[Mage] How Can Arcane Damage Work? - Page 40

Zipher · 08/20/07, 1:02 AM

I went out to Silithus and couldn't even get assignments because while I was able to kill the big bug it always killed the quest guy first. I'll eventually have my brother help me out and just round up a bunch of assignments at once then solo grind them but it seems like such a hassle.

Hopefully ZA loot is previewed and there's some awesome ring to that will stop me from starting this grind.

songster · 08/20/07, 4:35 AM

Originally Posted by Roywyn

With more haste, the amount of all procs goes up but the amount of Ashtongue procs goes down? That seems odd to me, or am I being dense?

Chain procs refresh the duration and are therefore only "seen" as one proc, surely?

dedmonwakeen · 08/20/07, 7:35 AM

Originally Posted by Roywyn

With more haste, the amount of all procs goes up but the amount of Ashtongue procs goes down? That seems odd to me, or am I being dense?

Wrath of Cenarius - best uptime is a proc every 22.2 seconds a 132 damage proc for 10 seconds. 132*10/22.2 = 59.5 spell damage. Maybe a bit less since procs will overlap?

Sorry guys..... When procs get "refreshed" they weren't being reported.

More hast => More chances of refresh which was hurting the report.

I'll fix the code and re-run.

EDIT: I modeled WrathOfCenarius similar to Spellstrike: No internal cooldown, but no "refreshes" allowed. Is this correct?

Roywyn · 08/20/07, 11:08 AM

Originally Posted by dedmonwakeen

EDIT: I modeled WrathOfCenarius similar to Spellstrike: No internal cooldown, but no "refreshes" allowed. Is this correct?

I think every proc without a cooldown can refresh itself, I haven't heard of a proc that can't reproc while active yet. And I'm pretty sure that Spellstrike can reproc while active.

Quoting a wowhead comment: "I would judge the proc rate on this to be 5%, and it will refresh itself in AoE situations, such as using Hellfire in Core Hound packs."
Wrath of Cenarius - Items - World of Warcraft

Sounds like it can reproc while active. Can someone who actually has the ring check it?

Edit: Confirmed that Spellstrike proc can refresh. AoE on Dr. Boom is a fast reliable test.

dedmonwakeen · 08/20/07, 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by Roywyn

I think every proc without a cooldown can refresh itself, I haven't heard of a proc that can't reproc while active yet. And I'm pretty sure that Spellstrike can reproc while active.

Quoting a wowhead comment: "I would judge the proc rate on this to be 5%, and it will refresh itself in AoE situations, such as using Hellfire in Core Hound packs."
Wrath of Cenarius - Items - World of Warcraft

Sounds like it can reproc while active. Can someone who actually has the ring check it?

Thanks for the details, Roywyn. I'll make the appropriate changes.

EDIT: Bah..... Attack of the stupids..... Removing my "real-life" sig......

dedmonwakeen · 08/20/07, 12:36 PM

1200 +dmg BUDGET***
350 +crit
76 +hit
arcane missle spam

boss fight
10min length
infinite mana assumed (i know this is a ridiculous assumption)
200ms latency

The base starts with a 1200 +dmg budget and then "purchases" 76 +hit and 350 +crit.
Subsequent runs give up +dmg for +haste.

Look below on the "procs" line for the average time between procs for Cenarius/Ashtongue/TLC/MSD

Cenarius has been updated to "refresh".

With 0 Haste Rating:

./wow_sim file=profiles/fight file=profiles/mage_48_13_0_am spells=arcane_missles patch=2.2.0 mystical_skyfire=1 bugged_skyfire=1 wrath_of_cenarius=1 ashtongue_talisman=1 lightning_capacitor=1 haste_rating=0
Player=mage_48_13_0_am DPS=1127.5 DPM=6.2 
    Stats:  dmg=1117  hit=6.0  crit=24.7  haste=0.0
    Spells:
    arcane_missles        Casts=144|4.2sec  Dmg=4283|616800|91%  DPS=856.7|856.7  Crit=33%  AvgTick=869
    lightning_discharge   Casts=78 |7.7sec  Dmg=756|58948|9%  DPS=503.8|503.8  Crit=24%
    Procs:   ashtongue_talisman=117|5.1sec  clear_casting=14|41.8sec  lightning_capacitor=78|7.7sec  mystical_skyfire=39|15.3sec  wrath_of_cenarius=38|15.4sec

With 100 Haste Rating:

./wow_sim file=profiles/fight file=profiles/mage_48_13_0_am spells=arcane_missles patch=2.2.0 mystical_skyfire=1 bugged_skyfire=1 wrath_of_cenarius=1 ashtongue_talisman=1 lightning_capacitor=1 haste_rating=100
Player=mage_48_13_0_am DPS=1193.3 DPM=6.1 
    Stats:  dmg=1090  hit=6.0  crit=24.7  haste=6.0
    Spells:
    arcane_missles        Casts=153|3.9sec  Dmg=4238|648344|91%  DPS=901.1|901.1  Crit=33%  AvgTick=858
    lightning_discharge   Casts=83 |7.2sec  Dmg=752|62438|9%  DPS=501.5|501.5  Crit=24%
    Procs:   ashtongue_talisman=124|4.8sec  clear_casting=15|39.2sec  lightning_capacitor=83|7.2sec  mystical_skyfire=41|14.3sec  wrath_of_cenarius=41|14.3sec

With 200 Haste Rating:

./wow_sim file=profiles/fight file=profiles/mage_48_13_0_am spells=arcane_missles patch=2.2.0 mystical_skyfire=1 bugged_skyfire=1 wrath_of_cenarius=1 ashtongue_talisman=1 lightning_capacitor=1 haste_rating=200
Player=mage_48_13_0_am DPS=1237.6 DPM=6.0 
    Stats:  dmg=1041  hit=6.0  crit=24.7  haste=11.2
    Spells:
    arcane_missles        Casts=163|3.7sec  Dmg=4145|675569|91%  DPS=933.8|933.8  Crit=33%  AvgTick=838
    lightning_discharge   Casts=89 |6.7sec  Dmg=756|67271|9%  DPS=503.9|503.9  Crit=25%
    Procs:   ashtongue_talisman=134|4.5sec  clear_casting=16|36.2sec  lightning_capacitor=89|6.7sec  mystical_skyfire=44|13.5sec  wrath_of_cenarius=44|13.5sec

