Rokh

This isn't necessarily true; there are fundamental problems concerning latency and cast sequence macros, that used to affect straight casts, but now does not. For instance, say you have 200ms, and an attack speed of 1.5, when quick shots/dst or whatever procs. Using a cast sequence macro, you will run into clipping problems because of your 200ms latency. Using a straight /cast Steady Shot (or similar) macro, it now uses the new "chain casting" mechanics to reduce your latency as much as possibly, thereby clipping less auto shots, and providing more dps.

Another example; with a slow enough speed weapon, relatively low haste value, and no quick shots/rapid fire/other haste effects, it is sometimes favorable to ramp up to a 1:2 rotation, that is 2 steadies per auto, until Quick Shots procs. The typical /cast Steady Shot macro will provide for this and do it properly given the right circumstances.

Basically with the new special shot mechanics, delaying your auto shot is less of a likelihood while spamming a simple macro. This means there won't be any specific "omg best" macro for BM hunters anymore. Research, and testing, will provide what is best for your personal gear setup and latency.

 

Bikiniwax

Testing done on Dr. Boom

BM 41/20
Aspect of the Viper
Pet out but not used obviously
Bloodlust+Commander's badge (no procs, no DST, no IAotH)
Crit Scopes on both Sunfury & Wolfslayer

Used Hunter's Mark for to time 2 minute tests. Used Recount.

Latency ~200-250

Tests were preformed using a Belkin Nostromo N52
Speedpad which repeated the macro automatically every
10th of a second.



Old Macro:

#showtooltip Steady Shot
/castsequence reset=3 !Auto Shot, Steady Shot
/cast [target=pettarget, exists] Kill Command
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear()

New Macro:

#showtooltip Steady Shot
/cast !Auto Shot
/cast [target=pettarget, exists] Kill Command
/cast Steady Shot
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear()






The new macro seems to be a DPS increase over the older /castsequence macro however
it eats up mana faster due to increased number of Steady Shots as compared to Auto Shots.

Also interesting is how close the Sunfury is to Wolfslayer for DPS even for
a BM build.

 

zalgarde

I hadn't tried
/castsequence [exists] reset=3 !Auto Shot, Steady Shot
on Dr. Boom, though against magtheridon I hadn't gotten as solid dps with it, so I didn't bother last night.

but I logged out at dr. boom. So it was easy enough.
using the consortium blaster for a minute, I fired only 59 shots, a noticeably smaller amount than with the /cast macro.
even a little loss of time due to latency stands out against the almost human error free results I'm getting from the /cast one. I will note that I'm still one of those luddites that hasn't got anything to actually spam my button for me, so I only hit my macro 4-5 times a second. This may make the loss on /castsequences more pronounced for me.

Personally I'm a little frustrated by this turn of events, I liked the idea of being able to carefully plan out a rotation for a little extra dps. That said the flexible nature of steady shot does seem to diminish the importance of weapon speed a little bit, which is ok with me.

EDIT: I'm thinking that my slow button pushing (.20 to .25 or more) coupled with my latency (.200 - .300) occaisionally pushes me past that .5 grace period we seem to have, losing me shots. I'll run some logged tests and try to get them posted here.

 

Saryanne

I'm like Zelgarde, I manually click my macro button, I use a normal Keyboard and mouse, anybody have any reccomendations for an addon or program to make it where I can just hold it down? I want to ensure I am getting the most out of my shot rotation.

 

Zene

I'm curious, why is your ratio between SS and AS a bit different in the Wolfslayer test vs the Sunfury (almost 50/50). Is this just due to 200-250 latency? I'm usually in the 100-200 latency range and seem to be able to keep a relatively close 50/50 rotation when I look back at WWSs. (Granted 53/46 isn't very far from 50/50)

 

Bikiniwax

Yeah, I am at a loss to explain that as well. The consistency between tests shows that I am doing the same thing for each test, however I am at a loss to explain why there isn't more of a 50/50 ratio between Steady Shot and Auto Shot.

 

ahhzz

Ok guys...I apologize, and this may need to be in a different posting, but here's my question. I'm a relatively cookie cutter BM, with the Wolfsniper. In looking at the Spreadsheet, it APPEARS that using a auto/arcane/multi macro, that I'd actually turn 30-40 more dps than the standard SS/Auto macro. Now, neither of the listed shot rotations include KC, and I assume that can throw all the numbers out the window.... I guess my question is, what part of "Use the SS/AutoMacro, stupid!!" am I not getting?
I've been a philistine all these years since early beta (since before we even HAD talents heheh), and doing all my shooting by hand. It's only been the last 1/2 year or so, I've been trying the macros, and everytime I think I've got a handle, something changes and the macros don't work the way I thought they did. As a basic BM, Wolfsniper, do I need to just forgo all the examination and stick to a basic
"#showtooltip Steady Shot
/cast !Auto Shot
/cast [target=pettarget, exists] Kill Command
/cast Steady Shot
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear()"
like above? Is there any benefit in trying to swap in Arcanes or multis? I've got tons of mana, gorge on the Fel mana pots, Dark runes, etc, everything I can to keep my mana up, so that, for now, is not a concern... Is it stupid as a BM to do anything but SS/auto?

thanks guys.

