• Binkenstein

It's Excel 2003. No macro's, no later version. Nothing. So if you can't open it I'm not sure what's going on

Could try zipping it up once I've finished the enchant selector.

 

maha

Sorry to post in this thread but i couldn't find any other Elemental threads.

Two things:

I noticed while having LO that if i crit and LO procced that the extra lightningbolt/Chain lightning would use the clearcasting i got from the first spell. Is this supposed to happen are is it not intended since LO says it is supposed to be a "free" spell.

Secondly does anyone know a mod that announces if LO procs? Much thanks

 

Meredrica

i personally use SCTD and simply get 2 lines right next to each other instead of with a small gap. since the combatlog doesn't say anything about a LO proc you can't realy write a mod for it realy (well you should be able to write a mod that checks the time between your LB's and if it's below 1 second display something. dunno if that is possible tho, i didn't do much lua scripting yet)
you must have some bugs in that spreadsheet if it comes to FS.
if i add 10 flameshocks and 0 LB, with 1 point in reverberation and no misery up and leave the rest untouched, i get to 1.3k dps... that can't be right can it?

 

f1reburn

I am using Excel 2003 at the moment, but the problem for me isn't opening the spreadsheet, the problem is actually starting the download. Zipping up the file would probably not help much unfortunately.

To stop my derail: Bop has updated his dps calculator, under this new url: http://www.stasistech.com/wow/

 

• Binkenstein

hmmm, alternate hosting required then.

I'll see what I can come up with.

 

Voltan

Sounds about right after a quick look. Gearwise it works out, I have 42.34% raid buffed without moonkin and I have some, but not all of that stuff yet.

On an amusing note: Imagine that gear set-up with a Boomkin and 3 Elemental shaman, stacking totem of wrath for +9% crit along with +5% from the druid makes an extra 14% on top of the 45.39% = 59.39% - Insane!

 

Gruul

Finding the most comfortable (i.e. dps efficiency, reasonable aggro level, reasonable mana efficiency) cycle is what I'm focusing on right now myself. I've been trying both cycle and slight spec variations recently, just to see the impact to dps/aggro/mana levels in all group sizes, from 5's to 10's to 25's.

Better dps cycles/rotations for 25-mans is what I'd like to talk about most here.

So far, it seems to me there's never an absolute best cycle. Raid make-up and the encounter targets change things, sometimes more significantly than I expect.

To this point, I've had a soft spot for FS for its natural low-aggro component, especially early in fights, and its synergy with our friendly mages (who typically love us elemental shaman around as much as they do their spriests, who we also <3 to death), yet there's no denying it comes with some drawbacks, as already quoted above.

Chain ltng I'm reluctant to mix in because of CC issues at times, though it's an option, and a good, talented one, when CC isn't a worry. Great dps boost despite its high mana consumption, burst aggro risk, and GCD.

Ultimately, it just doesn't seem most efficient or highest DPS (nevermind fun!) to spam one single spell in LB all the time. From my experience, mixing in some combination of FS and/or CL in there makes you a more effective DPS'er than straight up lbolting.

It's just that you have to manage the very real limitations and drawbacks of those two spells efficiently enough so that a) they make a positive difference in your dps, b) they don't cost you too much time to use in conjuction with LBs, and c) they don't kill you from burst aggro (i.e. CL, not FS in this case).

So fight to fight, boss to boss, I'm doing a little bit of experimenting when I can. So far, I like what I see out of mixing in FS when its short range isn't a concern. By comparison I haven't done enough experimenting with CL in my typical cycle to have confidence that it's also a good option for certain, if not more or all, encounters. On paper, all that extra damage and crit % that comes with CL seems that it should indeed be as good option.

Mixing in all of them - LBs, CL, FS - as a regular cycle is something I need more time to experiment with more as well. This last cycle is obviously a huge mana sink even though it looks potent - I'm definitely curious if it's sustainable for me through spriest help and potions/alchemist's stone.

 

Gabnakh

If I have the mana I usually do the lb lb lb cl rotation. However, most of the time it's such a mana sink that I can't see it through, so I usually switch between that rotation and simple lb spam when I need to conserve mana.
I personally don't really like flame shock, mostly for two reasons: It has a very short range, so there are limitations to positioning when using it, and, when shocking after a lb, it will hit before the lb, so it will never get the clearcasting effect, unless following a cl (and then we have a huge mana sink). I usually only use FS when moving around in a mobile encounter, if I happen to be close enough to the mob.

 

Aximous

Don't know if this has been discussed alredy, but is there anyone how done some theorycraft about does it worth taking insightful earthstorm diamond over destructive skyfire diamond? It could give some extra mana but I don't know if it actually ends up better then the other one.

 

• Binkenstein

Depends if you are going OOM or not.

If you are, get insightful, if you aren't, destructive.

 

• Binkenstein

Updates!