With 300 Haste Rating:

./wow_sim file=profiles/fight file=profiles/mage_48_13_0_am spells=arcane_missles patch=2.2.0 mystical_skyfire=1 bugged_skyfire=1 wrath_of_cenarius=1 ashtongue_talisman=1 lightning_capacitor=1 haste_rating=300
Player=mage_48_13_0_am DPS=1272.8 DPM=5.8 
    Stats:  dmg=974  hit=6.0  crit=24.7  haste=16.0
    Spells:
    arcane_missles        Casts=166|3.5sec  Dmg=3987|661883|91%  DPS=948.9|948.9  Crit=33%  AvgTick=808
    lightning_discharge   Casts=90 |6.4sec  Dmg=756|68066|9%  DPS=504.2|504.2  Crit=24%
    Procs:   ashtongue_talisman=135|4.2sec  clear_casting=16|34.1sec  lightning_capacitor=90|6.3sec  mystical_skyfire=44|12.7sec  wrath_of_cenarius=44|12.8sec

With 400 Haste Rating:

./wow_sim file=profiles/fight file=profiles/mage_48_13_0_am spells=arcane_missles patch=2.2.0 mystical_skyfire=1 bugged_skyfire=1 wrath_of_cenarius=1 ashtongue_talisman=1 lightning_capacitor=1 haste_rating=400
Player=mage_48_13_0_am DPS=1293.5 DPM=5.6 
    Stats:  dmg=892  hit=6.0  crit=24.7  haste=20.2
    Spells:
    arcane_missles        Casts=160|3.3sec  Dmg=3811|609765|90%  DPS=955.2|955.2  Crit=33%  AvgTick=772
    lightning_discharge   Casts=86 |6.1sec  Dmg=761|65424|10%  DPS=507.2|507.2  Crit=24%
    Procs:   ashtongue_talisman=130|4.0sec  clear_casting=15|32.7sec  lightning_capacitor=86|6.0sec  mystical_skyfire=43|11.9sec  wrath_of_cenarius=43|12.0sec

A 30sec trace from a Elemental Shaman + Arcane Mage combo:

