madmanme

Ok, I'm lost.

I was looking at this fellows armory profile: The Armory

and comparing it to mine: The Armory

and then looking at his WWS files for Gruul's: Hori - WWS

And my question is this:

How do you get a non crit LB to average 1728 - mine don't even hit for 1700 - I would average 1400-1600. What am I doing wrong?

Mad.

 

Benjaimn

Take a closer look at his WWS, he obviously had a BM hunter in his group. Also you have LC equipped, this is known to lower what your average LB number is in WWS, and in a real time note LC will not add to your LB damage just your total dmg. He has Icon and Nexus Horn both add to your LB dps not just your over all dps.

 

madmanme

Ahhh, thank you very much.

Mad.

 

Dartan

Isn't the drum range pretty small?

 

Narfwak

There's an enhance shaman in there too - stormstrike is very sexy indeed. It's not hard to hit over 2k LB with stormstrike and misery up. My only caveat with it is that it gets consumed by LC procs and other random crap like rogue poisons. Fortunately for me my guild runs low on rogues, so I get stormstrike all to myself.

 

Nennx

Do your rogues use instant poison offhand?

 

Narfwak

Most of the time I'm wondering if our rogue(s) are even awake or on vent, much less using poisons.

 

Reddayspring

Edit: I'm retarded don't mind me.

 

Zifna

Hey... this may or may not be the best place for this, but I was wondering if some of the other high-end Elemental shaman here could give me a hand.

Here is a WWS parse of my damage on Rage Winterchill (probably only good for another week or so, we're on the free account):

Wow Web Stats

992 dps, which is pretty standard I think for me with a Shadow Priest in a single-target situation if I don't have an Enh Shaman. I can get higher with one. It is probably worth noting that we lost our Enhancement Shaman a few weeks ago, so that I know will impact my damage somewhat.

It is also true that I have significantly less +dmg than many Elemental Shaman in top guilds:
The Armory. This shows me as 938, I think that that's 17 higher than it really is due to Divine Spirit... figure around 920 unbuffed, and I just got my weapon upgrade in my last raid, so I was at 888 unbuffed before that. I also don't have the Totem off of Teron yet. I've got a little under 22% crit chance unbuffed and untalented.

However, even so, I have seen Elemental Shaman putting up numbers in the 1300s, some at almost 1400 dps. Without an Enh Shaman and without the extra 150-200 damage these guys on me, that might be too lofty a target for me to hit. But we just found a new Enh Shaman and even with the lack of gear I would think that getting over 1200 regularly, and higher as I upgrade my gear, is a difficult but realistic goal. I was wondering if you guys could provide any insight into the dps divide?

I'd noticed many of these 1300s Shaman don't use Chain Lightning on bosses, but I'm not sure I understand why. Even if you had 4 piece Skyshatter, wouldn't the substantially lower cast time make it a good thing to work into your damage dealing?

Thanks for any help you can provide.

 

Suazo

I would think no spell penetration in your chest, trash ring from Kara if you have it, as well as Xiri's Gift instead of Airman's trinket.

I'm also assuming you're doing some pvp or else you wouldn't take Eye of the Storm or Ancestral Healing? I'd take the 3 points from EotS and put 2 in Unrelenting Storm and 1 in Elemental Warding, or 1 and 2.

 

Nennx

Honestly, your dps doesn't seem THAT low...You just need more gear and the gap will close pretty quick. The biggest upgrade I can see is replacing that ribbon thing with LC. Also, I'm not sure why people wouldn't be using CL either, even with 4/5 skyshatter. The only time I don't use it is during heroism since haste makes it too easy to hit the global cooldown. CL usually makes up about 15% of my total damage. Also, I'm curious as to where you see logs of these 1300 dps shaman...As far as I know, theres not very many people with the gear for it.

 

Zifna

First off I should probably clarify that I am looking for playstyle advice rather than advice on marginal upgrades to my gear or talents... I'm aware of some issues with both and have been pondering what I ought to do.