Ok, so I've been slack recently, but I've finished off my enchant selector (think I've got all the enchants we'd want for ele/resto gear listed), and made a little user interface updates (renamed gem selection to selection, added in more yellow squares, more list references).

Should be able to go back and add in the rest of the Teir 4 raid loots now (keep adding in instance/raid loots as I need to compare them anyway)

Also, there's an alt-download location in my sig now, with the update date in case someone cant get the first link.

 

zaulsiin

I was wading through your stats spreadsheet today Binkenstein, and I came across a small error in the "Gem Combos" section of your "Selection" sheet. The "B" gem combo row references the Red "Gem Colours" info from above, rather than the Blue, and vice versa.

ie. The Ddmg column of the "B" gem combo references cell J3 (giving it a value of 9 dmg from the runed living ruby), while the "R" gem combo references cell J4 (getting a value of 5 dmg from the glowing nightseye stats).

Very minor, but it does throw off some of the numbers. I spent a good half hour trying to figure out why my Monsoon Belt had an extra 4 spell damage. o.O

 

• Binkenstein

But J3 is on the Red gem line, and J4 is on the Blue gem line.

Both those cells are vlookups to the gem name in C3/4.

 

Enragedklown

I have been getting very mixed information on the value of Spell Penetration in PvE settings. A few tell me it is purely a PvP stat, whereas others claim that 30-40 spell penetration is good for PvE encounters. I tried to search through the forum for some info on it but it doesn't appear to be a subject that is touched upon very often.

If i could get a quick run-down of the mechanics behind spell penetration and how it might translate into PvE encounters i would greatly appreciate it.

 

Subvertio

You didn't look very hard.

TBC Mage Theorycrafting
[Shaman] Elemental PvE - Spell Pen?

And the rest have been sent to the dung heap.

 

Enragedklown

Thank you. I must have not searched very effectively. All i was getting back for search results were extremely long warlock threads that I spent an hour digging through with no avail.

 

Kozik

Ok, so looking at the spreadsheets, I am seeing that my average DPS is much lower than what is being calculated. I am fairly close to the LB/LB/LB/CL rotation, and I have a Spriest and BoW to support the mana consumption, but my dps just seems to be lacking. I switched over from resto to support our casters, who until recently have been screwed on drops, and are generally under-geared for our progression. I guess I am looking for a general point to aim for in terms of +dmg, crit rating, and +hit. I think my hit is almost maxed, at 15%, and I am at 27% base crit (w/out talents added). Any suggestions? At this point I am open to any ideas.

 

Dozer

What's your normal latency?

 

Torrential

Let me just point out here that when I got Quartz+/stopcasting macro my DPS took a massive jump. At *least* 200 DPS and probably closer to 300-400.

I run at 220ms most of the time and I was seeing the same thing as Kozik. I knew I should have more DPS and I couldn't see why I wasn't getting it. I love quartz more than orange soda.

 

everwatch

OK, so it seems that many people feel that there is no constant equivalency for whether spell damage or spell critical, etc is better at all times due to scaling of stats changes the value. I get that, but is there a rough ball park equivalency at all? Like 2 Spell Crit = 1 Spell Damage = 5 Int = x (totally made up numbers). And I truly mean a rough ball park. In the enhancement forums they have a few different ones depending on where your gear is at until you hit a certain threshold where it does become constant. So does Elemental ever break a threshold where there is a constant weight to your stats?

http://www.skeletonjack.com/

 

Torrential

I tend to use a priority system rather than a weighted stats system. For me: Hit Cap > 24% base crit > stack damage.

I take what Int comes along. Every time I start to try and do gear comparisons when I consider cloth I always end up deciding the cloth isn't superiour enough tothe Mail pieces I can get. That pretty much limits my 'customization of gear' to just gems. I get the cookie-cutter mail pieces and put in +crit until I'm at my minimum of 24% then stack +damage.

Needing a weighted stats system suggest enough variable gear for it to be useful and that's just not the case in WoW.

 

zaulsiin

Alright, but your sheet shows a Blue socket giving you 9 spell damage, which simply isn't the case. I'm not particularly well versed in the scripts and formulas that Excel uses, but clearly something is amiss. Your sheet is otherwise remarkably well put together and extremely useful. Just trying to help.

 

Kozik

That works great for PvP, but I have found that agro is a big issue in raids. When more threat-per-damage is generated from a crit than from a normal hit, I am finding myself at my threat ceiling very quickly. I have started to exchange crit for damage, which seems to be working well. I am also above your 24% crit priority, so by that standard, I should be stacking +damage now.

 

• Binkenstein

Ah.

It was not those cell references, but the cells looking at those (the R/B lines were looking at each other. I've tidied up that reference page so it should be fixed now (I'll upload the new copy later in the day)

btw: I'm using no macro's at all. All of my calculats are lookups, cell references, and simple sum/if formulae.

 

Melthar

No..
Crits do NOT have any bonus threat, a 2000 point hit generates as much point as a 2000point crit, the only thing crit does is make your threat potentially "spikier"