Lucitron

If The Lightning Capacitor works as the tooltip states... which it doesn't... so, the rest is pretty pointless.

then you need to cast extra spells until you reach the 2.5 sec limit. I.e. for players that use a 2-sec or 1.5 (or instant cast) bread'n'butter spell, then the TLC-output has been halved, since you need to cast one more spell. For players using a 1-sec (Arcane Missile) spell, then the TLC is just a 3rd of its former glory.

The raw power of TLC is also now dependant on the casting time, where the question is how close you can come to 2.5 sec, yet not be beneath it. A 2-sec spell, will effectively mean that you can gain a charge every 4th second, while a 1.5 sec spell will gain a charge every 3rd sec. The interesting part here is spell-haste. If you can get your hands on enough spell haste, then you can get your Lightning Bolt to become more suited for the TLC trinket.

 

tufy

What's "downtime"? Seriously, I've spent an hour farming Basilisks and ended up at 70% total mana in the end. gg.

On the TLC change, it's just as my calculations have shown, overall a small buff, even with the nerf to release charge. LO simply makes up for the lost charges over the time. Damage is around same as where we were, but mana sustainability is insane (just as on PTR). PvP is a bit tricky, as we pretty much depend on LO procs now. That part kinda sucks, but oh well. We'll get used to it. Problem is rogues again, especially with "fixed" Blind and having two CCers on you still spells pretty much instant death.

Creativity requires the courage to let go of certainties.

 

zaby

Hi,

well, we went from Najentus to Bloodboil yesterday. My overall DPS is about the same as last week, but I got *ALOT* more mana to burn through the entire raid. On Najentus for example, I was grouped without a shadow priest and finished the fight with ~50% mana. No potion used, only recasted the watershield while Naj'entus was immune.

On Supremus I was at ~70% mana when he died (and finally dropped my bracers, yay). AFAIK, I always threw in a mana potion in this fight, but no need anymore.

My webstats should be quite compareable as we dont have an enhancement shaman right now, so no stormstrike debuff buffing my dps.

WWS pre 2.3
WWS post 2.3

As for the gear changes between the two WWS: I swapped the lightning capacitor for quags eye right now, as I feel like losing too many charges due to the internal CD. I'm also playing with Flashfire girdle instead of Anetherons Noose (I know that the Noose has more spelldmg/crit, but I love the haste :-) ) right now and crafted Netherstrike bracers got upgraded to Supremus bracers. Edit: forgot about the new metagem (12crit/3%incdmg).

In my opinion, this patch was a BUFF for mana balance and not really a DPS nerf. At least I dont notice much of it :-)

 

Genj

I don't know why but I got different results. In SSC yesterday i was doing more damage with my Shiffar+Icon then Shiffar+TLC.

So i went today unbuffed to Dr Boom just to make sure about those results and found out that for my gear, shiffar+icon gives me 8 more dps and 12k more dmg, which is confusing since the TLC cd is after the last charge and shouldn't affect me much.

I'm unbuffed at 1026 dmg, 33.88% lightning crit, 16% to hit and 80 haste (bolts are 1.9sec cast), + the skycall totem whenever it procs for 100 extra haste.

 

whave

I was testing Sextant + TLC and Sextant + Quags on Dr. Boom yesterday. Though I could only do 1-1 tests (Boom was killed all the time, and wandering Flayers got me till I found a calm position on the barrels), surprisingly I could last ~20 secs longer with Quags (which should drain my mana more on a hasted speed) and do ~20k more damage before running OOM. I know 1-1 tests are not the most accurate ones, I'm planning to do 5-5 tests on both scenarios, and maybe even a TLC+Quags one just for kicks, write down everything (crit rate, exact uptime, dps, damage done) in the following days, so we could have a better overview of trinket scenarios.

Anyway, with constant LB spam, totems up (and being picked up in the last seconds), refreshing water shield, I could last for 2:30+, constantly being over 1100 DPS, sometimes even 1200 (Recount-style DPS which AFAIK only counts active casting, not the idle time). This is something I have only achieved raidbuffed till yesterday.

Be back in a day or two with exact numbers.

 

Kasi

It's really hard to say how the exact numbers of TLC work. What I ended up doing is looking at my parses for 3 raids, one from last night and 2 from before the patch. I just looked at comparing 3 things. Time of the raid, number of times focus procced and number of times electrical charge procced. I was thinking the ratio of elemental focus to electrical charge should tell me how the TLC was performing.

