I just talked to an old friend (elemental shaman).
He told me his DPS on 2.3 is 400 DPS lower as on 2.2. He did about 10 test runs on Dr.Boom. It's always the same, 800 DPS on 2.3, 1200 DPS on 2.2. Guys, that scares me....
TLC is definetly needed to reduce from the gap between 2.2 and 2.3 but i dont think it can buff the dps after 2.3 but will definetly help since u will get more crits, anyway some good news more or less... LO can proc clearcasting or so i head and they fixed the issues with LB and LO doing same dmg because of the LO proc, the stopcasting implemented it feels like its a bit bugged on PTR so the best way to test it is probably on life server, atm is lagging like hell and even though its suposed to help with the lag issues it doesnt, not with more then 600ms atm on PTR is realy lagging badly 1 spell casted every 3sec if not more
I just talked to an old friend (elemental shaman).
He told me his DPS on 2.3 is 400 DPS lower as on 2.2. He did about 10 test runs on Dr.Boom. It's always the same, 800 DPS on 2.3, 1200 DPS on 2.2. Guys, that scares me....
I am sure its because its the latency on the PTR this morning i had 1100 dps now with so much lag barely managed 900.. the stopcasting from blizzard its not working properly. The nerf is there but not that big.
What to say really, after seeing these last news I jumped on and can only confirm that LO is now a simply 50% cut for the entire spell including spelldmg.
Also what I noticed from when I went on (had a 10 min sample) was that it doesnt seem that the blizzard /stopcasting feature is actually working atm. Anyone else who can confirm or negate this?
Either way my DPS dropped horrendously, and well since I belive the stopcasting feature is not working that may very well be the biggest reason so the whole little test I made doesnt really show how the LO "fix" effected DPS.
Right, can also confirm that regular LBs does not get effected by the LO "debuff" as it seems to be removed in some way. Also I had 0 chain procs during this period.
big sigh though, this looks like a really hard hit to elemental DPS.
From what I can tell, the Blizz /stopcasting feature seems to be working (although my latency is low this morning, so it's difficult to say for sure). But there's a bug on the PTR currently where trying to cast a spell too early will start a new GCD, which could be what people are seeing. I.e. if you try to cast a new LB 1/10 of a second too early, you'll be unable to cast another for 1.4 seconds after the first one completes.
Math aside whats frustrating me is I've yet to see if the damage nerf in intentional or not, ie. are the developers happy that the damage loss is justified by the additional longevity and threat reduction.
The posts from Eyonix on the official boards this week (WoW Forums -> Eyonix's Shaman is elemental) seemed to indicate that changes could occur - but I've seen a lot of posts like this in the past that either just petter out or come back several weeks later with 'sorry we're happy with how it is now' it would be nice to have this information up front.
Credit must go to the Shaman community for the extensive testing that they have done on this, if they changes do go in it won't be from lack of effort from our side.
This stuff is really depressing. I really need to work on my enhancement gear. Blizzard really looks out to kill the spec. Can anyone who is testing on the PTR confirm issues on chain casting LB not giving 20% LO rate, but more like 14%?
From what I understand the proc is lower than 20% because of the theorized 3second 'cooldown' on the overload effect - so when chain casting LB's if you get a proc (and assuming no lag) your next 1-2 LB's have a zero change to proc lightning overload.
Well yeah thats what I've been talking about, and many people who've been on the PTR have reported that, but I was wondering what anyone from here had done on tests like that.
LO is definitely now a straight 50%, no longer just 50% of the base. (of all the things for them to actually change...unbelievable)
LO crits proc an LC electric charge. This made it look like an LO proc off an LO, but it wasn't. In 100's and 100's of casts, I did not see LO proc off itself.
The casting mechanic to remove the need for /stopcasting has definitely changed...it doesn't seem like it's just lag. Something is different than it was yesterday.
Last edited by Grave-Arygos : 10/20/07 at 1:41 PM.