 

ahhzz

*sigh*...I guess that answers my main question...just trying to get a handle on somewhere to start, and how the hell to make 'smart' attempts at improvements

 

ligghtpro

Ok, back after lots of testing today, and one very special breakthrough at the end. First, the boring stuff.

Another long term test of nothing but autoshot, this time during non-peak hours, still with about 100ms lag. 956.25 seconds elapsed, expecting 318 autoshots, only got 309. Average time between autoshots is 3.095, seems pretty clear to me that latency will affect your weapon speed, most likely some client<->server check to ensure you aren't moving.

Afkauto2.txt

Here's a log of me spamming a "/cast !Auto Shot /cast Steady Shot" macro, bound to a free-spinning mousewheel. Aside from two autoshots during lag spikes, I completely clobber auto, the macro provided no protection whatsoever. In 125.675 seconds, I get 79 steady shots, out of an expected 83, getting an average of 1.578 seconds per steady shot.

AutoSteadySpam.txt

This is a control of the last test, same method of spamming, but a simpler "/cast Steady Shot" macro. No autoshots at all, still completely clobbering them. Got almost identical results, 79 shots in 125.156 seconds, out of the expected 83. I've come to the conclusion that the "/cast !Auto Shot" is not only extraneous in any of these macros, but also promotes video/computer lag. Go make a macro consisting of several lines of "/cast !Auto Shot", spam it a few times, and watch yourself completely freeze up and fall offline.

SteadySpam.txt

One more version of the "/cast Steady Shot" macro spam testing, this time with a 15% quiver haste added in. I actually get 11 autoshots out with this one, and get a surprising 90 steadies in 135.797 seconds, exactly what is expected. Haste effects are my anti-lag! Average time of an autoshot landing after a steady shot lands is 0.584. Whether or not haste affects it now is likely worth testing, but the old 0.5 sec cast time on autoshot after a steady is still alive and kicking. Average time of a steady shot landing after an autoshot is 1.381, seems likely that steady shot truly is affected by quiver haste, which would put it at 1.304. The oddity here is that my average rate of steady shots, removing the "cast" time of all of the autos and the steady shot after them, is 1.445s, faster than the global cooldown should allow.

QuiverSteadySpam.txt

Finally, the test with the most exciting breakthrough. I decided to attempt to manually clobber my auto shots by trying to cast a steady shot as late as I could before an auto fired (Removed my quiver again, so this was a flat 3 second auto, 1.5 second steady cast time). I'd hoped my successes would reinforce the 0.5s cast time on auto, what I hadn't expected were my failures, which occurred when I got within about 0.5s left on my cast bar for autoshot:

ManualSteady.txt

Unless I'd suddenly become a god of timing, I've got concrete proof that a special shot cannot interrupt an auto-shot during its 0.5 sec cast, and will instead be queued to occur perfectly afterwards. This provides a tremendous amount of protection to shot rotations that certainly did not exist before, HOWEVER, the protection is not absolute, illustrated by the last few tests I ran, being off-set by server-client latency between the conclusion of one cast and the beginning of the next cast, even if the only thing being cast is your autoshots. Next up, I hope to do some testing with haste, since it seems to be the big counter to latency issues. Hopefully someone besides me actually finds all this worthwhile.

 

QuiggyB

Similar info was posted in here a bit ago. The conclusion drawn then was that the auto shot was being allowd to cast when steady was waiting on the gcd. If your steady shot takes close to as long as the gcd then you will miss some autos. As you add haste the cast time of steady comes down, the number of specials you shoot approaches the max the gcd should allow, and you get more autos because the window for them to cast gets bigger. The less than 1.5 sec gcd you are observing is due to the gcd starting when you start a steady in the last .5 sec f your suto shot time, but the server doesnt let the steady cast until after the auto goes off.

 

◊ vank

2.3.3 going to PTR.

Of note:

"Thank you to everyone who reported macro issues they've been encountering with the latest patch. We believe we have identified and corrected the issue, and we plan to release a client side update to distribute this fix to players.

This client side update is currently being uploaded to the PTRs, and should be available there for players to test shortly.

I'd like to encourage players who are experiencing macro issues to download this PTR patch and see if their macros are working there. If you encounter issues with macro functionality on the PTR, please post here and on the Test Realm forum so that we can further investigate those issues."

WoW Forums -> Macros and /castsequence issues

 

Trohck

Nice testing ligghtpro, please continue. Your explanations and tests seem to be better than the previous ones that QuiggyB is referring to.

 

Omegatron

I saw similar results when I tried this.