0.19     Player mage_48_13_0_am starts casting arcane_missles 0.00
0.19     Player mage_48_13_0_am casts spell arcane_missles
0.19     Player mage_48_13_0_am spends 832 mana
0.19     Player mage_48_13_0_am spell arcane_missles starts ticking
0.20     Player shaman_41_0_20 starts casting totem_of_wrath 0.00
0.20     Player shaman_41_0_20 casts spell totem_of_wrath
0.20     Player shaman_41_0_20 spends 400 mana
0.20     Player shaman_41_0_20 spell totem_of_wrath starts ticking
0.20     Player mage_48_13_0_am gains Totem of Wrath
0.20     Player shaman_41_0_20 gains Totem of Wrath
0.99     Spell arcane_missles ticks (1)
0.99     Target Fluffy Pillow suffers 590 arcane damage from mage_48_13_0_am 's arcane_missles
1.79     Spell arcane_missles ticks (2)
1.79     Target Fluffy Pillow suffers 590 arcane damage from mage_48_13_0_am 's arcane_missles
1.87     Player shaman_41_0_20 starts casting wrath_of_air_totem 0.00
1.87     Player shaman_41_0_20 casts spell wrath_of_air_totem
1.87     Player shaman_41_0_20 spends 320 mana
1.87     Player shaman_41_0_20 spell wrath_of_air_totem starts ticking
1.87     Player mage_48_13_0_am gains Wrath of Air
1.87     Player shaman_41_0_20 gains Wrath of Air
2.58     Spell arcane_missles ticks (3)
2.58     Target Fluffy Pillow suffers 590 arcane damage from mage_48_13_0_am 's arcane_missles
3.38     Spell arcane_missles ticks (4)
3.38     Player mage_48_13_0_am gains Lightning Capacitor (1)
3.38     Player mage_48_13_0_am gains Ashtongue Talisman
3.38     Target Fluffy Pillow suffers 1033 arcane damage from mage_48_13_0_am 's arcane_missles
3.60     Player shaman_41_0_20 starts casting elemental_mastery 0.00
3.60     Player shaman_41_0_20 casts Elemental Mastery
3.60     Player shaman_41_0_20 gains Elemental Mastery
3.60     Player shaman_41_0_20 starts casting elemental_mastery-lightning_bolt 2.00
3.60     Player shaman_41_0_20 casts spell elemental_mastery-lightning_bolt
3.60     Player shaman_41_0_20 spends 0 mana
3.60     Target Fluffy Pillow suffers 3067 nature damage from shaman_41_0_20 's elemental_mastery-lightning_bolt
3.60     Player shaman_41_0_20 loses Elemental Mastery
3.81     Player shaman_41_0_20 starts casting searing_totem 0.00
3.81     Player shaman_41_0_20 casts spell searing_totem
3.81     Player shaman_41_0_20 spends 154 mana
3.81     Player shaman_41_0_20 spell searing_totem is resisted
4.18     Spell arcane_missles ticks (5)
4.18     Target Fluffy Pillow suffers 590 arcane damage from mage_48_13_0_am 's arcane_missles
4.18     Player mage_48_13_0_am spell arcane_missles finishes ticking
4.39     Player mage_48_13_0_am starts casting arcane_missles 0.00
4.39     Player mage_48_13_0_am casts spell arcane_missles
4.39     Player mage_48_13_0_am spends 832 mana
4.39     Player mage_48_13_0_am spell arcane_missles starts ticking
5.13     Spell arcane_missles ticks (1)
5.13     Target Fluffy Pillow suffers 627 arcane damage from mage_48_13_0_am 's arcane_missles
5.50     Player shaman_41_0_20 starts casting searing_totem 0.00
5.50     Player shaman_41_0_20 casts spell searing_totem
5.50     Player shaman_41_0_20 spends 154 mana
5.50     Player shaman_41_0_20 spell searing_totem starts ticking
5.88     Spell arcane_missles ticks (2)
5.88     Target Fluffy Pillow suffers 627 arcane damage from mage_48_13_0_am 's arcane_missles
6.62     Spell arcane_missles ticks (3)
6.62     Player mage_48_13_0_am gains Mystical Skyfire
6.62     Target Fluffy Pillow suffers 627 arcane damage from mage_48_13_0_am 's arcane_missles
7.16     Player shaman_41_0_20 starts casting bloodlust 0.00
7.16     Player shaman_41_0_20 casts spell bloodlust
7.16     Player shaman_41_0_20 spends 750 mana
7.16     Player shaman_41_0_20 spell bloodlust starts ticking
7.16     Player mage_48_13_0_am gains Bloodlust
7.16     Player shaman_41_0_20 gains Bloodlust
7.36     Spell arcane_missles ticks (4)
7.36     Player mage_48_13_0_am gains Wrath of Cenarius
7.36     Target Fluffy Pillow suffers 627 arcane damage from mage_48_13_0_am 's arcane_missles
7.50     Spell searing_totem ticks (1)
7.50     Target Fluffy Pillow suffers 159 fire damage from shaman_41_0_20 's searing_totem
8.11     Spell arcane_missles ticks (5)
8.11     Target Fluffy Pillow suffers 627 arcane damage from mage_48_13_0_am 's arcane_missles
8.11     Player mage_48_13_0_am spell arcane_missles finishes ticking
8.29     Player mage_48_13_0_am starts casting arcane_missles 0.00
8.29     Player mage_48_13_0_am casts spell arcane_missles
8.29     Player mage_48_13_0_am spends 832 mana
8.29     Player mage_48_13_0_am spell arcane_missles starts ticking
8.38     Player mage_48_13_0_am loses Ashtongue Talisman
8.55     Spell arcane_missles ticks (1)
8.55     Target Fluffy Pillow suffers 674 arcane damage from mage_48_13_0_am 's arcane_missles
8.81     Spell arcane_missles ticks (2)
8.81     Target Fluffy Pillow suffers 674 arcane damage from mage_48_13_0_am 's arcane_missles
8.88     Player shaman_41_0_20 starts casting lightning_bolt 1.40
9.07     Spell arcane_missles ticks (3)
9.07     Target Fluffy Pillow suffers 674 arcane damage from mage_48_13_0_am 's arcane_missles
9.33     Spell arcane_missles ticks (4)
9.33     Target Fluffy Pillow suffers 674 arcane damage from mage_48_13_0_am 's arcane_missles
9.50     Spell searing_totem ticks (2)
9.50     Target Fluffy Pillow suffers 159 fire damage from shaman_41_0_20 's searing_totem
9.59     Spell arcane_missles ticks (5)
9.59     Player mage_48_13_0_am gains Lightning Capacitor (2)
9.59     Player mage_48_13_0_am gains Ashtongue Talisman
9.59     Target Fluffy Pillow suffers 1180 arcane damage from mage_48_13_0_am 's arcane_missles
9.59     Player mage_48_13_0_am spell arcane_missles finishes ticking
9.78     Player mage_48_13_0_am starts casting arcane_missles 0.00
9.78     Player mage_48_13_0_am casts spell arcane_missles
9.78     Player mage_48_13_0_am spends 832 mana
9.78     Player mage_48_13_0_am spell arcane_missles starts ticking
10.04    Spell arcane_missles ticks (1)
10.04    Target Fluffy Pillow suffers 674 arcane damage from mage_48_13_0_am 's arcane_missles
10.28    Player shaman_41_0_20 casts spell lightning_bolt
10.28    Player shaman_41_0_20 spends 297 mana
10.28    Target Fluffy Pillow suffers 3067 nature damage from shaman_41_0_20 's lightning_bolt
10.30    Spell arcane_missles ticks (2)
10.30    Target Fluffy Pillow suffers 674 arcane damage from mage_48_13_0_am 's arcane_missles
10.50    Player shaman_41_0_20 starts casting lightning_bolt 1.40
10.56    Spell arcane_missles ticks (3)
10.56    Target Fluffy Pillow suffers 674 arcane damage from mage_48_13_0_am 's arcane_missles
