Darkist

I was trying to fit in where my attack speed would come into play, because you didnt seem to mention it
mine is currently at 2.12 BM spec and with improved AoH and Rapid fire it drops considerably

what is my ideal attack speed for the Fast Attack BM rotation?

and how will AoH and Rapid Fire affect my rotation?

~Darkist

 

KraxisSingular

Am I the only one that thinks that this is an oxymoron?

 

Arthian

No it's not just you.

Gizammo - your question is similar to If I have 5 apples and I really want to eat 5 apples, can you tell me how I can eat 5 apples and still have 5 apples at the end without getting any new apples.

 

• Praxx

I am using the 2 macro system from Manito's Modified 3:2 Steady Shot Macros

Macro 1:
#showtooltip
/console Sound_EnableSFX 0
/cast !Auto Shot
/click [target=pettarget,exists] MultiBarLeftButton3
/cast Steady Shot
/console Sound_EnableSFX 1
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear()

Macro 2:
#showtooltip
/castsequence reset=4 Kill Command, !Auto Shot, !Auto Shot, !Auto Shot

I had tried it previously and, while I had good DPS results, I was still getting the lock ups with Kill Command. Went back to the regular 3:2 macro (with KC in the macro itself) and got lower DPS even after upgrading to [Crossbow of Relentless Strikes] & [The Blade of Harbingers] which is close to an 80 spread sheet DPS boost.

Perhaps the lock ups are just more noticeable with the gold border glowing around the Kill Command macro button.

 

Elrinnas

I also tried the modified macro last night while raiding and I noticed that when KC goes off, it is jumping to the new button but it does not seem to be casting the 4 auto shots. When KC goes off, should I stop spamming the button?

 

• Praxx

The macro is not meant to fire the four auto shots. I believe they are there just to force your rotation into not clipping your autos.

 

Elrinnas

Thanks. That explains it.

 

Barradin

Not really sure if my logic leading to this decision was sound at all but is the standard 3:2 macro that BM's use that's 'mana intensive' a viable choice for a MM hunter (who would probably drool at how little mana 3:2 uses over 1:1.5 or 1:1.X)?

My understanding is that 3:2 delays every other autoshot so that you get more overall shots in... I have no numbers (nor do I know how to get them in this case) but say the 3:2 rotation for a BM delays your autos by an average of 0.7 seconds... wouldn't a slower MM attack speed mean that the average 'delay' would be less... maybe 0.5 or 0.4 seconds?

not really sure if the last paragraph will make sense to people, but can someone comment on the 3:2 rotation's viability as a MM spec.

Note that my spec doesn't need the 6 talents to improve multi-shot as I'm not using it in the 3:2 macro... I put those talents into +20% pet damage and combat experience (which I may move to hawk eye as I find it more practical in a lot of raid situations... but that's besides the point).

Just wondering what your take on this approach is. My first run through TK/SSC gave excellent results with my performance being roughly comparable to what I did as the standard BM build. Here's my armory (spec has changed back to BM since). At what point in the raid progression does the MM spec start becoming a real contender again?

EDIT:

Just thought I'd add that with my spec and haste and all, the 3:2 rotation in BM for me gives a shot cycle (according to spreadsheet) of 2.44 and 2.42 unhasted and with quick shots respectively. In the MM spec those same shot cycles are 2.64 and 2.44. do the harder MM hits make up for the slightly slower 3:2 shot rotation speed?

 

wl04

It looks like i have same problems using this macro, as a result im getting 27% of autos and 73% of steady shots. I'm not sure but looks like it lowers my dps.

 

KraxisSingular

Barradin I think the problem for MM and Surv is that with your speed you will generally end up in a 2:1 rotation, which I don't know the effectiveness of over your old 1.5:1 rotation. Most hunters running with a speed of slower than 2.1 would see a lot of stacked Steadies over those slightly faster.

 

Rifeus

What is your attackspeed?

 

wl04

2.44 with [Crossbow of Relentless Strikes]

Its kinda wierd because i do 3 or even 4 stedies in a row instead of 2. Maybe its better to use my old [Sunfury Bow of the Phoenix] till my 3.0 bow will drop?
Just did some tests with the [Sunfury Bow of the Phoenix] on Dr.Boom and my rotation is ok with this bow. So it looks like if i want to use new x-bow i need some haste to make my SS fit properly.

 

Feanoro

3:2 = 1.5:1.

Auto, Steady, Multi, Auto, Steady, Arcane, Auto, Steady (both MS and AS cooling), Auto...

