Erandan

Forgive me if this has an obvious answer, but I wasn't able to find anything about it using a search.

My understanding of PPM procs (as opposed to fix chance procs) is that the chance per swing for a proc to activate is proportional to the swing timer. So, on a 1 PPM proc, a 4.0 speed weapon would swing 15 times per minute, and hence, have a 1/15 chance of proccing on any given swing. And a 2.0 weapon speed would have a 1/30 chance of proccing per swing - net result would be that they have the same effective proc rate over time.

Long ago, I heard that haste does not boost the rate of PPM procs. Which makes me wonder - is the PPM per-hit chance based on the weapons base speed, or the weapon's hasted speed? If you had enough haste to turn a 4.0 speed weapon into a 2.0 swing time, would you get the 1/15 proc chance, or the 1/30 proc chance?

In a related question - bloodlust, slice and dice, and blade flurry aren't considered haste effects in the same sense, right? Do these things increase PPM procs proportionately?

 

◊ Lactose

PPM is based on the original weapon speed, as far as I know.

Look, Lactose, we'd rather you didn't eradicate the whole human race.
- Sam & Max

 

• Wodin

Lactose is correct. If you have a 1/15 chance on your 4.0 speed sword and get it down to 2.0 speed, then you'll proc once every 30s.

 

Overhead

Further, how does PPM apply to dual weilding?

for example, a 1PPM proc with 2 2.0 speed swords autoattacking, will it proc once or twice per minute?

how about 2.0 speed mainhand 1.0 offhand, does the offhand benefit from being faster?

My only experience with proccing items has been my BM hunter (2.7 speed, improved to base 2.0 or faster, procs down to 1.7, weave steadyshot and you're down to .8 effective speed and PPM items never stop proccing.

 

Spades

If it's applied to your attacks as a whole (Thundering Skyfire, for example) I believe it can proc off of either (both) hands. Weapon-specific enchants will, of course, only proc off the enchanted weapon.

"Existence has no pattern save what we imagine after staring at it for too long."
-Rorschach, Watchmen

 

slant

That's correct, but it's a pretty confusing way to phrase it.

Fiery enchant is 6PPM. A 2.6s weapon attacks 60/2.6=23.08x per minute, so each attack would have a 6/23.08=26% chance to proc. If you have slice and dice up for 30% haste, your weapon would attack at 2.0s, but each hit would still have a 26% chance to proc, so you would get 7.8 procs per minute. The same applies to instant attacks like sinister strike and windfury; each individual hit would have a 26% chance to proc fiery. This is independent per hand; if you have fiery on both hands with 2.6s weapons, each hand would have a 26% chance per hit.

Thundering skyfire tends to be 1PPM overall, but nobody has really tested how that's implemented or how it scales with other hastes.

 

Ilmatar

Last I knew, TSD had 1ppm w/ 45s hidden cooldown.

 

Casander

I believe that assumption about the hidden cooldown is slightly incorrect. According to the topic about the gem itself, I remember that it said that someone got his or her gem to proc no earlier than 39 seconds apart, which probably means that its cooldown is either 35 seconds or 40 seconds if some sort of system lag was in place during that time (just a guess on an explanation for that last one, really).

 

Machinator

To clarify does this mean that a DW class will get twice as many procs from things like Thundering Skyfire, Dragonspine, ect, assuming they dont have an internal cooldown?

"Information is ammunition."

 

Rerolled

With just auto-attacking, assuming both classes are hit-capped, yes. Of course, there's a bunch of other factors, like the number of instant attacks each class uses, abilities/talents that increase attack speed, etc.

 

arc

I think he means it's distributed over both weapon speeds. Say you have a 2.6 speed and a 1.5 speed, it'll be treated as a 4.1 speed when calculating the proc rate for either weapon. I could easily be mistaken, it's just my guess from how he worded it.

 

Spades

Yup.

"Existence has no pattern save what we imagine after staring at it for too long."
-Rorschach, Watchmen

 

sp00n

If at all, it would be 2.6+1.5/2 (average) / 2 (weapons) = 1.025 speed.
A 2.6 and 1.5 weapon with the proc rate of a 4.1 weapon would result in a much higher PPM.
A 4.1 weapon hits 14.63x a minute, therefore to get 1 PPM you would have a 6,83% on each strike to proc.
Carrying over this proc rate to a 2.6 weapon with 23.08 hits/minute, you would have a 157.69% chance to proc (6.83%*23.08), or 1.58 PPM (the OH would even have 2.73 PPM).


Now, actually I don't know if it is twice the proc rate if you are dual wielding, but as I don't have any personal backup, I'm going to believe Spades and Rerolled.

 

Zurgat

Yep, but sadly some of them do have the internal cooldown. :/

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Quorn

Actually maybe that is the main reason why we have internal cooldowns. (i.e to balance the proc rates for dual wielding and non-dual wielding classes)

 

Eskamo

I don't suppose anyone has done any testing on the effect of WF and PPM weapons? I'd just be hazarding a guess, but does it have no effect on the number of procs you'd see, as opposed to increases in haste?

Otherwise, alliance would have been yelling for nerfs and the horde stacking proc weapons (in vanilla).

 

Zurgat

With more haste you'd see more procs with WF than normal, but no more than the internal cooldown allows.
(since you reduce the downtime between each proc)

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nfw

What about hidden internal cooldowns? Are they affected at all by haste?

 

Spades

I doubt it. Using the Thundering Skyfire Diamond as an example, it's been pretty clearly pegged at around 40-45 seconds by multiple testers. If it was affected by haste, even something as simple as keeping S&D up would give a lower internal cooldown. It's possible, I suppose. Wasn't there one guy who reported something like a 36 second internal cooldown as his most frequent refresh? Maybe he was lying, or maybe he had S&D, Blade Flurry and the Mongoose proc running. Without more testing it's impossible to say.

"Existence has no pattern save what we imagine after staring at it for too long."
-Rorschach, Watchmen