[Shaman] Elemental Shaman DPS Spreadsheet? - Page 11

Nennx · 08/07/07, 9:12 PM

Do you plan on ever including spell haste into your spreadsheet?

Also, how do you guys feel spell haste effects procs such as LO and LC? It would seem to me as if 1% crit = 1% haste when it comes to this, but I might be missing something.

Gira · 08/08/07, 8:19 AM

Other than the sequence of CL, gear & enchants is there anything else I can be doing to maximize my dps as an elemental shaman?

Fallus · 08/08/07, 11:38 AM

Originally Posted by subscience

Hm. According to that graph, the Icon and Crusade deck seem neck-and-neck. I'll probably stick with the Icon since I can control the proc and really pack the damage on Heroisms. Crusade seems better for trash.

ok here are some numbers.
Same test for 6:00 of LB spam with OL or TLC procs, but added heroismin the calculations. For the heroism data, I did this:

20secs / 2.0sec = 10 casts
10 / 70% = 14.28 casts ~= 14 casts

Here are the numbers:

			Icon	Crusade

	00:00-00:20	1980	360
	00:20-2:00	2150	4000
Heroism	02:00-02:20	2772	1120
	02:20-02:40	602	1120
	02:40-04:00	1720	3200
	04:00-04:20	1980	800
	04:20-06:00	2150	4000

			13354	14720

During the heroism, you can generate 3374 bonus spell damage with Icon and 2240 with Crusade card. As for the time where you do not have your heroism on, you do 7980 with the Icon and 12480 with the Card.

subscience · 08/08/07, 4:02 PM

Originally Posted by Gira

Other than the sequence of CL, gear & enchants is there anything else I can be doing to maximize my dps as an elemental shaman?

Proper group setup is really the only other thing. Last night I had 2xBM Hunters in my group (I always have a Shadow Priest) and the stacking FI was pretty insane.

Edit--

Originally Posted by Fallus

ok here are some numbers.
Same test for 6:00 of LB spam with OL or TLC procs, but added heroismin the calculations. For the heroism data, I did this:

20secs / 2.0sec = 10 casts
10 / 70% = 14.28 casts ~= 14 casts

Here are the numbers:

			Icon	Crusade

	00:00-00:20	1980	360
	00:20-2:00	2150	4000
Heroism	02:00-02:20	2772	1120
	02:20-02:40	602	1120
	02:40-04:00	1720	3200
	04:00-04:20	1980	800
	04:20-06:00	2150	4000

			13354	14720

During the heroism, you can generate 3374 bonus spell damage with Icon and 2240 with Crusade card. As for the time where you do not have your heroism on, you do 7980 with the Icon and 12480 with the Card.

FYI -- Crusade translates to an added 3.79 DPS over 6 minutes according to this data. Thanks for the numbers!

Edit 2--

Originally Posted by Nennx

Do you plan on ever including spell haste into your spreadsheet?

Also, how do you guys feel spell haste effects procs such as LO and LC? It would seem to me as if 1% crit = 1% haste when it comes to this, but I might be missing something.

I'm dying to know how spell haste affects overall DPS and whether or not it's worth dropping CL completely from a single-target rotation if you can get a decent level of haste. It'd definitely save a lot of mana, even moreso with the Ashtongue trinket (if it's any good).

Binkenstein · 08/08/07, 8:05 PM

Originally Posted by Nennx

Do you plan on ever including spell haste into your spreadsheet?

Also, how do you guys feel spell haste effects procs such as LO and LC? It would seem to me as if 1% crit = 1% haste when it comes to this, but I might be missing something.

Ummm, it's already in there...

On ShamStats it's there already, Rotation has it, and ShamanDPS is pre-2.1 as I have yet to update it.

Quasi · 08/09/07, 2:06 PM

Originally Posted by Gira

Other than the sequence of CL, gear & enchants is there anything else I can be doing to maximize my dps as an elemental shaman?

Get quartz, make a stopcast macro, and get used to using it. That will be the best way to improve your dps if you already have the above.

I currently am trying out haste in our raids and will let you know what I find out. With my current haste gear I am at about 1.91 seconds per lb cast so we will see if its a noticable difference over time. I am sacrificing 1-2% crit in the process which may reduce any gains.

Binkenstein · 08/12/07, 7:52 PM

I think I need to relook at my mana regen calculations.

Not so much how it calculates, but rather changing the value on mp5 so that as you get more it is worth less.

Thought about a practical maximum, and do a 1-(Current/Max) multiplier, but that's a little linear. Leaning more towards a log scale so that 1 more mp5 is worth less at 150 than 50.

It's just a matter of nutting out how this should be accomplished.

Thoughts?

Base · 08/14/07, 7:23 AM

Hmm interesting idea.

Maybe you can work a formula around X MP5 makes you go OOM 50% slower, adding 0.5x MP5 reduces it by another 50%.

I dont have the time now to set up some formula myself but its an interesting thought.

Binkenstein · 08/14/07, 6:01 PM

I've put it into the version I uploaded yesterday (only works for Resto atm).

Calc is =ABS(LOG((1-(Current/Max)),2)) which takes the base 2 log of 1-C/M at an absolute value (as logs of sub 1 numbers are negative).

Seems to be ok.

Base · 08/15/07, 10:45 AM

I downloaded the Gear spreadsheet, and it looks like a great tool. However when I sort weapons on DEP all calculated values turn to #N/A. Any idea how I can solve this? It works fine for all other slots.

Edit: When I select another weapon on the first page in my gear selection the same thing happens.

Jini · 08/15/07, 11:35 AM

Originally Posted by Base

I downloaded the Gear spreadsheet, and it looks like a great tool. However when I sort weapons on DEP all calculated values turn to #N/A. Any idea how I can solve this? It works fine for all other slots.