A 1.5:1 is what MM should use anyway and put the points in MS improvements. The whole point of MM is timing hard hitting shots, so I have to advise against any thoughts of an all-in-one macro. BM usually does a 1:1 rotation, which is fairly easy to maintain, but a MM 1.5:1 needs to be ready to alter rotation at a second's notice to react to such things as haste procs (Heroism/Bloodlust, Quick Shots, any gear procs) or CC near your target.

You mention 2.6 and 2.4 speeds. At 2.6, you should easily squeeze Steady and Multi (or Arcane) between Autos. 2.5 is the cutoff though, so when you go below it, you should drop down to a 1:1 rotation until the haste wears off.

As to Kill Command, I'm not convinced it's worth using as MM. BM of course should lean on it, but for a MM pet, the damage:mana cost just doesn't seem worth it.

 

• Intermission

Unfortunately, some of the hunter rotation naming conventions do not follow basic maths. A 3:2 rotation does not equal a 1.5:1 rotation. I justed want to clear it up for anyone reading that might be a little confused still.

3:2 is the typical name given for a rotation looking like this:

• Steady, Steady, Auto, Steady, Auto, repeat.

3 steady shots and 2 autoshots per rotation. This is often achieved using a macro along the lines of /cast autoshot /cast steadyshot while being BM specced. Extra haste procs with that macro can take you down to a 1:1 rotation (Lust, Rapid Fire, Haste Pots, etc).

This macro can also be used for Survival, and as you discussed, Marks. It will produce a 2:1 ratio of steadys:autos, and scale down to 3:2 and even 1:1 just like BM does under haste. The only difference is, Survival and Marks need some passive haste through gear (or 4 Leatherworkers in the party) to help keep the 2:1 on track. No haste means a bigger chance to chain steadies, depending on latency and spell pushback through damage. The reason for haste on gear is to reduce your steadyshot cast time, not so much your autoshot. Because GCD is not quickened with haste but steadyshot is, more haste will increase the amount of time between a steadyshot finishing and the global cooldown finishing (and therefore a new steadyshot starting). Given enough haste, an autoshot can fire inside this new-found downtime. The final result is a constant string of steadyshots with autoshots fitting through whenever they can. Once you reach this stage, the advantage of more haste is so the frequency of autoshot 'spitouts' through the steadyshots is increased (eg 2:1, 3:2, and 1:1 = one autoshot spitting out after every 2, every 1.5, and every 1 steadyshot).*

1:1.5(or 1:1.x) is a name given to a shot rotation that has 1.5(or 1.x) specials for every autoshot over an indefinite amount of time. It looks like this:

• Auto, Steady, SPECIAL, Auto, Steady (no special), Auto, Steady, SPECIAL, Auto, Steady (no special), repeat.

SPECIAL = Multi or Arcane. Note that the specials are SEPARATED so less clipping occurs! Doing "auto, steady, special, auto, steady, special" then a period of no specials is NOT ideal, as you want the time after the non-special steady to 'gain back' some GCD so you clip your future shot by a smaller amount. When adding Hunters Mark, Drums of Battle, Scorpid Sting, etc, you want to put it after one of the non-special steadys. It will clip the next steady/special by a little but it's the best place to put it rather than less clipping but delaying your next multi/arcane in the cycle.



*There is a lot more at play here in reality, especially in higher latency situations. Server-side spell queuing (brought in a few patches ago) will increase our steadyshot per minute rate. This is because it tries to cast steadyshot at the first available opportunity after the last one ended, and wont wait for our client to tell it to cast it (so long as we sent the message to the server to cast steadyshot while the last one was ending). This can increase steadychaining though, as a side effect of faster steadies can also temporarily cause you to shoot a second steady while the first steady has it's GCD still ticking! And then your client plays catchup on the next steady, delaying it so you dont actually gain more steadys over time. Also, it is posssible that the old "0.5 sec autoshot cast time" might be effected by haste also, which is another reason why autoshots can squeeze out through steadyshots easier with more haste. Not only does the window of oppurtinity open wider (steadyshot end to steadyshot start), but the time needed for autoshot gets narrower also (hasted 'autoshot cast'). That's just my speculation, anyway.

 

Aerevyn

Damn! Thanks bud. I know all this, I use it, but can I explain it to people? Can I hell? I'll just quote this at people. from now on.
Incidentally, has anyone worked out the optimum amount of haste for this (if there is such a thing). I've heard the number 80 being thrown around but that seems to be something to do with drums being 80 haste rating. Is there any reason why more than 80 haste rating is a bad thing (not talking about 300 haste here, just curious as to whether an amount like 100 might be beneficial or what problems that might cause).
I guess there's probably a hinge point at which the 2:1 becomes a 3:2 and edging on just the wrong side of that line will probably result in an inefficient 3:2 instead of a very efficient 2:1.

