[Shaman] Elemental Shaman DPS Spreadsheet? - Page 36

Daidalos · 12/11/07, 2:16 PM

With no relic or the skycall relic?

EDIT: Also did you want pure LB spam or 4 LB / 1 CL rotation?

Rebaseke · 12/11/07, 2:58 PM

Yeah i meant skycall vs ancestral, sorry about that.

Buanna · 12/11/07, 4:28 PM

So where's the breakpoint(s) on Skycall vs Void?

Binkenstein · 12/11/07, 5:09 PM

Daidalos: silly question time. Are you able to put that simulator into a webpage/downloadable application?
So rather than running it multiple times yourself, we can say "Go here, use this".

Rebaseke · 12/11/07, 5:20 PM

Yeah that would be awesome. Need!

Binkenstein · 12/12/07, 3:07 PM

Right.

I'm going to put up what I've got at the moment for ShamStats, and then go away and think for a while on my EP calculations (again).

I realised this morning that while haste improves as you add damage/crit, the reverse is not happening. This started out from trying to get a decent T6 4pc bonus value, that would also increase stats as it does normally.

So what I'm going to do is write up the math behind the changes I plan on making, so I can get feedback & so forth, along with changing DEP from Damage to DPS.

L = Lightning bolt damage, including talents/+dmg
Con = Concussion talent
C = Crit % * (0.5+EF)
H = Hit modifier

Firstly: Current LB damage
L = (base + (dmg*coeff)) * Con base damage on lb
L(1+C) include crit bonus
H(L+LC) include hit modifier
HO(L+LC) include overload multiplier
(HO(L+LC))/T = DPS divide by cast time

I'll come back to this over the next week or so (probably put the current versions into my ele thread)

Daidalos · 12/12/07, 4:17 PM

Originally Posted by Binkenstein

Daidalos: silly question time. Are you able to put that simulator into a webpage/downloadable application?
So rather than running it multiple times yourself, we can say "Go here, use this".

Planning on it but as of now its a thing I work on when I have free time at work. So work is sporatic and can sometimes be broken for several days at a time before I can do anything. I could make it availible like this... but I'd not want people who are clueless looking to it for guidance since I'm still finding bugs from time to time not to mention I have done 0 work on the interface so its all text atm not very slick lookin. Also I frequently break it as I am adding features then get distracted by my job making me do real work!!.

If bink and other ppl who do theorycraft actually want to mess with it break it and will know when data is off, wanna have at it thats fine, I just don't want ppl looking for answers finding a bug and having no idea the results are wildly inccurate or somthing and running off and blowing all thier badges on somthign dumb and saying well the sim shows it was better.
Eventually I plan on having it give weighted stats similar to Yo's Enh sim and such but right now it only calculates dps.

Originally Posted by Binkenstein

Right.

I'm going to put up what I've got at the moment for ShamStats, and then go away and think for a while on my EP calculations (again).

I realised this morning that while haste improves as you add damage/crit, the reverse is not happening. This started out from trying to get a decent T6 4pc bonus value, that would also increase stats as it does normally.

So what I'm going to do is write up the math behind the changes I plan on making, so I can get feedback & so forth, along with changing DEP from Damage to DPS.

L = Lightning bolt damage, including talents/+dmg
Con = Concussion talent
C = Crit % * (0.5+EF)
H = Hit modifier

Firstly: Current LB damage
L = (base + (dmg*coeff)) * Con base damage on lb
L(1+C) include crit bonus
H(L+LC) include hit modifier
HO(L+LC) include overload multiplier
(HO(L+LC))/T = DPS divide by cast time

I'll come back to this over the next week or so (probably put the current versions into my ele thread)

What I did in my spreadsheet was to work backwards from dps. So given hit, crit, and spell cast time I can work back to LB dmg and solve for spell dmg for example.

Binkenstein · 12/12/07, 4:43 PM

It depends on how you look at it. I'm going for a "increase in damage, based on current stats".

That said, most of the new calcs will have some sort of backwards calculation, based on that "current dps" figure I put into that post.

Daidalos · 12/12/07, 5:08 PM

Right I simply plugged the new stat in my LB foruma which outputs dps as one of its columns and then solve for the dmg equiv. Thats how I did all my haste and crit -> dmg conversions.

Binkenstein · 12/12/07, 5:40 PM

Hmmm.

