New versions of ShamSpells & ShamStats are up.

ShamSpells has some updates relating to regen, should be a bit more accurate now. Also changed how the rotations calculate, and where LO comes into the calcs. Need to add in a set bonus option as well at some point too

ShamStats is updated for 2.3 changes (as far as I can tell anyway). I'll start working on adding rotations in, and add in set bonuses for this as well. The only problem I can see is how to adjust the set item values for the bonus. ie: do I create a value for the bonus and asign it to each set item or base it on the # of other set items already equipped (either 3 or 4 on, depending on whether it's adding the possible bonus from changing an item, or the current bonus from items equipped).
One interesting thing to note is that with the change with LB & LO has improved how useful Haste is for us

Hey, I just wanted to run this by a few folks to make sure this is correct.

Last Friday I tried a different gearset from what I normally use.

I had swapped out my Stormsong kilt for the Tier 4 pants, and my Xi'Ri's gift for the Darkmoon Card:Crusader and ended up dropping somewhere in the range of 50-80 dps.

Now I know this is on Gruul, so that's not the best fight for Crusader but it just seems like both those pieces (and 4pc T4 now that it no longer persists for 15 seconds) are completely worthless. Is that right though?

Since you are hit capped with stormsong on, there's no point in switching to t4 pants really.
I wouldn't bother with Crusader either tbh.

What? Jesus Christ. Might as well vendor the pants.

Yeah, I noticed it was being consumed on the first cast the whole night. I was a bit choked since I just got the pants two weeks ago, but really Stormsong have better stats anyway. Crusader I'm more upset about, but really I should be more upset with my luck. 14 weeks on Testrian and still no Lightning Capacitor.

I'm curious to see what your wws parses look like. I wonder if its a difference in tanks or gear that makes threat so much of an issue. After aggro is established its a full out burn for me and I rarely ever catch up to the tank after that.

Oh and something else i was thinking about our dps uptime and threat is that you should be able to switch totems without GCD when you have a totem of that school up already. Like wrath->tranq or FR->mana spring or something like that, that would help the threat problem a lot imo you could just pop down tranq outside of GCD if you get too high on threat and then switch back to wrath when it gets better. 1 GCD = nearly 2200 damage raidbuffed for me. This might introduce a new totem twisting for enhancement shamans, but i think that will be a nonissue because it will drain their mana rather fast if they switch between WF and GoA all the time. Plus the totemswitching could be on a different GCD, like warrior stances or something. I think i'll go write this up on the suggestion forums too some time :P

I'm not quite sure if Totem twisting is actually intended by Blizzard and thus I seriously doubt they will want to expand on it. The initial requirement of having a maximum of 1 Totem per school becomes pretty awkward once they implement and encourage totem twisting on a larger scale.
I think it might even be more realistic that they will eventually get rid of totem twisting completely similar to how they fixed rogue getting extra energy ticks through the timing of their openers.

Well the twisting only really is an issue with the weapon totems, since their buff lasts 10 seconds, so you can put down wf/ft and then switch to goa/searing for the next 8 seconds. That could be fixed by putting a 10 second cooldown on both weapon totems. All the other totems effects are instantaneous. They end as soon as the totem is destroyed. And you still have the one totem per school limit, only you can switch them more easily depending on the situation needed.

Mp5 is worth a great deal less now. It seems that a value for crit is being subtracted from the value for Mp5. Why is that?

Heh, I was thinking about what I wanted in spells for WotLK the other day and this came to mind. Something which would really benefit this class would be if each tree had 4 totems to cast which buffed their respective jobs. If Elemental had an Earth Totem which buffed spell haste, and Enhancement had a Fire Totem which buffed Melee Haste, both of those specs would be "complete" in my mind. All that would be necessary in my mind would be a Resto centric fire totem.

I agree with you. I think the reason Blizzard is seeing threat as an issue is because they don't play themselves on a higher level. In the lower lvl plays (5-mans, karazhan..) threat and mana is more of an issue, when you go into 25-man raidsyou will always have a Shadow Priest and a Paladin to give you Salvation, this is required by most other classes as well.
Since Blizzard doesn't play themselves, they have to get their info from somwhere, and the official forum is crowded with people whining about threat and mana issues.

The cloak enchant for -2% threat will always enable you to do 2.04% more damage than previously without pulling agro.

With a tank doing 1000 tps if you got -2% threat you could do 1000/0.98 = 1020.4 dps before pulling agro. Which is 2.04% more damage.
1000 dps with salv and tranquil air gives 1000/0.7/0.8=1785.7 dps before pulling agro. If you got -2% threat then you could do 1785.7/0.98=1822.15 dps before pulling agro which is 1822.15/1785=1.0204 or 2.04% more damage.

6k->20k is 14k threat 14000*/0.7/0.8=25000 damage. Yeah that is some serious damage in 2 spells. If both proced Lightning overload thats still an average of 6250 damage per bolt. Say both of them proced double LO's thats 4166.6 average damage per bolt which sounds reasonable especially if stormstrike is involved.