#showtooltip Steady Shot
/script UIErrorsFrame:Hide()
/castsequence reset=3 Steady Shot, !Auto Shot
/cast [exists,target=pettarget] Kill Command
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear(); UIErrorsFrame:Show()

I think, but am not sure... Since /cast Steady Shot is before the !Auto Shot in the cast sequence you will now get better results then the !Auto Shot, Steady Shot. The macro will no longer cast auto shot when you wanted to get off a Steady Shot. I am just guessing why this seems to work better. I just know what I observed.

I do see my shot rotation at about 1:1 and the mana holds up much better then /cast !Auto Shot, Steady Shot

Edit The World of Warcraft Armory I am at a 1.88 speed and 1.35 with rapid. Which might explain what I observed.

If anyone is good at running numbers, give it a try. My only guess is since steady shot scales better with gear and if you ignore mana efficiency your better off using more steady shots then auto for max dps.

Therefor

#showtooltip Steady Shot
/cast !Auto Shot
/cast [target=pettarget, exists] Kill Command
/cast Steady Shot
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear()

Good on paper bad in raids.

 

Rokh

There's something wrong about Steady Shot scaling better with gear than Auto Shot, I think. Every WWS report I can find, my Auto's hit for more average damage than my Steady Shot..

Anyone have the math behind this?


Edit: Just thinking about this roughly, perhaps Steady Shot isn't affected by Armor Penetration right now? I can't really explain why my average Auto Shot is more than my average Steady Shot over thousands of shots.

 

ligghtpro

It's just a matter of weapon speed. Steady Shot is scaled exactly like using a 2.8 speed weapon (But fires off at a 1.5 cast speed). Using a weapon slower than that (Like your 3.0 speed Gladiator Bow) will almost always make your auto shots hit harder than your steadys. Where steady shot scales better than auto is in DPS, where you can get 4 steadys off, and be halfway through the next cast, in the same time it takes you to get off 3 autos.

 

Motto

Here are WWS extracts from Hyjal last night, up to Archie.

In red is the optimal number of shots I should have fired in the given timespan.

Disclaimer: 7/48/6 Spec with iAotH; no macros used, tried to get as close as i could to a perfect 1:1.5. Hand weaving is so much easier since 2.3.2.

• Boss was moved out of ranged several times due to death and decay.

• Had Frostbolt on me once.

• FD resisted 2 times in a row. As MM that's "nuff said"

• Close to a perfect 1:1.5 - low on specials due to the mana drain, had 0 mana at a point.

• Boss was moved a few times.

• Had to move away from fire a few times as well

As you can see, holding up a perfect 1:1.5 rotation is close to imposible due to normal raiding environment where you always happen to have to dodge something, move away, catch a boss etc. The reason why i agree with Howitzer's MM post and on-site experience proved that MM closes the gap to BM quite a lot with good gear and a propper rotation.

The part i hate the most though are the macros, anyone can spam a button and shine as BM.

Closest to that were Anetheron and Khaz'Rogal.

Next time i will try and do the same as BM trying to use a 1:1 priority queue and see how it goes. Something really got changed about how auto shots are handled by client / server now, feels almost like it lost the 0.5 sec cast time.

 

Soulcow

You want to play like a bot? The games gets boring if all is left is moving and starting/stopping your 'bot' program.

I really like this chance since it kinda reduces the advantages of the macro to nothing. With this chance there is a lot more room for human error and your rotation if probably always near perfect. Manual might even give better dps since you can now easy aggresively time to remove the lag factor in your shot weaving.

With survival I noticed a lot less clipping doing my rotation last week and with BM I have so much free time now that I'm thinking that I should get DST or a quicker weapon now. Also the clipping from a late KC seems to be gone too.

 

Saryanne

I didn't say I wanted a bot to fire for me, I simple said I wanted to maximise my shot rotation by holding down my button instead of mashing it as fast as I can.

Sorry if this isn't the thread for this, but since it involves getting the most out of my shot rotation, I figured it was.

 

Mitgrim

Link the macro button to your mouse wheel, that's "rock'n'roll"

 

Kanaka

I am fairly new to the game and have been all specs. Now that i'm getting into raiding I made a macro but not able to use it in raids beside 10 mans. So if anyone can take a look at it and let me know if it is good or where I can make improvements id appreciate it. At the moment i am a beastmaster with 679 agi 1700 ap and 30% crit

/cast sequence reset=3 steady shot, auto shot,
steady shot, auto shot, steady shot, arcane shot, auto shot
/cast [target=pettarget,exists] kill command

 

QuiggyB

get rid of the space in cast sequence and put "!" in front of auto - no comment about how well the macro will perform, but it should fire those shots.

/castsequence reset=3 steady shot, !auto shot,
steady shot, !auto shot, steady shot, arcane shot, !auto shot
/cast [target=pettarget,exists] kill command

 

nikoa

replied to the wrong topic...

 

mongbatstar