopefully you can read it and understand what I mean ;D

If you want to have a preview of this calculator, I'll post a link here. It's written in java, so there shouldn't be any problems with the runtime executable

Hoping you can help me ... or if I can prove that hit-capping isn't that smart all the time
RedAces.

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Old 02/26/08, 6:50 PM   #197
galzohar
Bald Bull
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Darksorrow (EU)
Of course if you're comparing poorly itemized items and/or items of low Ilvl VS a well-itemized item with very high Ilvl you will lose DPS for capping your hit. However there are practically always better ways to cap your hit - such ways that will increase your DPS.

For a rough example 8 hit gems, hydross boots, moroes neck, scryer's bloodgem and sethek oracle cloak are bad ways to cap your hit. 5 dmg 4 hit gems (or any kind of epic hit gems, although when you have those you should already have excessive hit on your good gear), T6, cloak from prince, CE ring (if your gear level is low) or ZA 3rd timed chest ring or nah's ring (if available), belt of blasting, hood of hexing (if no T6 available) are all exmamples for generally good ways to up your hit. I hope you get the drift here - try capping your hit while keeping ilvl as high as possible and then you'll actually see more dps with hit cap than not hit cap.

The whole reason people say you should cap your hit to maximize dps is that hit is so strong that at practically every point in the game you'll have gear options that will cap your hit in a way that will increase dps. It doesn't mean you will always do more dps with 202 hit rating than 199 regardless of stats lost on the way.

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Old 02/26/08, 7:02 PM   #198
RedAces
Glass Joe
 
RedAces's Avatar
 
Human Warlock
 
Der Rat von Dalaran (EU)
hey,

we're currently wiping on Illidan, so I know all of these items, but if I leave T6 items aside (which I can't geht atm because of a pause) I'm feeling stupid wearing just 153 hitrating with no reason other than my calc says so^^ hard to explain to the others, if you know what I mean

Just want to know if there is a failure in my formula... ^^

btw if you want a link: DPS Calculator RC5
RC 5, hope you like it^^

bye, RedAces.

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Old 02/26/08, 7:49 PM   #199
LockApologist
Piston Honda
 
Undead Warlock
 
Mug'thol
Your calculation seems overly simplistic, unless you're leaving out a lot. Try:

http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t10065-a...s_spreadsheet/

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Old 02/26/08, 11:09 PM   #200
Evilshady
Glass Joe
 
Human Warlock
 
Stormrage
I'd like to say that 0/21/40 has done more dps then affliction has for me in the past, and this is attainable with a mixture of crafted, heroic badge, Karazhan, and Zul'Aman gear. The only item I am wearing from any P25 is a cloak from Maulgar as this cloak is more dps then the prince cloak when you are already hit-capped. Here is a WWS report of our last Gruul raid, where I actually pulled aggro off the MT during Gruul at about 70% (with salvation).

Yes, I do realize I should have been watching Omen, rather then waiting for 50% to soulshatter.

Anyhow, here is the report and you can armory my warlock as I logged it out in raid boss gear. What the armory doesn't tell you is that I also have 2.38 sec shadowbolts.

Wow Web Stats

Last edited by Evilshady : 02/26/08 at 11:14 PM.

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