With a tank doing 1000tps you'll need to do more than that.

10% less threat from talents
30% less from Salv
2% from cloak enchant

this gives the following:
0.9*0.7 = 0.63 = 63% threat
0.9*0.7*0.98 = 0.6174 = 61.74% threat

Thusly the enchant is roughly worth -1.24% threat

This means if a tank is doing 1000 tps, you'll need to do 2105 dps to pull agro. This is including the 130% that you need to pull agro from range. (threat * 1.3)/0.6174
Without the enchant it's 2063 dps, which still gives that 2.04% "increase".

If you do 1000 dps, the tank needs to generate roughly 475 tps to hold agro. (dps/1.3)*0.6174

4166 was quite near to my average crit damage without WoA or stormstrike, at that moment i had a destro pot up, got 3 LO procs off 2 spells + 2 LC procs, everything critted. No stormstrike, didn't even have an enh shaman in the raid. On a sidenote, my best crit on Illidan is 5865, and he wasn't in trap. This was pre-relentess nerf ofc. Sickest burst i've ever seen. Ever. And those threat calculations seem right, even though they feel kinda wrong but i can't really argue with the math :P

And for the record, the Illidan overaggro was when i was doing ~1900 dps (according to the fubar DPSfu plugin) for something like 25-30 secs. I was admiring the damagemeters and didn't really pay attention to threat, gg back to UBRS for me :/

The value for mp5 completely changed between this version and the previous one as well.

Right now, in early kara gear where I'm having mana problems the spreadsheet is showing +damage well ahead of mp5, and crit. The value for Intellect dropped by about 50%. Only +spell hit is well up, right until it is worth nothing if I swap gear in to increase that to the cap.

I forgot the talent but you are still comparing absolute differences of percentages instead of comparing them proportionally. 63/61.74=1.0204 or 2% difference in threat generated.
In fact the absolute amount of extra damage before excessive agro is more from the cloak enchant the more you stack threat reducing abilites.
1000 tps with salv and talent requries 1000/0.9/0.7=1587.7 dps to have tank parity
Adding a cloak enchant to that 1587.7/0.98=1619.7 dps to have tank parity or 32 more dps enabled from the cloak.
1000 tps with just the cloak 1000/0.98=1020.4 or 20.4 more dps to have tank parity. So we have thus demonstrated that the value of the cloak enchant in terms of how much more dps you can do increases as the number of other threat reducing abilities increases. Calculating 30% excess too pull agro just magnifies the difference.

I generally get all my guild mates yelling at me when I start climbing 20% past the tanks threat Seeing myself a 1/3 ahead of everyone else is fun though

At least we get to be on the top of the meters for something!

Curse of Elements affecting us would be nice, but at least in my guild, I'd almost never see it. All the mages have jumped on the arcane train. The only person getting CoE would be me, which isn't an effective use of a curse. I personally wouldn't mind a change to Stormstrike and be somewhat dependent on the enhancement for synergy. Perhaps make it only apply to magical sources of nature damage, which are a bit easier to control the use of.

I really think we could use another bonus that justifies putting us in a caster group instead of a resto shaman. Totem of Wrath is great and all, but in 2.3 when resto mana spring is an extra 25 mp5 plus mana tide, it's tough to justify 3% crit (and whatever damage casters have added IF they work around my 4% hit, so the hit on the totem isn't wasted) vs. the extra mana that allows them to push harder and be more sustainable.

Maybe they can change totem of wrath to 3% crit and 3% haste rather than hit. Since most folks, especially shammies, are already at or near hit cap without the totem.

Still waiting for all those WWS reports of shaman using 3/1 rotations on fights over 5 minutes without using regen consumables. A quick glance through lossendil.com shows almost all elemental shaman favoring LB heavily.

Barring certain fights, threat is really only an issue in the opening seconds of an encounter, or rather the opening seconds after a threat wipe. But every second you have to throttle early on can really hurt your dps, especially on shorter fights where the dps loss in 2.3 will be most noticeable. Having to hold back for 5 seconds on a 3 minute fight (or rather 5 seconds out of every 3 minutes) is almost a 3% loss in dps. This alone is enough to recoup most of the damage lost in 2.3.

Still, Shaman is a class that has very little options to vary DPS. Once you get some spell haste, it will not be favorable to use Chain Lightning any more cause of the Global Cooldown. Maybe it is some high amount, but since it is already 1.5 sec casts it feels like it shouldn't be that much. (Considering you will be near 1300 spell dmg with totem down+buffs).

I still don't think "you can throw Chain Lightning into the dps" is a good reason for giving us some more mana regen. Feels like it's more a fix for the casual Karazhan or 5-man Shaman which don't have any Shadow Priest. Don't have any WWS parse, but if you have 2 Shadow Priests you can easy keep up with a 3/1 rotation and not even seeing your mana bar moving.