However, since you took the time to make specific comments, allow me to respond... I'd prefer the discussion moved to general issues however. I usually am in Xi'ri's, I'd switched to the Airman's Ribbon to try to farm Consortium rep and didn't notice when I tossed armory up there. The trash ring in Kara has never dropped while I was in raid (note that I am exalted). I cannot remove points from the Resto tree without losing the 5% crit talent, and Ancestral Healing is a wonderful place for them... When I do need to support heal, my high crit makes this talent superbly effective for me. If I could take talents out of EotS and put them in Unrelenting Storm I would do so in a heartbeat, but I can't due to the Utterly Stupid talent placement in the Elemental tree. I could take them out of EotS and put them in Elemental Warding, but I hadn't had problems staying alive/taking heavy damage in fights with Frost, Fire, or Nature damage up to this point so I didn't see a big need. We're going to pull RoS in the next week or two and I plan to respec to 5 second shocks then to see how useful this is, and then have no points in EW or EoTS (still debating where I should get the 5th point from, or if I can forego that and still do a reasonable test). If I don't feel this is useful I'll probably put 3 points in EW when I go back. The gem was a mistake based on data I had seen that indicated bosses did have base resists... I have corrected the majority of this mistake but since I have the BT Trash drop chest and am simply waiting for either Belt or Bracers to equip it, I opted not to replace the one in my chestpiece.

As far as the comments from the next poster... I'm already wearing a LC in my other slot... and the items are unique. I can't wear two, even though it would be awesome.



The armory link was simply provided for your convenience. Much of what you listed has no effect on DPS and the rest has only minimal impact. It might explain 990 dps instead of 1010, but it doesn't explain ~1000 dps instead of 1300.

As for where I found these high numbers, If you search for WWS parses of given bosses, you can look at the highest dps guilds in the worlds' kills. You can then look at the shaman in these parses.

Part of the reason for the extremely high numbers might be that the dps of the rest of their guild is such that the overall impact of Bloodlust on personal dps is higher due to the shorter fight length... but if that's the case I am curious to know. If you look at EJ parses you can see Eswedge pulling over 1300 on Rage and Conando pulling ~1160 on Anatheron, where you lose dps time to switching targets. And both of them use few to no Chain Lightnings on these pulls!
Conando - WWS
There were other guilds with Ele Shaman able to put up similar numbers--go ahead and look


Maybe there is no secret, and it's all circumstantial stuff. But... good to know, if so! And if there is a 'secret', good to know also. ^_^

 

Daidalos

I assume you are stopcasting your LB and CL?

If so really the most important thing is positioning. Know the fight know where to stand. Make so you never have to move or move very little. Really stopcasting and positioning are the 2 biggest I think.

 

Zifna

Yeah, I /stopcast

 

Daidalos

Ok what kinda dps do you get on Dr boom? I dunno if its a setup issue or lag or somthing else. Single target LB spam since the CL on Dr Boom tend to hit the bombs and inflate your typical single target dps numbers

 

Doofy

Well i agree positioning with stopcasting is very important.

I have 4/5 T6 and i mostly just spam lb, because the dmg Boost due Cl is so poor compared to lb, that i dont think its worse taking the higher mana costs. i think something quite nice is to time bloodlust, i relay love having a T6 Shadow in my Group so i dont need to usw so many mana pots and hav cd open for destruction potions, these plus a trinket and maby a unstabble curret proc are realy nice for dps.

 

Kaideq

I think you misread the gear differences.
The spelldmg differnence is 100 ish just flat from gear +45 from t6 + the coefficient bonus from 4 set. And some crit
For me LB"s avarage at 2853 per hit according to dr dmg self buffed, oil(cheap one with just dmg)/elixirs(im cheap/lazy)/ food.
Disregarding lag with stopcasting you only need to scrape off partials and resists for your dps just spamming bolts. Putting me in the area you discribed.

I can't speak for others , but In my case I usually just bolt to be able to spotheal / fix retarded healer mistakes. In the end we're hybrids and should be able to help out on multiple fronts.
Tanking/Healing are the departments in raid were you need to be focussed, always on farm shit and whatnot, how boring it may get after a while , as dps you can kick back and relax giving only 90% iso 110% as other reason.

Assuming no slack or "helping" I'd only conclude gear difference and consumable differences.
Flask, dmg/crit oil vs elixirs/dmg oil or less use of destro pots.
^^ if you did the same dmg as the people you mentioned in t6 in your t4/crafted ;D it'd be really bad.
Don't worry about it, t6 increases your dmg in jumps you'll get there soon enough ^^ + you're lucky enough to have the LC already so only 1 trinket slot you need to fill.

 

Platronix

Amen. Grouping with a Shadow Priest helps out a lot. You could save the pot cool down for destruction potions rather than having to use a mana pot. Another 120 spell damage sure does help out from time to time.

 

Kasi

I really need to work on upping my prescence time. I find that when I dps my numbers are pretty high, even without use of stopcasting. But I find my raw dps to be middle of the road because I'm consistently lower on presence than most of our other dps'ers. Of course this is mostly on Gruul, so maybe that is with the particulars of that fight. But I need to figure a way to make sure I'm dps'ing as effectively as I can.