So using that method above, add an additional 1 dmg/1% Crit/Hit/Haste, subtract standard DPS, divide by rating conversions if needed.
mp5 would be DPS/MPS/5, Mana would be DPS/MPS/600 (for a 10 minute fight), and I'll use the current conversions for Stam/Int/Spirit.

That makes it a little easier to calculate then.

Binkenstein · 12/12/07, 8:38 PM

Well, so far, I'm just getting the straight damage stuff done for LB, and my results look similar to yours (once I multiply everything up to 1 dmg).

Does certainly make it easier to calculate things.

Binkenstein · 12/13/07, 2:29 AM

Having a little bit of trouble getting mana and mp5 working right.

just thought of:

DPS/cost = Damage per mana per second (D/MPS)
Divide by 5 for mp5.

jourikdv · 12/14/07, 9:20 AM

Grmbl posted in wrong thread.

Binkenstein · 12/16/07, 3:41 PM

Expanding on the D/MPS point:

average damage per cast / time taken to regen cost @ 1mps = X dps for 1 mps, or X d/mps
1/5 X = mp5 value

Converting these into bonuses for Crit and Haste.
Crit: Calculate Clearcasting reduction % for Crit+1%, and subtract % for Crit. Multiply this by X, then divide by crit rating to get the bonus to add.

Haste: Calculate extra mana used, multiply by X and by the regen/use ratio (so that the penalty is reduced as you increase your regen, in the same way that mp5 value is reduced as regen increases), divide by rating, and then subtract this from the haste bonus

I'm pretty sure that's going to get us accurate answers.

Zuathar · 01/12/08, 8:00 AM

I can't see the the extra 50 mp5 granted by new water shield in the latest shamanstat version. Is it anywhere or can I add it somehow?

Kyuki · 01/12/08, 11:37 AM

Originally Posted by Rebaseke

Yeah that would be awesome. Need!

I second that, it would be awesome

Understandable too that you dont want to put it out there now when it's not really polished, no rush. I'm glad someone is doing a sim at all - it's interesting

Binkenstein · 01/12/08, 5:17 PM

Originally Posted by Zuathar

I can't see the the extra 50 mp5 granted by new water shield in the latest shamanstat version. Is it anywhere or can I add it somehow?

It is the +WS part of the Inc Talents MP5. I haven't added an option to select it, because it's the only shield you'll be using.

sandra · 02/03/08, 10:45 PM

Wondering if this site was rated as of yet ?

MaxDPS.com - Elemental Shaman DPS Gear Rankings

I have tested out Binks shamstats but had to reformat my computer so excel was lost.

Haste is making my head hurt lol I currently have no haste on my gear and am pretty weary about it. Read the patch notes and now trying to figure out what haste pieces would be good to add to my set. I understand spell dmg/and crit but haste is another story

raid buffed I sit at (Im only at T5 level currently no Kael down

yet....)

* Bonus Damage: 1300
* Bonus Healing: 998
* Hit Rating: 83
* Crit Chance: 40%
* Penetration: 20
* Mana Regen: 157

*I do have the Lightning Capacitator but currently equip Icon and Sextant *

Has anyone had any good experience with the spell haste items from badges?

My armory is The World of Warcraft Armory

Also was wondering if it would be an ideal rotation to pop EM, drums, trinket then spam LB. Then go into a 3LB 1CL rotation until the drums and trinkets are back up.When drums and trinket up again LB spam rinse repeat.

*I do have the Lightning Capacitator but currently equip Icon and Sextant *

Binkenstein · 02/04/08, 12:01 AM

I'd doubt the usefulness of a site like that, especially given that it lists swords as potential weapons...

witchfire · 02/04/08, 11:42 AM

Got a question abot the "cast delay factor". In the download from 31.01.08 you use 0,1 compared to 0,2 in an earlier version. Changing the factor effects how haste items are rated. What method do you use to calculate the delay factor and what factors should I look at to figure out what value I should be using?

Zifna · 02/04/08, 12:01 PM

Originally Posted by sandra

Wondering if this site was rated as of yet ?

MaxDPS.com - Elemental Shaman DPS Gear Rankings

I'd be careful with that as well... It listed Brooch of Nature's Mercy as more valuable than Sun King Talisman for an Ele Shaman... it also lacks options to adequately incorporate some elements like Skycall Totem & Lightning Capacitor.