10.62    Player mage_48_13_0_am loses Mystical Skyfire
10.82    Spell arcane_missles ticks (4)
10.82    Target Fluffy Pillow suffers 674 arcane damage from mage_48_13_0_am 's arcane_missles
11.08    Spell arcane_missles ticks (5)
11.08    Target Fluffy Pillow suffers 674 arcane damage from mage_48_13_0_am 's arcane_missles
11.08    Player mage_48_13_0_am spell arcane_missles finishes ticking
11.27    Player mage_48_13_0_am starts casting arcane_missles 0.00
11.27    Player mage_48_13_0_am casts spell arcane_missles
11.27    Player mage_48_13_0_am spends 832 mana
11.27    Player mage_48_13_0_am spell arcane_missles starts ticking
11.50    Spell searing_totem ticks (3)
11.50    Target Fluffy Pillow suffers 159 fire damage from shaman_41_0_20 's searing_totem
11.79    Spell arcane_missles ticks (1)
11.79    Player mage_48_13_0_am creates spell lightning_discharge
11.79    Player mage_48_13_0_am starts casting lightning_discharge 0.00
11.79    Player mage_48_13_0_am casts spell lightning_discharge
11.79    Player mage_48_13_0_am spends 0 mana
11.79    Target Fluffy Pillow suffers 699 nature damage from mage_48_13_0_am 's lightning_discharge
11.79    Target Fluffy Pillow suffers 1180 arcane damage from mage_48_13_0_am 's arcane_missles
11.90    Player shaman_41_0_20 casts spell lightning_bolt
11.90    Player shaman_41_0_20 spends 119 mana
11.90    Target Fluffy Pillow suffers 3067 nature damage from shaman_41_0_20 's lightning_bolt
12.11    Player shaman_41_0_20 starts casting lightning_bolt 1.40
12.31    Spell arcane_missles ticks (2)
12.31    Target Fluffy Pillow suffers 674 arcane damage from mage_48_13_0_am 's arcane_missles
12.83    Spell arcane_missles ticks (3)
12.83    Player mage_48_13_0_am spell arcane_missles is resisted
13.35    Spell arcane_missles ticks (4)
13.35    Target Fluffy Pillow suffers 674 arcane damage from mage_48_13_0_am 's arcane_missles
13.50    Spell searing_totem ticks (4)
13.50    Target Fluffy Pillow suffers 159 fire damage from shaman_41_0_20 's searing_totem
13.51    Player shaman_41_0_20 casts spell lightning_bolt
13.51    Player shaman_41_0_20 spends 119 mana
13.51    Target Fluffy Pillow suffers 1534 nature damage from shaman_41_0_20 's lightning_bolt
13.74    Player shaman_41_0_20 starts casting lightning_bolt 1.40
13.87    Spell arcane_missles ticks (5)
13.87    Target Fluffy Pillow suffers 674 arcane damage from mage_48_13_0_am 's arcane_missles
13.87    Player mage_48_13_0_am spell arcane_missles finishes ticking
14.06    Player mage_48_13_0_am starts casting arcane_missles 0.00
14.06    Player mage_48_13_0_am casts spell arcane_missles
14.06    Player mage_48_13_0_am spends 832 mana
14.06    Player mage_48_13_0_am spell arcane_missles starts ticking
14.58    Spell arcane_missles ticks (1)
14.58    Target Fluffy Pillow suffers 674 arcane damage from mage_48_13_0_am 's arcane_missles
15.10    Spell arcane_missles ticks (2)
15.10    Target Fluffy Pillow suffers 674 arcane damage from mage_48_13_0_am 's arcane_missles
15.14    Player shaman_41_0_20 casts spell lightning_bolt
15.14    Player shaman_41_0_20 spends 297 mana
15.14    Target Fluffy Pillow suffers 1534 nature damage from shaman_41_0_20 's lightning_bolt
15.34    Player shaman_41_0_20 starts casting lightning_bolt 1.40
15.50    Spell searing_totem ticks (5)
15.50    Target Fluffy Pillow suffers 159 fire damage from shaman_41_0_20 's searing_totem
15.62    Spell arcane_missles ticks (3)
15.62    Target Fluffy Pillow suffers 674 arcane damage from mage_48_13_0_am 's arcane_missles
16.14    Spell arcane_missles ticks (4)
16.14    Target Fluffy Pillow suffers 674 arcane damage from mage_48_13_0_am 's arcane_missles
16.66    Spell arcane_missles ticks (5)
16.66    Target Fluffy Pillow suffers 674 arcane damage from mage_48_13_0_am 's arcane_missles
16.66    Player mage_48_13_0_am spell arcane_missles finishes ticking
16.74    Player shaman_41_0_20 casts spell lightning_bolt
16.74    Player shaman_41_0_20 spends 297 mana
16.74    Target Fluffy Pillow suffers 1534 nature damage from shaman_41_0_20 's lightning_bolt
16.79    Player mage_48_13_0_am loses Ashtongue Talisman
16.82    Player mage_48_13_0_am starts casting arcane_missles 0.00
16.82    Player mage_48_13_0_am casts spell arcane_missles
16.82    Player mage_48_13_0_am spends 832 mana
16.82    Player mage_48_13_0_am spell arcane_missles starts ticking
16.89    Player shaman_41_0_20 starts casting lightning_bolt 1.40
17.38    Spell arcane_missles ticks (1)
17.38    Target Fluffy Pillow suffers 674 arcane damage from mage_48_13_0_am 's arcane_missles
17.50    Spell searing_totem ticks (6)
17.50    Target Fluffy Pillow suffers 159 fire damage from shaman_41_0_20 's searing_totem
17.94    Spell arcane_missles ticks (2)
17.94    Target Fluffy Pillow suffers 674 arcane damage from mage_48_13_0_am 's arcane_missles
18.29    Player shaman_41_0_20 casts spell lightning_bolt
18.29    Player shaman_41_0_20 spends 297 mana
18.29    Target Fluffy Pillow suffers 1534 nature damage from shaman_41_0_20 's lightning_bolt
18.50    Spell arcane_missles ticks (3)
18.50    Player mage_48_13_0_am gains Lightning Capacitor (1)
18.50    Player mage_48_13_0_am gains Ashtongue Talisman
18.50    Target Fluffy Pillow suffers 1180 arcane damage from mage_48_13_0_am 's arcane_missles
18.52    Player shaman_41_0_20 starts casting lightning_bolt 1.40
19.06    Spell arcane_missles ticks (4)
19.06    Target Fluffy Pillow suffers 674 arcane damage from mage_48_13_0_am 's arcane_missles
19.50    Spell searing_totem ticks (7)
19.50    Target Fluffy Pillow suffers 159 fire damage from shaman_41_0_20 's searing_totem
19.62    Spell arcane_missles ticks (5)
19.62    Player mage_48_13_0_am gains Lightning Capacitor (2)
19.62    Target Fluffy Pillow suffers 1180 arcane damage from mage_48_13_0_am 's arcane_missles
19.62    Player mage_48_13_0_am spell arcane_missles finishes ticking
19.86    Player mage_48_13_0_am starts casting arcane_missles 0.00
19.86    Player mage_48_13_0_am casts spell arcane_missles
19.86    Player mage_48_13_0_am spends 832 mana
19.86    Player mage_48_13_0_am spell arcane_missles starts ticking
19.92    Player shaman_41_0_20 casts spell lightning_bolt
19.92    Player shaman_41_0_20 spends 297 mana
19.92    Target Fluffy Pillow suffers 1534 nature damage from shaman_41_0_20 's lightning_bolt
20.15    Player shaman_41_0_20 starts casting lightning_bolt 1.40
20.38    Spell arcane_missles ticks (1)
20.38    Player mage_48_13_0_am starts casting lightning_discharge 0.00
20.38    Player mage_48_13_0_am casts spell lightning_discharge
20.38    Player mage_48_13_0_am spends 0 mana
