Well, exactly as I admitted earlier in this thread, the fact that MSD proc rate is high makes it a perfect candidate for very very varying DPS based on luck. 27 procs on one teron kill doesn't seem like the average. This is why I hate comparing numbers from the spec since it will tend to give a wide DPS spread across multiple attempts (not to mention, clearcast procs also change numbers quite a bit).

Chain bloodlust would seem very justified in my mind, but I could understand it would piss off the other players :P

EDIT: although you did get ferocious inspiration which do help the numbers.

No, 27 is higher than average. It just helped to make up for my other mistakes/laziness. :p

The average for the number of missiles that I produced is about 20 focus procs. So, I got 7 procs higher than average. Producing an estimated 3.5 extra casts. Generating about 25k extra damage. Which pushed my damage nearly 5% higher than it should have been.

If my damage was 5% lower and I got exactly the average number of focus procs that I should have, mistakes and all, I would have put out about 1812 dps. And I am fairly certain I made about 100 dps worth of mistakes.

You just cant assign an "average" number for focus procs or clearcast procs. For example i got "only" 14 procs which is almost 2x lower than what you got (LUCKY bastard ). Put equaly geared Am spammers in same grp and they can produce diffrent dps ONLY by getting more or less luck with procs

Waiting for wws of someone who got a perfect grp like : sp, ele shaman and 2x BM hunter

P.S
Did you stopcast Am's ?

Question, Does that mean I shouldn't get the haste bracers and belt? And if so, why just have the ring as the only haste piece?

Which 4 pieces of tier 6 would be the best for AM spam? I was thinking helm, shoulders, robes, gloves, with Leggings of Channeled Elements - Items - World of Warcraft. Am I missing anything?

I'm currently wearing T5 4-piece and was wondering when I should break the bonus for haste gear. Right now the only haste piece I have access to is the shoulders. Should I break the bonus if I pick up a few more pieces of haste gear?

Of course eventually I'll move to on T6 4-piece, but that'll be a while since I'm in the DKP hole now.

Sure you can assign an average number of focus procs. 5% proc rate, 6 proc checks per AM, 338 missiles. An average of 20 focus procs is nothing more than simple math. If you get more, you're lucky. If you get less, you're unlucky. If you produced a similar number of missiles to me for your kill, you got about as unlucky as I got lucky and should have seen about a 5% higher overall damage. This is a dice game. That doesn't mean there isn't an average hidden somewhere in there.

Nah I didn't stopcast AM. I don't like the idea of stopcasting channeled spells. And I'm still crossing my fingers hoping that 2.3 will bring this magical latency fix that will answer all of our prayers.

In doubt, ask Vontre's sheet!

I've taken his sheet, modified AM with MSD (in his sheet, AM has 4 casts that can proc MSD, it should be 6 though), plugged in full T6, T5/T6 stuff in the other slots. MSD, TLC, Ashtongue, Arcane spec.
I removed all points from the +hit talent to see how good hit is if I were not capped. It shouldn't affect values too much.

Scenario is full raid buffs, no shaman, molten armour, SP, JoW - just so that you can sustain AM spam.
Toying with the gear switch thingy options, I got the following values for stats:

10 int = 6.9 dmg (MM, crit), 10 spi = 1.1 dmg (imp. DS), 10 crit = 10.7 dmg, 10 hit = 19 dmg (artificially uncapped), 10 haste = 15.2 dmg.

Ignoring hit, we get the following damage equivalents.

Shoulders: Nimble Thought = 119 > Hatefury = 117 > Tempest = 113
Bracers: Focused Mana (full hit) = 91 > Nimble = 90 > Devastation = 70 > Focused Mana (no hit) = 55
Belt: Blasting (full hit) = 149 > Noose = 120 > Infinity = 119 > Blasting (0 hit) = 106
Weapons: Tempest/Chronicle (full hit) = 439 > Zhar'doom = 413 > Tempest/Chronicle (no hit) = 374
Ring: Captured Storms (full hit) = 109 > Knowledge = 99 > Eternity (revered) = 76 > Captured Storms (no hit) = 73


Switching the spec to fire and the trinkets to Crusade/Gul'dan is a 7% DPS loss, by the way.

Also, haste and crit are significantly weaker in any other spec. AM has mediocre +damage scaling, and scales with crit and hit based procs.


Edit:
I also wanted to check what the proc parts are worth in spell damage. I switched out the item in question and added spell power manually, with the gear mentioned above.
Mind you that it the values will most likely be different when your gear scales up or down.

TLC = 158 spell power
Ashtongue = 190 spell power
MSD = 350 spell power.
In the previous version, it was ~550 spell power, not sure what changed. Still a sick amount of damage.

Interesting results, i have one question tho, all the slots for haste gear take away the crit, so equiping more and more haste gear hits crit rating preety bad thus lowering the uptime of Ashtounge...question is how much haste for crit translates into how much uptime loss?

hey guys,
what are you doing when msd or ashtongue proc while channeling non-hasted arcane missiles? wait until the cast is completed or re-cast them immediately?

Wait until the cast completes. Focus lasts 10 seconds. Our effective dpm may be good. But, personally, I'll risk the re-proc. AToI lasts for 5 seconds. Our AMs cast in less than 5 seconds due to haste. That means that any proc will work with the subsequent AM no matter when it procs during the channel. So there's no advantage to recasting in that case.

These numbers surprise me a lot. Isn't that valuation of crit *significantly*(like, 50%?) higher than 10/48/3's valuation?

TLC and Ashtongue make arcane crits *more powerful* than Ignite does? Really?

