Hunter Decisions with new Arena Gear...

tict · 06/15/07, 11:37 AM

Guys, wanted your take on the new Arena gear. I am a SV hunter using Sunfury atm. I will have the points at patch to buy the new xbow or 3 pieces of Arena gear (shoulders/chest/helm). The 3 pieces will be great upgrades, ill probably end up with 70 or so more AP and more crit/agility (for EW).

On the otherhand I am hearing that the 88DPS crossbow (or even the old arena crossbow) are HUGE upgrades over sunfury. I don't know what to make of that. I currently run a solid rotation of: auto-steady-kc (when up)-arcane (when up)-auto-steady-multi(when up) etc.

Are the Season1 and Season 2 crossbows huge upgrades from Sunfury? I am leaning towards the gear, but with some of the threads in the hunter forums I am feeling doubtful...help?

T

Reachie · 06/15/07, 11:43 AM

I would adivse you to fill out your profile, and not sign your posts.. (for your safety!)

Overhead · 06/15/07, 11:49 AM

The bow is nice, but not nearly as important as weapons are for other classes. And your bow is pretty good.

Keep in mind, every arcane and steady shot you set off has nothing to do with your bow. You're pet's damage also scales well with your AP, not your weapon.

Do I think the arena bow will be an upgrade for you? Absolutely. But unless you have some amazing pvp gear (which I havn't seen much of outside of arena gear), you'll probably benefit more from the 3 pieces of armor and waiting till you have all of it before buying a bow.

Further, a profile with server and character name would make it easy to look you up on armory and give a better suggestion.

Osse · 06/15/07, 11:49 AM

You should be aiming for 2.6 speed weapon if you are survival specced without passive haste items.

3.0 is a bit too slow for non BM spec.

Lactose · 06/15/07, 11:52 AM

Originally Posted by Overhead

Keep in mind, every arcane and steady shot you set off has nothing to do with your bow.

Steady Shot takes weapon damage into account, even though the tooltip doesn't reflect this.

tict · 06/15/07, 11:53 AM

Thanks for the replies. I updated my profile so you guys can see my setup atm. Also, I am primarily concerned with my PVE dps atm with whatever items I choose to purchase FYI.

More comments are welcome..ty so much

Mech0z · 06/15/07, 12:04 PM

Now that we are at it, have anyone done some calculations with the new S2 Xbow against old weapons in BM spec? Because I have sunfury as well, but I will be able to buy the new xbow next week.
The stats on the xbow dont seem as good as on sunfury and the 0.1 speed difference, which is what causes my doubts.

seniorgarcia · 06/15/07, 1:22 PM

Now, the S2 arena crossbow seems to be a hot topic since it appeared on the ptr and the general opinion goes into the "it sucks" direction.

Then i saw this guys math on the wow generals forums

Originally Posted by Codecoww

Ok, here are the numbers for average auto shot:

Min Max Average = (max-min)/2+min WS

211 318 264.5 3

204 307 255.5 3.1

dmg=avg+(AP/14)*WS

AP dmg (S2) dmg (S1)

1000 478.7857143 476.9285714

1100 500.2142857 499.0714286

1200 521.6428571 521.2142857

1300 543.0714286 543.3571429

1400 564.5 565.5

1500 585.9285714 587.6428571

1600 607.3571429 609.7857143

1700 628.7857143 631.9285714

1800 650.2142857 654.0714286

The crossover point AP is:

AP = 14*(avg1 - avg2)/(WS2 - WS1)

Using the above numbers we get 1260 AP.

So at 1260 AP on average you're hitting harder auto shots with Season 1 Xbow than Season 2 Xbow.

I have made a graph that highlights the sin.

http://xs216.xs.to/xs216/07245/sidegrade.png

This looks right to me, but doesnt the fact that i will do approximately 3% more damage, from firing more shots in the same timeframe even out the damage loss caused by the faster speed?
If you factor that in the actual crossover point would be somewhere over 3000 ap?

I would really like some input on this and since this is my first time posting here i just hope i dont get flamed for overlooking something stupid ;-)

tict · 06/15/07, 2:55 PM

I would love to see some actual PTR numbers from someone with both Sunfury and the Season 2 (or 1) xbow. Maybe Dr. Boom info? I am seeing people on both sides of the issue...which is the upgrade? and if so, is it big or small?

Howitzer · 06/15/07, 3:36 PM

Originally Posted by Lactose

Steady Shot takes weapon damage into account, even though the tooltip doesn't reflect this.

Bingo, I was just going to say this. A lot of people are confused in this aspect and don't realize that weapon min-max makes a big difference in your steady shots. Having said that, I've contemplated blowing my 3750 some-odd points on the Xbow on Tuesday of this week. Not sure though...I should probably just wait for Vashj's bow to drop, sigh. =\

EDIT: The guy from the wow board that posted the comparisons for autoshot damage on S1 xbow vs S2 xbow is correct, but he's not factoring in the other added bonuses of a 3.0 spd vs 3.1 like shooting off more shots per minute. Don't forget that multi-shot and aimed shot are normalized to a set speed and even if you have a 5.0 speed bow its not going to make a damn bit of difference on anything except your autoshots. I don't know about you, but I sure as hell don't solely depend on my autoshots in PVP.

Cheeky · 06/15/07, 4:01 PM

Originally Posted by Howitzer

EDIT: The guy from the wow board that posted the comparisons for autoshot damage on S1 xbow vs S2 xbow is correct, but he's not factoring in the other added bonuses of a 3.0 spd vs 3.1 like shooting off more shots per minute. Don't forget that multi-shot and aimed shot are normalized to a set speed and even if you have a 5.0 speed bow its not going to make a damn bit of difference on anything except your autoshots. I don't know about you, but I sure as hell don't solely depend on my autoshots in PVP.

Actually, only the RAP portion of Aimed/Multi are normalized to 2.8. Base weapon damage and ammo scale off of the weapons speed as the do for normal shots. Slower still is better for those 2 specials. And those 2 specials dominate PvP.

seniorgarcia · 06/15/07, 4:13 PM

Originally Posted by Cheeky

Actually, only the RAP portion of Aimed/Multi are normalized to 2.8. Base weapon damage and ammo scale off of the weapons speed as the do for normal shots. Slower still is better for those 2 specials. And those 2 specials dominate PvP.

But since the S2 crossbow has more min/max damage even for those 2 shots it will be an upgrade.
Guess i'll get the S2 crossbow as soon as the patch hits, will take some time till i see a drop from vashj.

EDIT
Except for the ammo thing, that comes to an additional ~3 damage/shot for the s1 crossbow, still enough of an upgrade for me :-)