20.38    Target Fluffy Pillow suffers 699 nature damage from mage_48_13_0_am 's lightning_discharge
20.38    Target Fluffy Pillow suffers 1180 arcane damage from mage_48_13_0_am 's arcane_missles
20.90    Spell arcane_missles ticks (2)
20.90    Target Fluffy Pillow suffers 674 arcane damage from mage_48_13_0_am 's arcane_missles
21.42    Spell arcane_missles ticks (3)
21.42    Player mage_48_13_0_am gains Lightning Capacitor (1)
21.42    Target Fluffy Pillow suffers 1180 arcane damage from mage_48_13_0_am 's arcane_missles
21.50    Spell searing_totem ticks (8)
21.50    Target Fluffy Pillow suffers 159 fire damage from shaman_41_0_20 's searing_totem
21.55    Player shaman_41_0_20 casts spell lightning_bolt
21.55    Player shaman_41_0_20 spends 297 mana
21.55    Target Fluffy Pillow suffers 1534 nature damage from shaman_41_0_20 's lightning_bolt
21.75    Player shaman_41_0_20 starts casting lightning_bolt 1.40
21.94    Spell arcane_missles ticks (4)
21.94    Target Fluffy Pillow suffers 674 arcane damage from mage_48_13_0_am 's arcane_missles
22.46    Spell arcane_missles ticks (5)
22.46    Target Fluffy Pillow suffers 674 arcane damage from mage_48_13_0_am 's arcane_missles
22.46    Player mage_48_13_0_am spell arcane_missles finishes ticking
22.65    Player mage_48_13_0_am starts casting arcane_missles 0.00
22.65    Player mage_48_13_0_am casts spell arcane_missles
22.65    Player mage_48_13_0_am spends 832 mana
22.65    Player mage_48_13_0_am spell arcane_missles starts ticking
23.15    Player shaman_41_0_20 casts spell lightning_bolt
23.15    Player shaman_41_0_20 spends 297 mana
23.15    Target Fluffy Pillow suffers 3067 nature damage from shaman_41_0_20 's lightning_bolt
23.17    Spell arcane_missles ticks (1)
23.17    Target Fluffy Pillow suffers 674 arcane damage from mage_48_13_0_am 's arcane_missles
23.34    Player shaman_41_0_20 starts casting lightning_bolt 1.40
23.50    Spell searing_totem ticks (9)
23.50    Target Fluffy Pillow suffers 159 fire damage from shaman_41_0_20 's searing_totem
23.69    Spell arcane_missles ticks (2)
23.69    Target Fluffy Pillow suffers 674 arcane damage from mage_48_13_0_am 's arcane_missles
24.21    Spell arcane_missles ticks (3)
24.21    Player mage_48_13_0_am gains Lightning Capacitor (2)
24.21    Target Fluffy Pillow suffers 1180 arcane damage from mage_48_13_0_am 's arcane_missles
24.73    Spell arcane_missles ticks (4)
24.73    Player mage_48_13_0_am starts casting lightning_discharge 0.00
24.73    Player mage_48_13_0_am casts spell lightning_discharge
24.73    Player mage_48_13_0_am spends 0 mana
24.73    Target Fluffy Pillow suffers 699 nature damage from mage_48_13_0_am 's lightning_discharge
24.73    Target Fluffy Pillow suffers 1180 arcane damage from mage_48_13_0_am 's arcane_missles
24.74    Player shaman_41_0_20 casts spell lightning_bolt
24.74    Player shaman_41_0_20 spends 119 mana
24.74    Target Fluffy Pillow suffers 1534 nature damage from shaman_41_0_20 's lightning_bolt
24.95    Player shaman_41_0_20 starts casting lightning_bolt 1.40
25.25    Spell arcane_missles ticks (5)
25.25    Target Fluffy Pillow suffers 674 arcane damage from mage_48_13_0_am 's arcane_missles
25.25    Player mage_48_13_0_am spell arcane_missles finishes ticking
25.41    Player mage_48_13_0_am starts casting arcane_missles 0.00
25.41    Player mage_48_13_0_am casts spell arcane_missles
25.41    Player mage_48_13_0_am spends 832 mana
25.41    Player mage_48_13_0_am spell arcane_missles starts ticking
25.50    Spell searing_totem ticks (10)
25.50    Target Fluffy Pillow suffers 159 fire damage from shaman_41_0_20 's searing_totem
25.93    Spell arcane_missles ticks (1)
25.93    Target Fluffy Pillow suffers 674 arcane damage from mage_48_13_0_am 's arcane_missles
26.35    Player shaman_41_0_20 casts spell lightning_bolt
26.35    Player shaman_41_0_20 spends 297 mana
26.35    Target Fluffy Pillow suffers 1534 nature damage from shaman_41_0_20 's lightning_bolt
26.45    Spell arcane_missles ticks (2)
26.45    Target Fluffy Pillow suffers 674 arcane damage from mage_48_13_0_am 's arcane_missles
26.60    Player shaman_41_0_20 starts casting lightning_bolt 1.40
26.97    Spell arcane_missles ticks (3)
26.97    Target Fluffy Pillow suffers 674 arcane damage from mage_48_13_0_am 's arcane_missles
27.49    Spell arcane_missles ticks (4)
27.49    Target Fluffy Pillow suffers 674 arcane damage from mage_48_13_0_am 's arcane_missles
27.50    Spell searing_totem ticks (11)
27.50    Target Fluffy Pillow suffers 159 fire damage from shaman_41_0_20 's searing_totem
28.00    Player shaman_41_0_20 casts spell lightning_bolt
28.00    Player shaman_41_0_20 spends 297 mana
28.00    Target Fluffy Pillow suffers 1534 nature damage from shaman_41_0_20 's lightning_bolt
28.01    Spell arcane_missles ticks (5)
28.01    Player mage_48_13_0_am spell arcane_missles is resisted
28.01    Player mage_48_13_0_am spell arcane_missles finishes ticking
28.15    Player shaman_41_0_20 starts casting lightning_bolt 1.40
28.24    Player mage_48_13_0_am starts casting arcane_missles 0.00
28.24    Player mage_48_13_0_am casts spell arcane_missles
28.24    Player mage_48_13_0_am spends 832 mana
28.24    Player mage_48_13_0_am spell arcane_missles starts ticking
28.77    Spell arcane_missles ticks (1)
28.77    Target Fluffy Pillow suffers 674 arcane damage from mage_48_13_0_am 's arcane_missles
29.21    Player mage_48_13_0_am loses Ashtongue Talisman
29.29    Spell arcane_missles ticks (2)
29.29    Player mage_48_13_0_am gains Lightning Capacitor (1)
29.29    Target Fluffy Pillow suffers 1180 arcane damage from mage_48_13_0_am 's arcane_missles
29.50    Spell searing_totem ticks (12)
29.50    Target Fluffy Pillow suffers 159 fire damage from shaman_41_0_20 's searing_totem
29.55    Player shaman_41_0_20 casts spell lightning_bolt
29.55    Player shaman_41_0_20 spends 297 mana
29.55    Target Fluffy Pillow suffers 1534 nature damage from shaman_41_0_20 's lightning_bolt
29.74    Player shaman_41_0_20 starts casting lightning_bolt 1.40
29.81    Spell arcane_missles ticks (3)
29.81    Player mage_48_13_0_am spell arcane_missles is resisted
30.33    Spell arcane_missles ticks (4)
30.33    Target Fluffy Pillow suffers 674 arcane damage from mage_48_13_0_am 's arcane_missles
30.38    Player mage_48_13_0_am loses Wrath of Cenarius
30.85    Spell arcane_missles ticks (5)
30.85    Player mage_48_13_0_am gains Lightning Capacitor (2)
30.85    Target Fluffy Pillow suffers 1180 arcane damage from mage_48_13_0_am 's arcane_missles
30.85    Player mage_48_13_0_am spell arcane_missles finishes ticking

