NicotineJones

Does one exist at present? Search turned up nothing, but I might just be an idiot.

Trying to find something to pass on to a guildie.

Thanks.

 

• Kestrel

 

• Binkenstein

There's a few things around atm.

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My Blog on EJ Latest Entry: 3.2 Elemental Changes 30 June '09
Theorycrafting Think Tank: Shaman: Elemental
Project Archive: Re-writing the TTT entry in bite sized pieces.

 

Benjaimn

Bop's calculator is very good and hes put a lot of time into developing it. I worked on a elemental shaman dps calculator more to compare different gear / talent set ups here: http://iam.colum.edu/students/ben.mi...s/Default.aspx As you can see mine still needs a lot of work.

 

• Miraanda

Is there a place to look to see the elemental shaman damage cycle? This link seemed to be the best i could find, would it be somewhere in the 2.1 Elemental Focus change thread?

 

Nite_Moogle

There really isn't one-- just spam lightning bolt over and over. At a 1.5 cast time, anything else you do is a global cooldown anyway and takes just as long, and has a lower coefficient. Dropping totems is really the only interruption you should have.

 

• Miraanda

So, CL shouldnt be involved at all, and neither should shocks? I was talking to another shaman in my guild who argues that Flameshock would be a good way to go with all the scorch debuffs up. Is that incorrect?

 

VinnieJones

Flame shock triggers the gcd meaning your sitting on your hands for 1.5s, plus requires that you not be at max cl range. Depending on the fight length and ability to cl (adds, shackles and such) you can go 12/12/12/CL/12/12/12/Cl if you want. It's a bit of a damage boost but an extra 250 mana or so every fourth cast.

*edit* Also, took a look. An extra few crit% you could swap in for longer fights might do some some good longevity wise, and you are 2% over the hit cap on lvl 73 bosses if you have tow down. With your talents you have a natural +12% to crit and cap is 16% iirc. So if you can you could probably swap out some gear for different pieces if you wanted to min/max a bit more*

 

• Miraanda

12 = Lightning Bolt, correct? So about every 4th cast should be a Chain lightning cast if i want to do MAXIMUM damage. Alright. with a shadow priest i should be in good shape to go ahead and do that then. Thanks for your input, i appreciate it.

 

VinnieJones

No worries, most of what I know was picked up here as well. And yes, 12 is your max rank lb. I've actually had a few situations where I've had to resort to alternation 12 and 4 when things were running low and between that and pots have been able to arrest or reverse being near oom.

 

Phro

Depending on the fight full cycling CL isn't always achievable, even with a spriest. Not to mention aggro may become a problem at the beginning of the fight. Without EF, thats ~724 mana (i think right?) every 6 seconds. Thats 7240 mana in a minute...on top of 600 or so every 6 seconds from LB alone. So like 10K+ mana in one minute. My math is a little off here...but I think you can understand my point.

I would suggest waiting until you can sit comfortably at your mana and when the boss is at ~%40ish if you want to start a 3xLB/CL cycle. Personally I'll CL cycle at this 40% mark if I have at least 70% mana left. I personally find myself throwing chain-heals when I have a spriest as I see this is more beneficial to the raid, since (imo) chain heal is one of the best heals in the game and very raid saving in certain situations.

Shocking, IMO, is useless unless you're looking to get more on the DM meters in 5-10mans. Shocks in general are terribly inefficient and I wouldn't ever suggest using them in 25-man raids...except where you are supposed to (i.e. mag) and even then I use rank1.

 

VinnieJones

...or if you like padding your damage stats a bit with a lb12+ES Alpha strike when the mob is almost dead. That one works well in Khara as well as the 5man stuff.

 

• Binkenstein

Might have a play with various damage cycles to see what cycle is best.

Do not PM me, or roll an alt on my server to ask me questions
My Blog on EJ Latest Entry: 3.2 Elemental Changes 30 June '09
Theorycrafting Think Tank: Shaman: Elemental
Project Archive: Re-writing the TTT entry in bite sized pieces.

 

• Binkenstein

Quick & Nasty analysis of cast rotations. Funnily enough, from a DPM point of view, LB > all.
Adding FS & CL into the mix may increase DPS, but it also increases mana use significantly more.

Do not PM me, or roll an alt on my server to ask me questions
My Blog on EJ Latest Entry: 3.2 Elemental Changes 30 June '09
Theorycrafting Think Tank: Shaman: Elemental
Project Archive: Re-writing the TTT entry in bite sized pieces.

 

Dicho

Honestly, the DPS vs DPM consideration relies intirely on the encounter, and your regen in raids.

Keeping in mind here that my gear is somewhat decent, I always have a shadow priest, and BoW available. I also use stopcasting to shave milliseconds off my LB casts, thus spending slightly more mana.

On the majority of fights, I find myself hard pressed to get rid of my mana. How mana efficient my spell rotation might be seems pointless when I am seemingly never in any danger of going oom.