Edit: When I select another weapon on the first page in my gear selection the same thing happens.

The problem appears to be the range given in the VLOOKUP function for all the rows on the first page from the weapon row on down.

All the rows prior have the range from 1:100.

All the rows from weapon on down have the range set to 1:22.

In order to fix it you need to change the range in each column for all those rows.

Base · 08/15/07, 12:08 PM

Thanks for the help!

I edited in some items I had that were not in the list, tried sorting them all again, and suddenly it was working again. If I encounter the problem again I will try this solution, but for now it seems to work again.

Kasi · 08/15/07, 12:14 PM

So I've finally started doing some raiding on my shaman. Mainly just kara right now, but there are some fights that are extremely extremely testing my mana pool.

So far from what I've seen:

Attumen : No issue
Moroes : A little bit, but mainly since I was the kiter and spamming Frost Shock, I also didn't pot as smartly and promptly as I could have.
Big Bad Wolf : No issue
Curator : No issue
Aran : Babysitting Earth shock a lot, no issue
Prince : Sort of an issue, depends on how much dps everyone else is doing.
Nightbane : Similar to prince, only time we did him was with a high dps group so it might be an issue.
Illhoof : Ugh, major major issue. Between the constant magma totems and just how long the fight takes it leaves me toast. Last night ran completely out of mana on that fight.

I don't think having a shadow priest is an option really. JoW is occasionally up, mainly on long boss fights.

I was saving up badges to get my Icon, but I said screw it after the raid last night and bought the totem for 15. I roughly calculated that is worth around 55 mp5 if just doing LB spam. That sound about right?

Also have a question on speccing. Due to how the elemental tree is constructed, everything is divided above and below that 20 point line. I'd love to not put so many points in improved shocks, but not much else to stick it below 20. Can anyone chime in with their opinion on what to give up to get 2 points more in crit chance? LO and Totem of Wrath are no nos. So is range on nukes. So is time off your main nukes. So it leaves threat/hit or mana regen.

Which leads me to think that even with being mana starved on some fights giving up 2 points there is the right choice.

I tried to figure out the math for whether 2% crit gave me more mana regen than 4% of my int as mp5 (which I think is a bit over 400 raid buffed, thus 4% of that being 16 mp5) If my nuke costs 297, (lets say 300) and a crit makes it 120. That means a crit saves me 180 mana. If i crit 100% of the time that would be each crit gives me 1.8 mana. So 2% crit gives me 3.6 mana for a 2 second spell? Which makes it 9mp5? Please tell me if I fubared the math here. Although I think one thing is that going to using that totem will drop the mp5 I get from more crit. While it wouldn't drop the mp5 I get from unrelenting storms.

For consumable usage, basically supers along with adepts. Also wizard oil. I suppose I should go out and get some major magebloods for the long fights, or would it be better to get a flask of mp5 or a flask of supreme power? Oh plus I'm a LW who regularly uses drums of restoration, which does help a bit.

So any advice on:
1) Spec choices (unrelenting vs tidal mastery vs ?)
2) Gear options
3) Consumable usage

Would be appreciated. Thanks.

Quasi · 08/15/07, 3:46 PM

So any advice on:
1) Spec choices (unrelenting vs tidal mastery vs ?)
I'd recommend maxing out nature's guidance to get closer to the hit cap. You will see a noticable dps increase. The spell hit cap is 16%. We get 12% from talents + totem so you will need to find 4% from gear. You are almost halfway there.

Reverberation I found to be more of a pvp talent and not worth the gains per point spent. I'd recomend elemental warding which is highly underrated. If you can shave off 2 pts in elemental you can put those into tidal master to max it out. Its up to you.

2) Gear options
Get that icon and heroic badge shield. Prince neck and dagger will also be great upgrades for awhile. Unfortunately that totem of the pulsing earth is trash for us. The way blizzard calculates reductions puts the reduction before convection and clearcasting. It reduces its effectiveness. Unless that has changed since I last tested it we only save approx 17-18 mana on avg per lightning bolt.

3) Consumable usage
I prefer Flask of Supreme Power if I am going to flask. For double elixirs I use adepts + draenic wisdom. The draenic wisdom provides more mana, small crit chance increase, and is effected by unrelenting storm.

Kasi · 08/15/07, 4:30 PM

1) I normally bring in a couple pieces of gear change for bosses. Mainly scryer's bloodgem and the exalted CE ring. (or the spirit shard one if I don't need as much hit) Add in there that I'm always grouped with a draenei caster and that adds 1% hit you didn't account for. That is why I felt I could live without being maxed there.

On the point of the top 21 elemental talents, well thats the thing. There is nothing good to drop there. 5 points in Lightning Mastery are a must, so is 1 in Fury and 1 in Elemental Mastery. 2 in Storm reach as well. Same with 3 in precision. You gotta get the totem, so 5 in LO and the 1 for totem as well. Which leaves me 3 points. And yeah one talent, that being unrelenting storms. I can see how I could live without that with a shadow priest, but I don't have one.

Good point on Elemental warding yeah I think would be good, mainly for Aran, Prince, maybe Nightbane (not sure)

3) Too late on the totem, I already bought it. I checked it out last night after equipping it. Pre totem my LB was costing 297. After it was costing 274. True its not the full 25 difference because of them calculating the minus from totem before the % change, but I think 23 off each spell would add up for long fights without a shadow priest. At lets say 27 LB casts a minute, that is 621 mana/minute, which is 52 mp5. I don't get a shadow priest, so mana is the issue.

3) Yeah. 30 int is 3 mp5 with unrelenting (if maxed), maybe 0.5% crit and 450 mana or basically 2 LBs. I don't know if that is better than 16 mp5.