kingkaos

Theres not enough spell haste in the game to get LB down that low.

 

Daidalos

1. You would need 33% haste or 519 haste rating (you can get like 150rating or so in BT)
haste is calculated as (1/(1+increase in haste )) * cast time.
So for 15% haste on a lightning bolt it would be (1/1.15) * 2.0 = 1.739s
(I'm aware you can simplify it to cast time / (1+ haste) but I think left as a ratio it makes more sense)

2. yes and most likely LB will be more damage then CL if you have the gear as well. So even with maybe a 1.55s LB if you have enough dmg it would be better. Basically you will never see a constant 1.5s LB without bloodlust though.


as far as dps goes haste is great. I mentioned this in a previous post. But basically 1% haste is always a good chunk better DPS than 1%crit IF you have the mana for it. Remember that you are casting faster not hitting harder so mana / s consumed increases linearly with haste. Basically if you don't have a sprest ur not gonna do more dmg cause while your DPS will increase your time casting before OOM will decrease so it will average out as a wash.

 

Phlis

If the haste mechanics still work the same way as normal, then you just setup an algebra equation which looks like Casttime / 1 + X = New Time. or specifically in this case 2 / 1 + X = 1.5 and you find that x = 1/3. So, essentially 34% haste would be required, which means, in 2.2 34 * 15 = 510, but a little more then that due to rounding. Is that achievable? Well, if you don't substitute in healing gear then no, but you can get pretty close with items and buffs:

2xRing of Anchient Knowledge = 60
Mantle of Nimble Thought = 38
Zhar'doom Greatstaff of the Devourer = 55
Flash Fire Girdle = 37
Bracers of Nimble thought = 28
For a perminant total of 218

Add in some buffs:
Drums of Battle = 80
Skull of Guldan = 175
Quagmirran's Eye = 320

Which gives a controllable spell haste total of 463, with a proc of 6sec for well over the useful limit.

So yes, it's achievable. And no, you wouldn't use Chain lightning if when you procced it.

And Bloodlust/Heroism doesn't really count in these calculations because it lowers the GCD, and therefore increases the "useful" amount of spell haste. 1.5 / 1.3 = 1.15, which would be your new GCD, and with the above spell haste, you're new cast time as well.

 

shortribs

Thanks for a HUGE amount of information on when I spec for DPS... i learned more than a few things in this thread that suprised me ... i'll get into that another time though.

I have one question - slightly off topic - does anyone have a link to a spreadsheet for theorycrafting RESTO builds/gear/etc?

thanks!

 

Podia

Okay so an insane amount of spellhaste then 450-500ish. And no chance near gaining it.
So there will be an even more hard time aming for gear then. But ill think i stick with my orginal gear plan and get the tier 6 and the odd items that can drop from BT/hyjal. Not that there is to much gear to pick from untill future patches are applied. Anyways ill toy around with the numbers a bit and see if i can come up with something decent.

 

Daidalos

One thing I've had trouble testing was that lust lowers GCD. I heard plenty of ppl say this but whenever I've tested I've never gotten actual results lower than GCD (checking my log). I dunno if this was due to my lag or what (I tried with stopcast but maybe i'm just bad). Can anyone verify it lowers GCD? I was under the impression it used to lower GCD but it was changed.

Edit:
I saw this link in the arcane mage thread here:

WoW Forums -> Haste, Heroism, the GCD, and you

 

Nennx

I have been running into GCD problems with heroism. It only seems to happen when I CL; otherwise, I can spam 1.43 LBs without a problem (maybe my timing is off, though). Outside of heroism, I haven't really had the problem, even with CL. Overall though, If you can get the best crit gear possible (exalted scale of sands, hwn ring, supremus bracers, anetheron belt), I think it will end up being better than haste because the GCD can really hurt your dps at times (with quartz).