With that in mind, I would love to find out whether just spamming LB, or CL/LB rotation, or FS/LB rotation, or FS/CL/LB rotation will most increase my dps.
- Assuming again this is in a raid situation with all the appropriate debuffs on the boss, CoE, CoS, Scorch, Misery etc, and that I have my totems and flasks/pots on.
My own rather primitive attempts at calculating this seems to indicate that using FS every 12 secs is more dmg then just spamming LB in the same cast window.


Threat is mostly a non-issue on static fights, even with Stormstrike goodness.

 

panny

Lightning Bolt is a 2 second cast.

 

• Binkenstein

Well, you can see that on there, I just included the mana stuff as an afterthought.
I guess I could include a debuff check in next, but it's pretty safe to say that the only thing that would affect a rotation like this is whether the mob is nature vulnerable, or has +fire damage debuffs. Guess I'll add that into the next build, as I'm kinda curious now :p

This said, I have made some changes. I think I've implemented a sufficient way of accounting for Clearcasts. There's now a second option to use for CL, to say how many CC'd CLs you use (I think this effectively gets around the CC -> CL issue with minimal worry on my part, but allow fairly decent control of how it works in the long run). Assuming your crit % gives that many clearcasts, the remained will be used on LB/FS casts.

So for the debuffs, we want scorch, CoE at least.
Misery is all spell damage iirc, so it would scale everything up by 10%(?) and not be that useful for comparisons (unless we want absolute values).

Do not PM me, or roll an alt on my server to ask me questions
My Blog on EJ Latest Entry: 3.2 Elemental Changes 30 June '09
Theorycrafting Think Tank: Shaman: Elemental
Project Archive: Re-writing the TTT entry in bite sized pieces.

 

koushi

CoE doesn't affect Nature or did they finally change it. Misery is 5% iirc.

 

koushi

nvm me. CoE factoring in for flame shock. Its hot and my brain is tired

 

Dicho

The best ofc would be if blizzard gives us a Patchwerk-like encounter to test dps on, but that probably isnt likely.

For a comparison study misery is kinda pointless yeah.
The 10% + 15% from CoE and scorch definitely impacts the viability of FS in raids.

If Stormstrike was a flat 20% buff to nature dmg, then there would be no contest. But with only 2 of my 5(or less) bolts getting the SS buff, it doesnt impact the viability of flame shock.

There are other factors to consider when moving away from the pure LB spam ofc. CL can break cc's, and FS requires you to sometimes be unhealthily close to your target.

I also like to keep atleast 2k mana free to do spotheals(i'd consider myself shit if I don't throw heals when it can save someones life), and keep myself alive.

 

Voltan

I am 99.9% sure the best rotation is LB,LB,LB,CL - Rinse and repeat. I will back this up with some evidence once I have the time (at work at the moment and just about to go on lunch). I myself have tried all possible rotations and found this one to be the best if you have the mana to see it through (its sick mps usage - however I have pretty good gear, 41% crit, and always get a a shadow priest and BoW).

The Rotations I am going to provide maths for are:

LB,LB,LB,CL
LB,LB,LB,CL with FS once every 12 seconds.
LB Spam - Purely for the point of comparison, from experience I've noticed the dmg difference between avg LB, and Avg CL is VERY slight - ~30ish dmg, obviously dependant on +spelldmg, the more you have the closer the gap (?) - Have yet to do any maths for proof.

Watch this space.

Ok, just to edit. Havent had a chance to look through this, still thinking about how to fit them into comfortable rotations without losing .5 of a second every now and then. I'm almost certain now FS is not worth using for a multiple of factors: - 11% less crit, cant proc LO, Short Range, More mana, Losing .5 - 1sec of FS uptime as well with standard spell rotation.

 

Squrf

There is most definitely a point where LB12 is going to provide higher average damage than CL, simply due to the scaling and talents. With around 700 +damage, it's already a minimal difference for me. There should definitely be a breakpoint where LB spam provides higher DPS than a LB12/CL cycle and it should be roughly where the average LB12 hits 33% harder than CL.

 

Hamilburg

Which will never happen, due to the difference in cast times.

LB has a 86% coefficient compared to 71% on the first hit of CL. Dividing by the relative cast times, LB DPS increases by 43% of spell damage compared to 47% for Chain Lightning.

If you take lag into account CL gets hit harder than LB, but you need to be talking about .87 seconds of additional lag on top of casting before LB has a better DPS scaling coefficient than LB, and I dearly hope you are not trying to raid productively with that kind of latency.

 

• Binkenstein

He may have been talking about three-target damage rather than single target.

In that case, yes, it scales better, but it requires three targets to be hit (and often breaking CC).

Voltan, assuming my calcs are correct you should be able to plug that info straight into my spreadsheet

Do not PM me, or roll an alt on my server to ask me questions
My Blog on EJ Latest Entry: 3.2 Elemental Changes 30 June '09
Theorycrafting Think Tank: Shaman: Elemental
Project Archive: Re-writing the TTT entry in bite sized pieces.

 

Voltan

Will do, just gotta get my head round the different bits on there and I keep getting interupted... damn work. :P