Assuming 3.0s weapon btw.

"There are 10 kinds of people in this world, those who know Binary and those who don't."

 

mom2kat

I have been struggling with DPS and shot rotations for a while now. It seem no matter what I do 500dps is about average for me in raids. I would like to think I am not badly geared.

If you want to see what my gearing/talents are like this is my armoury page.

So I am a MM hunter using teh Steelhawk Crossbow with the Kureni bag and in raid mysterious arrows.

Recently one of the hunters in my guild showed me this macro and when using it last night in Kara I was still around 500 dps but my mana burning had improved to where I could use aspect of the hawk instead of viper to avoid going OOM all the time. My latency is always between 100-175 so that should not be an issue at all.

#showtooltip steady shot
/castsequence reset=2 steadyshot, !autoshot
/cast[exisits,tartget=pettarget]kill command
/script ui errorsframe:clear()

I have this bound to my mouse wheel and spent the fight just mousing down to spam the macro. I did notice that kill command did not seem to go off unless I manually hit it. I also was not useing to many trinkets as I was trying to get this working right.

Please help me out by showing what I am doing wrong, I don't want to be a huntard any more!

Thanks for the thread it really got me thinking about shot rotations rather than just steady and arcane whenever they came up.

 

Faerdael

First, that is a 1:1 shot rotation macro for a beast master hunter. Basically made for a hunter with a 2.0 ranged attack speed (with BM castsequence macro, you generally set reset = (your ranged attack speed)). Unless you are specced into 5/5 serpent swiftness or have 300+ haste, that macro is not for you.

Second, I do not believe the line /cast[exisits,tartget=pettarget]kill command is correct
Should be /cast[target=pettarget,exists] Kill Command

Whenever I spec into Survival or Marksman (I leveled to 70 as nothing but MM), I have personally found best success in weaving my shots manually (although some others around here may have some long castsequence macro done).

I believe Intermission described the 1.5:1 shot rotation well, meaning
steady - special - auto - steady - auto - steady -special - atuo - repeat

I would advise that you look into getting a mod with an auto-shot timer in it a work on your shots while allowing auto's to fire properly. Quartz or Kharthus Hunter Timers both can do this.

As far as gearing, your hit rating is quite low. You should work on this. Personally, I would say ditch the halloween ring and start using the Violet Ring. Also, Cobra over Cleft for the legs, and you should look for someone to do +15 agility to your gloves (the mats are fairly cheap)

A few recommendations about spec. I see you have on 2D3 and 2 points in Clever Traps, so I am guessing you are still needed for crowd control in early Kara. In that case, and considering your hit rating, you may want to consider something like
Marksman Crowd Control

Although you should really outgrow this before too long. If you are serious about bringing up your DPS, you will want to spec Beastmaster

 

Wunlastri

BM isn't THAT much of a free dps boost for less effort....oh wait, what I meant was it is.

In 10 mans as much as it pains me, I have to say speccing BM is the best. Nothing is too pet unfriendly here and the reliance on your pet is good for training micromanaging for later zones and if you spec back to MM or SV.

Just...a quick nod to the poster before me's MM spec. Seeing as on live lower ranks can still overwrite IHM, I'd put that into IAS so that one of a MM hunter's bread and butter shots had a shorter CD.

 

mom2kat

okay I have quartz but am finding it a bitch to figure out how to set it up and read it.

my guild is onto Gruul/Mag in one night and kara is pretty much acake walk for us, I like to keep the trap option open right now though cause sometimes we are lacking in locks and preists. I am really looking forward to losing my last 2 dungeon 3 pieces though.

I will also add that I a m scared of BM. I leveled as marks and really know it fairly well, but am considering bM or Survival to get the raid buff.

Again thanks for the help guys, where can I find a 1.5:1 macro, while lag is not an issuemy FPS are and trying to do things visially can really suck!

 

mom2kat

POh another question is agi or ap better when looking at gems and enchants?

 

Beardstorm

Just a quickie here. Skimmed through the first 10 or so pages and the last 5 and didn't see it pop up, but do you guys use any addons to "see" when your autoshot has fired? It's a real pain in the arse actually "watching" for it.

 

Faerdael

@mom2kat
In my opinion, +10 agil gems > +20 ap gems > +8 agil gems > +16 ap gems > (dont buy green gems),
unless you go survival in which case +10 agil > +8 agil > (dont ever gem ap).
In short, agility over attack power for gemming.
Also, this is probably stuff best posted in the Hunter help me please thread, for future reference.

@beardstorm
I have used the auto-shot timer in Kharthus's Hunter Timers for some time now. Other people like Quartz.

 

Teldra