Last night: (All of SSC + Rage) 3:50 minute raid, 35% crit on LB, 38% on CL, 485 clearcasting charges, 454 electrical charges.
One week ago: (Alar, VR + first 4 MH bosses) 3:40 minute raid, 32% crit on LB, 38% on CL, 497 clearcasting charges, 387 electrical charges.
2 weeks ago: (All of SSC + Rage) 3:55 minute raid, 31% LB crit, 37% CL crit, 537 clearcasting charges, 414 electrical charges.

What I can tell is that with the new patch, at least of last night electrical charges was closer in number to clearcasting than it was before. So that seems like the number of procs is going up.

As for my damage, it definitely went up. Mainly due to having more mana. On half the instance we had a ret pally using JoW so it was very hard for me to spend my mana. I got overall number 2 in damage for the night, which was nice. But actual damage from spells I think works out pretty similar, I was just able to go with harder rotations.

 

Rebaseke

I can't think of anything but this being a count error, explain how pre-patch your charge count can be anything but the same as your focus count? In fact when you use CL that hits multiple targets it should be HIGHER than your focus count.
And the people who are seeing a dps increase did you use stopcasting before patch because they changed the way spellcast requests are handled. I personally seem to be getting less dps on bosses than i used to.
I have 127 haste 1111 damage unbuffed and 22.4 crit.

Oh and spending my mana in raids is really hard now, doing a 3/1 cycle fullout i didnt go under 7k mana on void reaver. With a shadow priest of course. I had to move like 3 times

 

• Binkenstein

Personally, I'd only grab it if no mages/locks/balance druids wanted it. +hit? Wasted. On-use haste? not as good for us as it is for our 2.5+ cast time friends. I'd go for Sextant/Quags/Shrunken Head/TLC/Nexus-Horn.

Plus the other casters in the guild will <3 you for it.
Nein. The cooldown is only activated when you gain your third charge. It's still good, but you're only losing every 4th crit if it's directly after the third.

 

Kasi

I am not using stopcasting, which probably accounts for quite a bit of my improvement. Still I am able to go more aggressive rotations than I used to.

As for Clearcasting/Electrical Charge one would think that, but this is taken off WWS reports. It should be accurate and I have that trinket on virtually every fight (except Rage and Archimonde)

 

Moshne

From the number I am seeing, I seem to be getting about 67% as many Electrical Charges as total crits. I suspect this is because it is not tracking the 3rd "crit" as a charge. I'd be very hesitant to go off WWS's numbers for total Clearcast procs to compare, as if it follows the same logic as it does with debuffs, it only counts them if it has first worn off (check the total number of instances of CoE on your bosses, you will see only 1-2, assuming the lock isn't letting it drop.)

On Leo, I had 37 LB crits, 13 Chain Lightning, and 1 Flame Shock = 51 total eligible crits. For the same time, I have 31 Electrical Charges (33.66 expected, if the theory holds.) Accounting for crits that happen immediately after, or because of a TLC proc, this would seem correct. (I had 25 Clearcasts during the fight)

For Lurker, I have 91 eligible crits, and only 49 Electrical Charges (45 Clearcasts)

 

Lucitron

I stand corrected.

Noticed a drop of expected charge-gain in ZA, hence I figured it was nerfed heavily... but after checking WWS-reports from the Eye, I noticed that my charge-gain had not declined... or at least not with 50%.

 

BlueGlyph

When comparing Charges to the number of crits you need to take into account the crits from the bolts coming from the trinket. These will up your number of crits, but don't count towards your number of charges.

 

Rebaseke

So apparently a talent that has been same for over 2? years is "bugged" and is getting fixed next patch. Yay more nerfs.

WoW Forums -> 2.3 Known Issues list

-The Shaman Talent Call of Thunder (Rank 5) is giving 2% extra crit, while ranks 1-4 only give 1% crit.

I'm getting the feeling that unless i see some elemental love soon i won't hesitate long to sell my account and move on to some other MMO :S

 

• Binkenstein

Welcome to the other thread :p

It's almost like we need to close this one, and just continue with the other (or people could just read both before posting, but I doubt that would happen).

 

Rebaseke

So that explains why nobody is posting here. (Which other thread? :< )

 

• Binkenstein

http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t16947-s...lemental_shop/ or see my sig :p

 

• Binkenstein

Updates!
I'm playing around with an "upgrades" tab, which behaves fairly similarly to the main page, but you can select 3-4 other items for a quick comparison. Might drop it down to 2 (3 for rings/trinkets), but at the moment it's just a straight lookup from the item tabs.
Any suggestions on things I could add to it, or other changes I should make prior to the next update on friday?

 

Chemdog

Anyone ever wonder how far they could move up in their career if they put half as much effort into work as we do into our games?