 

Daidalos

I'd guess that the .07s is eaten by lag even with stopcasting. From everything I've seen and heard from others GCD isn't lowered. So i'd guess that your CL cast is low enough you actually notice the GCD not being lowered but on LB is so close to GCD you don't notice. I wonder the overall dps difference of haste vs crit taking into account bloodlust.

I imagine it would vary depending on length of fight. In a 10 min fight (assuming you don't lust instantly after the pull) only 40/600 secs (~6.6%) of time would be spent lusted. So haste might work out better but on short fights like akama, where half the fight is spent lusted, you are prolly right that crit would be better. With haste being ~1.5x the dps (depending how much crit you have) as crit I think i'd still at least pick up 3-5% haste then go for dmg and crit.

 

Nennx

I'd say its worth picking up both sets, haste perhaps being more dps, but crit for mana and for shorter fights (reliquary and akama come to mind)

 

Daidalos

Agreed. Only thinking long term or only thinking short term.. both extremes are questionable. Be prepared for everything imo and swap gear as appropriate.

 

• Binkenstein

1) 25% * 15.76 rating per % = 394 rating to reduce LB by 0.5 seconds.

2) The same amount of haste would reduce CL to 1.125 seconds, as as haste does not affect the GCD, you'll spend some time waiting, depending on your latency.

 

Eno

Right, I've been following this topic for quite sum time now. Learned a lot from it, thx for everyone that has been submitting and doing research.

I've only recently started raiding with my toon. Originally it was my alt char, that I enjoyed pvping with. Since 3 weeks now, i've been raiding with this char as an elemental shaman. My group mostly consists of 2firemages/crit build shadow priest/ either warlock/resto shaman and me.

I run the usual totems and seeing as i am a leathworker, I spam my drums on cooldown.
Now i like how u did with the graph on the darkmoon trinket. My question is,
In combination with bloodlust, which drums wud actually push my own dps the most or/and which one wud benefit the party the most?

Drums of Battle
Requires Leatherworking (350)
Use: Increases melee, ranged and spell haste rating on nearby party members by 80. Lasts 30 sec.

Drums of War
Requires Leatherworking (325)
Use: Increases attack power by 60 and spell damage by 30 on nearby party members. Lasts 30 sec.

One other question: The Armory
that is my armory. As u can see i run with mostly pvp gear/preraid/craftable stuff. I seem to be doing just fine with it, and simply have been passing on pretty much everything that has dropped so far (cleared kara/mag/gruul and ssc lurker/tidewalker, on our way to leo, TK -voidreaver, dead as well)
Now as u all may agree, we seem to lack some major itemization. I think the worst part of my gear is my weapon which I'm replace soon with the merciless one. What do u think is the next biggest upgrade. I'm saving dkp for the Sextant and waiting for a belt of blasting.

Also, I've been waiting for t4 head and gloves, even tho these are a sidegrade/downgrade for me, I am lacking spellhit and the setbonus wud be quite good for my group. Wud u agree with me on this? Or shud i just grab the merciless headpiece instead?

Here are some wws stats, where i top dmg stats:
Wow Web Stats - lurker
Wow Web Stats - gruul
Wow Web Stats - magtheridon
Now, I've been trying to use that spellrotation with lb12 (3 times) followed by CL, I do notice a bit of dps increase i guess, and it does consume a lot of mana, that my spriest luckily is able to replenish quite good. But does my stats look how they shud be, or are they off in any way?

Another question while i'm at it:
Atm I seem to be going with a mixture still of +spelldmg and +spellcrit even tho my spriest supplies plenty of mana. I seem to favor spellcrit more simply due to the fact i don't wanna depend fully on vampiric touch. Also, since i'm using shiffar and wud like to get my hands on either lightning capacitator/sextant, which requires crit to proc. But even so, at which percentage wud u say it's enuff and i shud focus on spelldmg more. My stats give me numbers of between45-47 spellcrit in a raid environment.