That haste value is really high, too. I'm not saying they're wrong, but wow, if those numbers are true they completely change gearing expectations for an Arcane Mage.

Which bothers me. Because if MSD gets nerfed, that means you're going to have all sorts of subpar gear.

I got similar numbers (1,04 for crit and 1,56 for haste) using my personal spreadsheet, so yeah, the Lightning Capacitor does wonders for the value of crit.

That's what I've noticed empirically - 50-100 +dmg isn't going to make that much difference.

Napkin math: TLC adds 750 damage to every 3rd crit, i.e. 250 to every crit. Your AM hits for 1k, crits for 1.75k, TLC makes it a 2k crit. So, "TLC + Spell Power" ~= "Ignite" for AM spam.

Also, haste and crit increase Ashtongue uptime, and AM scales just mediocre with spell damage, therefore the inflated crit/haste/damage relations.
It's that skewed not jsut because haste/crit are good, but also because damage is not that good.

Check it yourself with the numbers given in the post:
8 int + 38 haste vs. 24 crit + 35 damage.


Also, I changed Vontre's Sheet again to remove the damage tax. (Also, the +haste was missing on Zhar'doom in Vontre's item list, had to edit it in.)
The following numbers are with a 10% CoE, 13% CoS.

That brought AM spam to 1688 DPS with Ash/TLC, and Fireball spam to 1671 DPS with Gul'dan/Crusade, without haste gear.

Loading up all the haste gear (2*Nimble, Waistwrap, Zhar'doom) pushes AM spam to 1752 DPS, with an average cast time of 3.6 seconds

Using a 13% CoE, Belt of Blasting and 2*Nimble/Zhar'doom, I could push fire to 1762.

With a kit like that (T6 level gear, MSD, Gul'dan/Crusade), the values of stats are as follows for Fireball spam:
10 int = 2.2 dmg. 10 spi = 1.1 dmg, 10 crit = 7.2 dmg, 10 hit = 16.5 dmg, 10 haste = 11 dmg
MSD is ~50 spell power for Fireball spam at that level.

More edit:
Ring of Ancient Knowledge is missing the haste in the sheet.
Also, concerning hit from gear, this is what the current gear of choice when respecting hit rating gives you (mind you that the sheet has a 35 hit rating bonus for 3/5 T6, I probably have an outdated version again).
T6 - 66, head enchant - 14, Belt of Blasting - 23, Skull of Gul'dan - 25, Tempest/Chonicle - 34, that's 12.9% spell hit on good base gear.

Very interesting results. I feel dumbfounded that I was listing gear based on the old 21 haste / %, and didn't think of updating my results.

Furthermore, mantle of nimble thought above hatefury mantle with double +12dmg ? Surprising, to say the least. I never bothered to recheck the stats again of the rage winterchill bracers but I admit upon checking them over, considering the new haste values, they aren't really as attractive as I remembered them to be.

Anyone else find it interesting that crafted spell haste gear beats like the rest ? And that arguably the spellhaste belt is more or less the same as anetheron's noose? And that my suspicion that zhar'doom is quite a bit better than tempest of chaos/chronicles of dark secrets?

I think the number that jumps at me is the bracers. I guess I won't curse as much my lack of luck on rolls on those items anymore.

Yes, open StatLogicLib line #6536 and #6538, enter 10 instead of whatever value was in there.
That's not the clean way of doing this (ie: I am not sure the proper value is 10, I've heard its supposed to be like 9.8333333 or somesuch), but it does get the job done.

Credits to ildon.

EDIT: be aware that if you use WAU, it will constantly bark over that update and try and redownload the 'unpatched' version, reverting back your change. Personally I've removed the user access rights to WAU on that folder so it can't write to it.

The logic is in StatLogic-1.0. Find out the StatLogic-1.0.lua that is used (may be the embedded version, or embedded somewhere else or installed seperatly). Search for the term "[CR_HASTE_SPELL] = " and replace the line with "[CR_HASTE_SPELL] = 10,". That should do it (not tested).

Looks like the info comes from an ace lib called StatLogic-1.0 you might be able to get a new version of that lib from wowace. (It is down for me so I can't check)

edit: Slow

Quick note and a question:
TLC has averaged around 825 damage since I respecced to deep arcane when factoring in the crits and resist etc. wws parse: Cryic - WWS

Q:When TLC procs and crits, does that crit have a chance to proc procs that are based on you critting with spells? Like the t5 4p bonus?

Just to backup what others have already posted: I'm in a guild that is working on our first Kael kill, and only have tailoring + 2pieces of T5, yet when I respecced and resocketed (MSD) for the arcane build, my DPS jumped by around 100. Very pleased with it so far. Best part: I no longer want to kick blizzard in the nuts for putting spirit on everything

Pretty much the best gear set up you can get is Max haste gear + 4 *T6, with TLC, Ashtongue, MSD. Rings to be Band of the Eternal Sage and Ring of Ancient Knowledge with AM spam. The only beauty of Blizzard removing the 10% dmg coef from fire opens up fire as a solid option.

However, myself and a few other arcane mages are planning on staying arcane due to the "fun to play" factor.

The only thing know that will alter this set up is, what will the loot from ZA bring us? More haste gear? Another proc on crit trinket/ring/neck? No one would of expected TLC to be a valid endgame item when it first dropped many months ago.

If crit is so valuable for arc-spec+TLC, would it be worth to put, for example, [Xi'ri's Gift] instead of [Darkmoon Card: Crusade] or is still Crusade the better one ?

(and sorry, spreadsheets gets me confused :/ )