 

Daidalos

I've been making some enhances/fixes to my sim and I was wondering if the skycall procs even if the LB is resisted. I thought someone had posted this saying it did, but when I went to find the post I coudn't seem to find it anywhere.

 

Durakghar

This definitely procs on spell cast, not upon landing a hit on your target.

 

Gaguusi

Bink: is there any way you could release a version of Shamstats which assumes infinite mana (e.g. MP5 is ignored in the DEP-calculation)?

Since mana is a non-issue in many fights, I would really like to use your spreadsheet for a damage-only calculation...

(please don't shoot me if that option is already there and I simply didn't see it...)


Thanks



edit: to clarify, I've created my own spreadsheet with formulae I believe to be correct, but I'm never sure whether I calculate haste rating accurately. Since you're the local elemental shaman math expert, I thoght I'd ask

 

• Binkenstein

I could add an option to manually specify additional mana regen with a list of options (Pots are 80m5, Spriest ~ 250mp5) at some point, but I'm currently bug fixing that upgrades page, before resuming dmg/heal item updates (up to chest atm).

 

Gaguusi

Thank you for your extremely swift reply... I'd also like to thank you at this time for your effort, it is very much appreciated

Looking forward to future updates to your spreadsheet.

 

Daidalos

Again I'll point out this sim is under development and its entirely possibly it has bugs, typos, or other such things.
These numbers are for a fixed 4 LB 1 CL rotation. Its intersting to see the strength of skycall as it scales making it very impressive. considering CL gains no benefit and cannot proc the buff. I show a mid level and a high end gear setup you give you an idea on the scaling. Also keep in mind 1200 is not a crazy number if you count buffs like WoA / flask / food / oil. I can post results for other gear stats if people really feel a certain gear level needs to be simmed just let me know.

Enter total hit percent (capped at 99) 99
Enter crit percent 35
Enter total spell dmg for Lightning Bolt without relic 900
Choose relic: 1)skycall totem 2)Totem of the Void 3)Totem of Ancestral Guidance 4) none
1
Enter total spell haste percent 0
Enter number of simulated hours 24
total dmg = 95908536
total LBs = 36947
total LB LOs = 7319
total CLs = 9257
total CL LOs = 1802
total num of skycall procs 5564
Percent chance for skycall proc 15.059409424310498
total casts with skycall buff 20691
Percent of LB casts with skycall buff 56.00184047419277
average dps = 1110


Enter total hit percent (capped at 99)99
Enter crit percent 35
Enter total spell dmg for Lightning Bolt without relic 900
Choose relic: 1)skycall totem 2)Totem of the Void 3)Totem of Ancestral Guidance 4) none
2
Enter total spell haste percent 0
Enter number of simulated hours 24
total dmg = 96507267
total LBs = 36010
total LB LOs = 7200
total CLs = 8994
total CL LOs = 1777
total num of skycall procs 0
Percent chance for skycall proc 0.0
total casts with skycall buff 0
Percent of LB casts with skycall buff 0.0
average dps = 1116


Enter total hit percent (capped at 99)99
Enter crit percent 40
Enter total spell dmg for Lightning Bolt without relic 1200
Choose relic: 1)skycall totem 2)Totem of the Void 3)Totem of Ancestral Guidance 4) none
1
Enter total spell haste percent 10
Enter number of simulated hours 24
total dmg = 126672018
total LBs = 40079
total LB LOs = 7915
total CLs = 10052
total CL LOs = 2082
total num of skycall procs 6178
Percent chance for skycall proc 15.414556251403477
total casts with skycall buff 22702
Percent of LB casts with skycall buff 56.64312981860825
average dps = 1466

Enter total hit percent (capped at 99)99
Enter crit percent 40
Enter total spell dmg for Lightning Bolt without relic 1200
Choose relic: 1)skycall totem 2)Totem of the Void 3)Totem of Ancestral Guidance 4) none
2
Enter total spell haste percent 10
Enter number of simulated hours 24
total dmg = 126017401
total LBs = 38993
total LB LOs = 7722
total CLs = 9745
total CL LOs = 1949
average dps = 1458

Enter total hit percent (capped at 99)99
Enter crit percent 40
Enter total spell dmg for Lightning Bolt without relic 1200
Choose relic: 1)skycall totem 2)Totem of the Void 3)Totem of Ancestral Guidance 4) none
3
Enter total spell haste percent 10
Enter number of simulated hours 24
total dmg = 127547514
total LBs = 38934
total LB LOs = 7603
total CLs = 9743
total CL LOs = 1935
average dps = 1476

 

Rebaseke

Any chance you could also run the sim at 1400/1500/1600 spelldamage without relic and at 8/11.5% haste from gear?