Note: While I do keep track of all procs, I do not generate another "...gains..." message when MSD or Cenarius refreshes itself before expiration.

CHeeSY-CrAfT · 08/20/07, 12:40 PM

I've been piecing together as "ideal" an item set as I can get in order to maximize the damage potential of straight arcane missiles post-patch. While it is clear that haste does have a dramatic effect on the overall output of the spec, due to the nature of the "chance on hit" items used, it doesn't seem to be the case that every haste item is better than every non-haste item.

For example, in the shoulder slot, it doesn't seem to make sense to use the

[Mantle of Nimble Thought] over say, [Mantle of the Tempest].

Losing the four-piece bonus, in addition to 26 spell damage and 21 spell crit (if socketed with Runed Crimson Spinel) does not seem worth it at all.

In a less extreme case, [Waistwrap of Infinity] vs. [Anetheron's Noose]:

32 spell haste vs. 23 spell damage and 24 spell crit.

Is it really worth it?

Also, Dedmonwakeen, would it be possible for you to run simulations at the extreme end, ie something like 1300 spell damage, 400 spell crit rating, 76 spell hit rating, 100 spell haste rating and the 4-piece Tempest bonus?

manly · 08/20/07, 1:13 PM

If I were to make a guess at the optimum gearset for AM spam build, here's what my first-draft attempt would be:

every socket should be [Runed Crimson Spinel] unless otherwise indicated
[Cowl of the Illidari High Lord] - [Design: Mystical Skyfire Diamond], 1x [Glowing Shadowsong Amethyst]
[The Sun King's Talisman]
[Mantle of the Tempest] - [Power of the Scourge]
[Gloves of the Tempest] - +20dmg
[Robes of the Tempest] - +150hp or +6all stats or mp5
[Leggings of the Tempest] - [Runic Spellthread]
[Cloak of the Illidari Council] - subtlety
[Pattern: Bracers of Nimble Thought] - +15dmg
[Tempest of Chaos] - sunfire
[Chronicle of Dark Secrets]
[Wand of the Forgotten Star]
[Anetheron's Noose]
[Slippers of the Seacaller] - boar's speed
[Ring of Ancient Knowledge] - +12dmg
[Band of the Eternal Sage] - +12dmg
[The Lightning Capacitor]
[Ashtongue Talisman of Insight]

alternatives:
[Leggings of Channeled Elements] while keeping 4pc t6 (ie: headpiece -> t6)
[Cuffs of Devastation] (this is probably a minor upgrade given the 15.7 haste values)

Aldric · 08/20/07, 1:16 PM

Dedmonwakeen, I'm still a bit confused about your results. In the zero haste situation you show an average cast time for AM at 4.8s. However, your average time between Ashtongue procs is 5.8s. This would suggest an uptime of 86% or an average cast time of 4.72s on AM under the old haste conversions. My assumption is that your changes for proc refreshing have made it look like the uptime is much greater than it actually is.

Pretty much what I'm getting at is would it be possible to modify the simulator for mystical skyfire and Ashtongue to report on number of AM casts begun while those buffs are up? Also keep in mind that the buff from mystical skyfire is not consumed by an AM cast (so, roughly speaking, procs occurring on the final missile will apply to 2 AMs).

So far the work looks good and we appreciate the effort

Oh, and one last time, have you switched over to the new haste rating on your simulator?

Edit: Corrected uptime figure from ashtongue on 6 second duration instead of 5

dedmonwakeen · 08/20/07, 1:58 PM

Originally Posted by Aldric

Dedmonwakeen, I'm still a bit confused about your results. In the zero haste situation you show an average cast time for AM at 4.8s. However, your average time between Ashtongue procs is 5.8s. This would suggest an uptime of 86% or an average cast time of 4.72s on AM under the old haste conversions. My assumption is that your changes for proc refreshing have made it look like the uptime is much greater than it actually is.