I'm interested in how Haste Rating is changing next patch. Not only will it be possible to utilize it without dropping Chain Lightning from your rotation, it'll increase your overall time dpsing as it'll reduce the GCD of totem drops.

I'm curious how people think the changes affect our optimal gear choices. For example, [Bands of the Coming Storm] seem to be becoming significantly worse than [Bracers of Nimble Thought] or even [Runed Spell-Cuffs]

EDIT: As a side note, it seems possible to me that [Blessed Band of Karabor] would be a DPS upgrade to [Ring of Endless Coils] after this change... (obviously both are inferior to [Ring of Ancient Knowledge], but it seems funny that a healer item only 13 iLevels higher than a dps item might be superior)

Binkenstein · 02/04/08, 1:12 PM

Originally Posted by witchfire

Got a question abot the "cast delay factor". In the download from 31.01.08 you use 0,1 compared to 0,2 in an earlier version. Changing the factor effects how haste items are rated. What method do you use to calculate the delay factor and what factors should I look at to figure out what value I should be using?

Cast delay is basically the "lag" option, and I switch it around to see how it affects various things. As with any option you should set it to what you want (I'd go do a Dr Boom test with combat logging on, cast LB as quickly as possible, then see how far apart the LB casts are by the log timestamps).

Originally Posted by Zifna

I'd be careful with that as well... It listed Brooch of Nature's Mercy as more valuable than Sun King Talisman for an Ele Shaman... it also lacks options to adequately incorporate some elements like Skycall Totem & Lightning Capacitor.

I'm interested in how Haste Rating is changing next patch. Not only will it be possible to utilize it without dropping Chain Lightning from your rotation, it'll increase your overall time dpsing as it'll reduce the GCD of totem drops.

I'm curious how people think the changes affect our optimal gear choices. For example, [Bands of the Coming Storm] seem to be becoming significantly worse than [Bracers of Nimble Thought] or even [Runed Spell-Cuffs]

EDIT: As a side note, it seems possible to me that [Blessed Band of Karabor] would be a DPS upgrade to [Ring of Endless Coils] after this change... (obviously both are inferior to [Ring of Ancient Knowledge], but it seems funny that a healer item only 13 iLevels higher than a dps item might be superior)

My only problem at the moment is figuring out a decent way of getting past the 5% haste mark, and making sure I'm not dependant on a shadow priest for mana. As it is, even with an spriest I can run out fairly easily

Daidalos · 02/04/08, 2:47 PM

Originally Posted by Binkenstein

Cast delay is basically the "lag" option, and I switch it around to see how it affects various things. As with any option you should set it to what you want (I'd go do a Dr Boom test with combat logging on, cast LB as quickly as possible, then see how far apart the LB casts are by the log timestamps).

My only problem at the moment is figuring out a decent way of getting past the 5% haste mark, and making sure I'm not dependant on a shadow priest for mana. As it is, even with an spriest I can run out fairly easily

How fast are you running out of mana? I'm curious if just really long fights or spreists isn't restoring as much as he should. I think you last said you had about ~40 crit and you didn't go for the haste gear ..so according to my calculations you would be comsuming about 665.38 mp5 with 3 LB 1 CL rotation and regenning about ~300 mp5 raid buffed and chain potting with super manas. A shadow priest should be able to retrurn upwards of 250mp5 meaning a net loss of only 100 mp5.

Using a pure LB rotation when needed should be permanently sustainable.

Perhaps my calculations are off?

Binkenstein · 02/04/08, 3:06 PM

I think the last time we did Al'ar was a good example. I was virtually OOM at the end of phase one, although I was top on the DPS charts. This was without a shadow priest though. I've always been a bit hesitant to depend on one, especially given the variability of our spriest attendances and the fact that I'm usually in a 3 mage/oomkin/ele group.

Daidalos · 02/04/08, 3:34 PM

Originally Posted by Binkenstein

I think the last time we did Al'ar was a good example. I was virtually OOM at the end of phase one, although I was top on the DPS charts. This was without a shadow priest though. I've always been a bit hesitant to depend on one, especially given the variability of our spriest attendances and the fact that I'm usually in a 3 mage/oomkin/ele group.

Yeah without a spriest even sticking with pure LB spam you most likely only get about 5-6 mins (with 0 time between spells) with a 10k mana pool.