 

Platronix

I think someone mention earlier in the post Kasi about knowing the boss fight and finding a good position. But indeed, i need to work on that myself. There are times when i find myself running around rather than dpsing.

 

Ames_01

My experience shaman generally have a lower presence time because of dropping totems. You loose ~7% dps presence because of dropping totems, and then factor in waiting for tank agro, moving out of aoes etc, your presence should probably be around 7% less than other dps classes (i believe enhance doesnt have this problem)

heres an example of a fight where i dotn have to bother with my totems
Wow Web Stats
The boss itself (all wws records) only lasts 1 minute, so i time my totems so that i dont have to lay them at all when the boss is out

That compared to a fight like
Wow Web Stats
where i have to drop and redrop totems, leaving my dps time slightly below the mages

 

Benjaimn

I never seem to have that problem according to my WWS. But it could be that I host my WWS locally and the equation for presence might be off.

WWS History (All Players > Benjaimn)

 

Kasi

Some questions here about maximizing dps in groups with a shadow priest. Trial applicant in a much more advanced guild than our previous one and I'm looking for ways to maximize my dps in a SP/Ele Shaman/3 Mage group.

I'm specced 41/0/20, with the 2 missing points in elemental being the 2 points in unrelenting storms. Shadow priest will likely be very well geared, so I'm thinking of ways to up my dps.

1) I normally use drums of restoration as my drums of choice, since mana regen is always an issue and getting more mana to my group as well as some health has been very nice. Now of course this looks to be more useless.

So drums of war or drums of battle (5k rep or so away on that). 30 spell damage for the group or 80 haste rating? I have the feeling the answer will eventually be haste everytime except for when heroism is up, then use spell damage because I'm worried about heroism + drums will drop my LBs below 1.5 second casts. However for the group battle is probably better since mages are most likely fire and thus GCD won't be an issue. If they are arcane though, then War would seem the better choice due to spamming of Arcane Blast.

2) Rotation of spells. Currently I just spam Lightning Bolt as it works best. However with better raid dps and a shadow priest using CL would seem to be a good choice, well at least when heroism isn't up. How often should I use CL? I'm thinking of trying something like 6/1 or 7/1 to start to see how it works. Gladly I should be able to not use the heroic badge totem and can use the Mech one full time.

3) Consumable usage. This is tied into the next question, but with a shadow priest will I need to spam super mana pots at all times? I have demonic runes too, but for sure I am taking out drums of restoration from my rotation in favor of more damage. Could it be possible to use destruction pots?

4) Synergy on heroism. I usually time it so my icon is up when heroism spam is up. Shiffar might come up during it, might not, too hard to predict. But my plan for right now is to use super manas most of the time but when its time for heroism to use drums of war, Icon, and a destruction pot for maximum damage.

Any other suggestions? I'll need to wait til I log on with my mods and such to see what the latency is there and if I need to learn how to stopcast. What would you consider the breakoff point for lat at which its better to stopcast?

 

Kelorius

If you really want to use drums and use them diligently I would say the best options are Battle or War. Personally, I stopped using drums as I frequently forgot to use the drums and their short range limits their effectiveness -- 10 yards is the range.

Spell rotation is 3 LB 1 CL. Rinse repeat. A well geared shadow priest will help immensly in keeping this rotation. There will be times where you will still need to use mana potions but far less than without a shadow priest. I typically like to open any Boss encounter with Elemental Mastery + CL then go into rotation from there. When Elemental Mastery comes back up if I am in the middle of a rotation I wait to use it before the next Chain Lightning. It is a little thing that has helped more with my mana usage than anything else.

On heroisms, I would agree that stacking your Icon + Heroisms would be a good idea. However, a use trinket or elemental mastery would be about all I would do for heroisms. I like setting up for Heroisms then just having 45 seconds of pure damage output. Otherwise you are cutting into potential DPS output.

 

vokzhen

Be nice to your shadow priest, and work together with him to try and time Bloodlust with his Shadowfiend (he trinkets->shadowfiend, you bloodlust right after). Drop Strength of Earth when it's out if you can as well. More mana for him = more mana for you :D
While I'd probably stick with mana pots at first, you might want to consider bringing destruction pots as well if you even find yourself absolutely not needing the extra mana.
I think the shaman I'm grouped with usually go ahead and do the 3/1 rotation, at least until mana starts becoming more of an issue.
[Chain of the Twilight Owl]. It wins for crit-heavy DPS groups, and will probably leave a good impression on them :D