Hmmm.... Not reporting "refreshes" was pessimistic, but now that I am reporting them it is actually "optimistic". I see your point. I guess it would be much more helpful to simply report the percentage of time the buff is present rather than the average "gap".

Pretty much what I'm getting at is would it be possible to modify the simulator for mystical skyfire and Ashtongue to report on number of AM casts begun while those buffs are up?

I suppose I could add a start_callback() method to the arcane_missle spell_t. It would be cumbersome to track all buffs present for every cast spell, but I can hack something up for just this.

Also keep in mind that the buff from mystical skyfire is not consumed by an AM cast (so, roughly speaking, procs occurring on the final missile will apply to 2 AMs).

Yep, the MSD buff is not consumed by channeled spells in my sim, so it essentially amounts to a 4sec duration buff.

So far the work looks good and we appreciate the effort

I'm happy to help..... but it sure makes me wish I had an Arcane Mage to play with!!!

Oh, and one last time, have you switched over to the new haste rating on your simulator?

I use a conversion rating of 15.8 for all patch levels except patch-2.1.0 which uses 20.8. Is this correct?

I'm having a crisis of confidence and am wondering if I'm even using the "percentage" correctly.

This is what I currently do:

haste_multiplier = 1.0 - ( haste_rating / ( haste_coefficient * 100.0 ) )

where haste_rating is 15.8 for patch 2.2.0

Or is 100% haste really just mean 2x faster? So the formula would look like:

haste_multiplier = 100.0 / ( 100.0 + ( haste_rating / haste_coefficient ) )

Help!

Aldric · 08/20/07, 2:11 PM

Originally Posted by dedmonwakeen

This is what I currently do:

haste_multiplier = 1.0 - ( haste_rating / ( haste_coefficient * 100.0 ) )

where haste_rating is 15.8 for patch 2.2.0

Or is 100% haste really just mean 2x faster? So the formula would look like:

haste_multiplier = 100.0 / ( 100.0 + ( haste_rating / haste_coefficient ) )

Help!

The second one, Roywyn gave a pretty good explanation of it back on post 959. I know I was doing it the same way you were. Makes a pretty big difference too 4.538s AM for method 1 vs the correct 4.577s under method 2.

dedmonwakeen · 08/20/07, 2:16 PM

Originally Posted by Aldric

The second one, Roywyn gave a pretty good explanation of it back on post 959. I know I was doing it the same way you were. Makes a pretty big difference too 4.538s AM for method 1 vs the correct 4.577s under method 2.

Yeah..... I figured I was off-base once I realized what would happen at high levels of haste.

Thanks for the quick confirmation. I'll just edit the previous post momentarily.

Astrylian · 08/20/07, 2:26 PM

Originally Posted by Astrylian

Hey all.
My wife is a deep arcane mage, and we're trying to find ways to improve her damage output in raids. Here's a link to her armory.

The Armory

She's got her mount trinket on there, but it should be Quag's Eye. From reading the last few pages of this thread (I'm a bit confused about what works now, and what will work in 2.2), it sounds like she should switch to a Mystical Skyfire Diamond, and... then I'm lost. Getting a Wrath of Cenarius will only work after 2.2? The Elder Scribes has an internal cooldown, so she should replace that, I guess? She originally was frost, so has full frozen shadoweave, and has been hesitant to respec her tailoring to spellfire, since spellfire doesn't seem to be a whole lot better than what she's got. In terms of progression, we've downed Lurker and Morogrim, and are working on Karathress. Her typical rotation is ABx2-AM-Scorch, or ABx3-AM-Scorch, depending on how mana conservative she wants to be. Can anyone suggest some changes to make to improve her raid damage output?

Can anyone make any suggestions here? Thanks for any help.

Aldric · 08/20/07, 2:44 PM

Originally Posted by Astrylian

Can anyone make any suggestions here? Thanks for any help.

At your current progression level I would suggest against going with the AM spam build come patch time.

She should probably respec to 48/13 or 50/11. After that her first priority should be getting her next piece of T5 (probably the pants of Karathras from your current progression level.) She should also switch from Quags eye to an Icon.

Right now she has fishing gear on so I can't see some of the other pieces, but from her Spellsrike it looks like she's gemming incorrectly, pure yellow gems like the +8 crit are always the wrong way to go and a green gem like the 4 int 2mp5 aren't a good idea either. +9 dmg all the way unless you're going for a set bonus (like her T5 shoulders) where the dps benefits are almost the same (14 dmg 4 crit is worse than 18 dmg) but the gain of stam is a personal preference gain for some.

Levidian · 08/20/07, 3:04 PM

Originally Posted by Mirai

I can't really speak for the mages.

We have an arcane mage in our guild. Top snotch gear ~3 T4 and 2t5, everything else being SSC and TK epics. But that's not the point since almost every damage dealer in our raid is equally equipped.

Well to come to the point: He always ends up on the top of the meters. Cosidering you accept the top to be ~1-5. I might have to add that he's probably the best mage I know. He's playing this class since the dawn of Wow and has never let anyone down when it comes to do serious damage.

resume: Arcane Specc CAN do a lot of damage, if you know how. I might be able to squeez some information out of him, to see what he really does.

2 Pc T5 bonus is one of the keys to high end arcane damage.

Astrylian · 08/20/07, 3:52 PM

Originally Posted by Aldric

At your current progression level I would suggest against going with the AM spam build come patch time.

She should probably respec to 48/13 or 50/11. After that her first priority should be getting her next piece of T5 (probably the pants of Karathras from your current progression level.) She should also switch from Quags eye to an Icon.

Right now she has fishing gear on so I can't see some of the other pieces, but from her Spellsrike it looks like she's gemming incorrectly, pure yellow gems like the +8 crit are always the wrong way to go and a green gem like the 4 int 2mp5 aren't a good idea either. +9 dmg all the way unless you're going for a set bonus (like her T5 shoulders) where the dps benefits are almost the same (14 dmg 4 crit is worse than 18 dmg) but the gain of stam is a personal preference gain for some.