Last question, even tho i know i lack hit, which is gonna be covered quite fast, with some pve gear. I notice the last few raids, that the 5% inate boss's partial spell resist can sometimes matter a lot. While the +80 nature spelldmg flask isn't ingame yet, wud u reckon i shud use Elixir of Empowerment? Atm, i run with adepts elixir and dreanic wisdom.



ps. don't mind my cheap gems/weird gems. (i just chucked in some heroic/green ones and will sort proper ones when i find a bit of gold or replace my gear) sorry for the long post.

 

Daidalos

No bink. 1% Haste is not a 1% percent reduction in cast time. It in effect gives u 1% more attacks in the same amount of time. E.g. with 50% haste cast time is not cut in half its 1/1.5 or 33% reduction.

"1. You would need 33% haste or ~519 haste rating (you can get like 150rating or so in BT)
haste is calculated as (1/(1+increase in haste )) * cast time."

 

• Binkenstein

Ok, apparently it does.

Which makes haste suck just that little bit more.

 

Daidalos

hmm my previous calculations still stand on this nothing has changed. If you had 20% haste spamming LB you would gain 20% more LB casts and those attacks can crit and and proc LO which can also crit. still making haste about 1.5x the dps as crit ( asssuming you aren't hitting the gcd and with 40% crit. note the more crit you have the better haste is in comparison). Its just that 50% haste gives you 50% more attacks not 100% more.

 

Dartan

Quick question, I currently have a sextant and was wondering what I should get for the 2nd trinket slot. Lightning capacitor drop rate is pretty low and can only be done once a week. Other than that, I can probably spend a ton of gold getting a crusade card or farm arcatraz for a shiffar's. Thoughts?

 

Phlis

They both have a 2 minute cooldown, and are on the same cooldown. I tend to use War right away and then every 2 min afterwards until the "last 2 min" of the fight, when I use Battle once or twice. Simple rule: Battle for burning down the last 10-20% of a boss, War for sustained damage. And/Or Drums of Restoration are still awesome, but I've never gotten the pattern. If I did I'd probably carry around all 3, and use them in this order: War/Battle/Resto(to regen after the Battle) or War/Resto/Battle, with the same theory, Restoration would be best used Mid fight to gain back some MP for the group before using Battle.

 

• Binkenstein

I was looking at it from a "reduces cast speed by 20%" rather than a "increases # casts by 20%" way.

 

Dartan

Just want to double check, you don't use drums when you can cast lightning bolt and you only use the drums before the fight, when you can't deal damage (boss invul/absorb), and when your threat is too high? Don't want to waste those cooldowns standing there!

 

Nennx

LC is better, so its worth getting if you want the best possible and don't mind farming kara every week.

 

Dartan

I have a bad feeling it will never drop, so I'm thinking about just buying crusade

 

Phlis

Nah, I use them whenever the cooldown is up, unless I've got shiffar's or T4 proc going. 5 GCDs over 10 minutes isn't that huge a deal, no it's not perfect dps, but they're decent group buffs, 30 spell damage for 30 sec with a 90 sec cooldown, 10(50 for the group) total damage. 80 spell haste will be 5% haste in 2.2, and 600health and mp(3k each total) over 15 seconds. Just handy things to be able to throw out there for the group.

 

JoeCoul

To add to this thread, recently I have been running Dr. Damage and its reports show CL is much more mana efficient (dpm) I am not sure why this keeps showing up because it is quite obvious it is not. Yet in boss battles when I cycle it into my rotations I do not notice a decrease in dpm but rather an increase. So is this true? Or is it possible all my mods are just way out of whack? Also to note that I do have a 25% spell crit self buffed over that boss fight so I do crit a lot when I have full raid buffs.

 

Nennx

Because it assumes you are hitting all three targets. When you hit three targets with CL, its more DPM, when you do not, it is obviously not.

 

Benjaimn

Assuming your group will not have mana problems, wouldn't Battle always be better? I figured a 2.5% faster casting speed for the group would return more dps then 30 +dmg, but I haven't done any math or anything I just assumed.