Well last night when I was testing I didn't have any lag since hardly anyone was on late in netherstorm. But my average dps on Test was about 1010-1020, with a shadow priest there so misery buff was active. On live my dps was pretty constant at 1050, of course without misery.
On a mana longevity point though, I ran out of mana on live after about 2 minutes each test, while on the test realm the average test was close to 4 minutes long. Thats kind of a big boost.
All i see these days its nerf nerf nerf.. all tests show same thing.. we get nerfed by around 9% overall, anyone knows anything a bit more optimistic? I love to be elemental in raids but after the patch if my dps will so bad, now that the mages are getting buffed the difference will so big will be embarrassing to keep a spot in raids, the only choice is to go resto witch i was for more then 2 years before going elemental.. i realy dont want to go resto again, quit or go resto in pve is not what i expected from blizzard tbh, they are makeing a big mistake.
So, anything optimistic about 2.3 for us elemental shammys?
PS: dont even try to start with the MORE MANA shit i am tired of it.
All it is is a fairly weak DPM buff, and to anywhere get close to regaining our old dps we have to go max CL and pot heavy, which kills anything of the gains. It's just a horrible nerf, amounting currently to about 9-10% theoretically and anywhere from 9-15% in testing on the PTR. This is just a complete and total failure on Blizzard's part and god I hope someone there wakes up and fixes this "buff" we're getting.
About the only up side is that with the /stopcasting fix, we should be able to dps a bit more.
Generally, we could match mages for dps (and I've seen a good ele shaman beat mages from time to time), but if we have a 500ms lag, we get 1.5 seconds of lag compared to a mages 1 second, which adds up.
Most of the time we've been looking at lag free hypothetical situations, as well as excess mana, as we've ways to get around both. In the long run the potential dps we could do has been decreased, but we may end up doing more in the long run due to other changes.
Any buff to stopcasting is not a buff at all because it affects other classes too. It will help mages spamming arcane blast just as much as us. It shouldn't matter how the changes for casting affect us, since they will affect all casters pretty much. And I don't run with 500 ms lag, and I'm sure most here don't as well. I run at 130 to 150 or so. So there will be a much bigger gap between us and other casters. Will it be profitable now to put an elemental in a caster group, when our only buff is 3% hit/crit? Just stick a resto shaman in there who gives a lot more mana back.
What matters is the numbers. Mages are getting their coefficient penalty removed and we are losing 9% dmg off our LB/CL. There is no way we can compete as things stand now. Funny enough enhancement at T6 level tend to beat elemental anyway, so I'm guessing if this goes through a lot of us will be going enhancement. I know I will.
About the only up side is that with the /stopcasting fix, we should be able to dps a bit more.
Generally, we could match mages for dps (and I've seen a good ele shaman beat mages from time to time), but if we have a 500ms lag, we get 1.5 seconds of lag compared to a mages 1 second, which adds up.
Most of the time we've been looking at lag free hypothetical situations, as well as excess mana, as we've ways to get around both. In the long run the potential dps we could do has been decreased, but we may end up doing more in the long run due to other changes.
If you look at the mage calculations done by vontre in the mage thread as well as what current warlocks do even before the stopcasting fix I don't see how we could ever match that dps on a single target with 0 lag and the best items out of BT/hyjal. I don't really think we should be able to out dps a mage or a lock but the gap seems very wide atm.
I'm more looking at the fact that an ele shaman and a fire mage have 2 second and 3 second nukes respectivly.
With 500ms lag, every minute we'd get 24 casts to their 17
With the change, we'd get 30 to their 20, an increase of 6 over our previous figure, and 10 more than them (where in 2.2 it would be 7). This is why I think Blizzards early testing showed a boost, along with that LO damage "bug", and why I think that stopcasting change will do more for us than mages/locks
TLC won't reduce the gap because in 2.3, LO proc crits can no longer charge it.
And poster 5 posts above you says it can.
Too much misinformation and rumors without actual testing in this thread. We really need to figure all aspects of new Lighting Overload and then ask devs if its working as intended and how about some dps buffs.
10/20/07, 9:22 AM
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