Sorry about that, fixed the fishing gear issue. With 48/13 or 50/11, what spell rotation would be ideal? As for the gems... Yeah, she has a fixation with matching sockets, which I'll try to steer her away from.

Aldric · 08/20/07, 4:27 PM

Originally Posted by Astrylian

Sorry about that, fixed the fishing gear issue. With 48/13 or 50/11, what spell rotation would be ideal? As for the gems... Yeah, she has a fixation with matching sockets, which I'll try to steer her away from.

Same rotation, you just get a slight boost from using pyro as your POM spell instead of fireball as well as the boost from your scorches having the occasional ignite. And there really isn't anything wrong with matching sockets, it just isn't optimal. If she wants to keep matching them use pure red gems in red sockets and orange gems in yellow ones.

Edit: Just looked at the swapped profile and the only other immediate upgrade path would be swapping the int and mana gem for a [Relentless Earthstorm Diamond]. In order of effectiveness for increasing her dps.

Long term
T5 item > New Chestpiece

Short term
Gems > Spec

Astrylian · 08/20/07, 4:38 PM

Wait, I thought she should get a Mystical Skyfire Diamond?

EDIT: How's Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft look?

Aldric · 08/20/07, 4:51 PM

Originally Posted by Astrylian

Wait, I thought she should get a Mystical Skyfire Diamond?

She could after 2.2, but that would require a huge shift in her gemming habits, it doesn't really shine as much if she doesn't have the ashtongue talisman, and the DPM might make it unworkable at that gear level.

My hunch is that for her play style she'd have more fun with ABx3, AM, SC than running a mana intensive AM spam build. She could try both ways, and until Vontre updates his spreadsheet it would take some serious pen and paper math to figure out how well the spec will work out.

Edit: As far as spec I'm more partial to something like Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft pure pve arcane with a little extra survivability from prismatic cloak.

dedmonwakeen · 08/20/07, 5:24 PM

I updated post 981 with the latest changes in the simulator. I also included a sample trace with timestamps.

This update includes the fix to haste modeling -and- I finally remembered to set bugged_skyfire=1 to ensure that channeled spells do not consume the buff.

Astrylian · 08/20/07, 6:34 PM

Thanks for all the help, Aldric!

averly · 08/20/07, 7:24 PM

I could also use some help with optimizing my arcane mage. I have been playing arcane for a few months now and I do love it. I enjoy the burst damage potential. I find it more satisfying to cast AM than fireballs for some reason

I am also willing to accept that I will probably not be topping the meters in our raids until I get a few more pieces of gear. So far our progression seems to be limited by learning the fights rather than pure DPS check so this is ok for the raid as a whole as well.

We have Kara and Gruul on farm. We have downed VR 1x and have 1 night of attempts in on Lurker.

Here is my armory: The Armory

I also have access to the Robe of the Elder Scribes, Ruby Slippers, Trial Fire Leggings nearly 50 badges that I can use to buy the arcane offhand or the helm (thinking helm to play with the 1/2 cast meta gem and for PVP).

I am near/at the front of the line for mage T5 and have been farming illhoof for a while now for the capacitor but he insists on being a punk (hence the magic absorption spec as we don't always have a lock in group).

I am normally top/2nd DPS on any encounter, but in the 5-8th range on total damage. My dps time is around 70%. (I know this is somewhere that I have to work on)

Thanks

Roywyn · 08/20/07, 7:38 PM

I've been toying with the Blizzard spell to see if any of the above ideas can be used to boost the Blizzard AoE.

- Blizzard chainprocs Spellstrike (and Wrath of Cenarius as well I guess).
- Focus (meta gem) can only proc at the start of casting Blizzard. Hasted blizzard is great fun.
- Blizzard can't crit, and I didn't get a single (full) resist during over 9000 damage ticks. So Ashtongue/TLC/4*T5/Mag's procs are useless.
- When not hitting mobs, Spellstrike/DM:Crusade will not proc.

- Something is amiss with clearcasting and Blizzard on the PTR.
Wow Web Stats - 20 minutes Blizzard spam (rank 1 when no focous/clearcast procced), only used mage armour, ended the test with ~4k mana I think.
It's probably being fixed before that PTR goes live.

Seems the best AoE is AE spam with TLC and maybe 4/5 T5 and maybe Wrath of Cenarius? Or is there another gimmick that I missed?

Semm · 08/20/07, 8:09 PM

I'm a bit curious how you are supposed to keep up the mana to spam AM, especially with haste gear. and this is assuming JoW, Shadow priest x1 and resto shaman, even with spamming pots, gems, probably even dark runes. It looks absolutely amazing, and my gear isn't up to snuff for it yet, but I must be missing something here.

manly · 08/20/07, 8:25 PM

The goal is not pure AM spam. The goal is to follow the 2 spell cycle theorem ( [Math] The Two-Cycle Theorem of Spell Selection ). In other words, you do your normal cast rotation (ex: 3x AB, AM, scorch), but then, instead of switching to AB spam at 30-50%- or whenever you feel like you can sustain the mana for AB spam, instead you switch to AM spam. The difference is that AM spam has a far superior DPM to AB spam, so you can begin AM spam far before you begin your AB spam.

The end result is that better DPM = more damage dealt. There is nothing more to it.

This is also the reason why I don't really advocate to go for full spell haste gear, simply because I doubt a lot of fights would be able to sustain AM spam. If you want better DPM, then use crusade/TLC. If you want better DPS, then go for ashtongue/TLC. The rest of the gear can be either a mish/mash of 2pc t5 and t6, or just 4pc t6 if you do plan pure AM spam. There are a lot of options possible. Just keep in mind that nothing forces you to do only AM spam. I have never pretended it was sustenable or realistic. But seeing that I often do 40%+ of AB spam in fights, I can certainly foresee switching to AM spam.