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Old 08/24/07, 9:05 PM   #1081
Faxmonkey
Piston Honda
 
Troll Mage
 
Blackrock
Originally Posted by spiderella View Post
Ok, I clearly am wrong there.

Another trinket that might be interesting in this context is Mark of Defiance - it has a best case 50ish mp/5, and this 'best case' should be much easier to achieve than the best case on Pendant of the Violet Eye (which would need a lot of AM fueled by MSD for its best case?).
Mark of Defiance would be amazing but it does have some sort of hidden cooldown. How long, I have no idea. If it's not that long, it might not be so bad.

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Old 08/24/07, 9:47 PM   #1082
Soul
Don Flamenco
 
Undead Mage
 
Gilneas
Mark of Defiance cooldown is 15 seconds with a 15% proc rate. With some spell haste, you'd probably get procs an average of, what, 20 seconds apart? Which would be about 37.5 mp5 on average.

EDIT: Oh and Pendant of the Violet Eye is on spellcast with a specific prohibition on it proccing on abilities that cost no mana, that is, it appears to trigger based on mana expenditure, not on a spell landing.

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Old 08/25/07, 1:39 AM   #1083
Faxmonkey
Piston Honda
 
Troll Mage
 
Blackrock
Originally Posted by Soul View Post
Mark of Defiance cooldown is 15 seconds with a 15% proc rate. With some spell haste, you'd probably get procs an average of, what, 20 seconds apart? Which would be about 37.5 mp5 on average.

EDIT: Oh and Pendant of the Violet Eye is on spellcast with a specific prohibition on it proccing on abilities that cost no mana, that is, it appears to trigger based on mana expenditure, not on a spell landing.

It's tested and confirmed to stack on each missile. The game isn't making a distinction between on spell cast and on spell hit for arcane missiles (normally the only distinction would be with AoE abilities anyways). Each missile counts as a cast and according to some, the initial cast also counts as a cast meaning 6 "casts" per 5 seconds.

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Old 08/25/07, 3:44 PM   #1084
Patterns...
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Cho'gall
Originally Posted by Soul View Post
Mark of Defiance cooldown is 15 seconds with a 15% proc rate. With some spell haste, you'd probably get procs an average of, what, 20 seconds apart? Which would be about 37.5 mp5 on average.

EDIT: Oh and Pendant of the Violet Eye is on spellcast with a specific prohibition on it proccing on abilities that cost no mana, that is, it appears to trigger based on mana expenditure, not on a spell landing.
Pretty sure the prohibition is on mana-free abilities like changing paladin Auras or casting Find Minerals. Shamans using Totem of the Maelstrom cast (talented) Healing Wave r1 for free (no mana expenditure) and it procs the Pendant.

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Old 08/25/07, 5:53 PM   #1085
Soul
Don Flamenco
 
Undead Mage
 
Gilneas
I stand corrected then. Gotta get me a Violet Eye, clearly...

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Old 08/27/07, 3:46 AM   #1086
Logun
Banned
 
Human Mage
 
Dunemaul
How is the Blade of Wizardry functioning on the PTR with AM spam? Is it on spell hit, if so, is it worth using again?

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Old 08/27/07, 4:20 AM   #1087
Finkum
Don Flamenco
 
Dwarf Paladin
 
Gundrak
Originally Posted by Logun View Post
How is the Blade of Wizardry functioning on the PTR with AM spam? Is it on spell hit, if so, is it worth using again?
I'm not sure if the proc is on-hit, but even if it is, the Blade of Wizardry has a hidden internal cooldown and thus won't synergise particularly well with AM spam (unlike TLC/Ashtongue etc).

If the cooldown is 30 seconds (as listed on wowhead) and it procced the second the internal cooldown expired it would be equivalent to a flat (280 * 6 / 30) = 56 haste rating or 3.6% haste using the new conversion ratio.

My gut feeling is that this wouldn't be worth the +dmg/stats loss from either the Merciless Gladiator or raiding one-handers, but YMMV.

Last edited by Finkum : 08/27/07 at 4:21 AM. Reason: Math

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Old 08/27/07, 9:58 AM   #1088
Walmar
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Die Silberne Hand (EU)
Has anyone information if the procs on Circlet of Arcane Might and Coronet of the Verdant Flame will be affected by each missile in the next patch? Right now they are terrible items.

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Old 08/27/07, 10:06 AM   #1089
Endage
Glass Joe
 
Troll Hunter
 
Sylvanas (EU)
I got the same question for the [Insightful Earthstorm Diamond], would be quite nice to have a ~10% chance of getting 300 mana back every Arcane Missile spell. Just interested

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Old 08/27/07, 11:43 AM   #1090
tedv
Observation: I am awesome
 
tedv's Avatar
 
Goblin Priest
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Endage View Post
I got the same question for the [Insightful Earthstorm Diamond], would be quite nice to have a ~10% chance of getting 300 mana back every Arcane Missile spell. Just interested
You can model this as -150 mana for each Arcane Missiles cast. While nice for longevity, I'm suspicious the extra mana would result in a net DPS increase versus using Mystical Skyfire Diamond.

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Old 08/27/07, 1:26 PM   #1091
Endage
Glass Joe
 
Troll Hunter
 
Sylvanas (EU)
Originally Posted by tedv View Post
You can model this as -150 mana for each Arcane Missiles cast. While nice for longevity, I'm suspicious the extra mana would result in a net DPS increase versus using Mystical Skyfire Diamond.
Extra mana with an Arcane spec should be converted into extra damage ofcourse.
I won't be using [Mystical Skyfire Diamond] when I get my hands on 2 T5 and spec Arcane, in my opinion it only shines with massive procs and haste rating while spamming Arcane Missiles.
If [Insightful Earthstorm Diamond] works the way it should, thus proccing off every missile, I will maybe try it out. There would be quite some chance it procs during a AB-AB-AM-Scorch rotation (9 on spellcast checks).

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Old 08/27/07, 1:49 PM   #1092
manly
Soda Popinski
 
manly's Avatar
 
Troll Mage
 
Mal'Ganis
Ok before this turns into a mess, [Insightful Earthstorm Diamond] is a terrible metagem for like pretty much every possible class.

2% chance per spell cast to restore 300 mana.

Assuming you can get 6 procs per AM (derived from PTR proc rates on MSD), that means a bit below 12% chance to proc 300 mana / AM. Let's be generous and assume 12% proc rate per AM. That means you get, on average 300 * 0.12 = 36 mana / AM.

Under the best case scenario, its not usable. Please let it die.

<Eej> YOU"RE GONNA PULL
<Eej> IF YOU SQUEEZE OFF ANOTHER ARCANE BLAST
<Spectear> You've obviously never played with Manly.
<Spectear> That's hardly a reason to stop DPS.
Very Manly Staff

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Old 08/27/07, 2:40 PM   #1093
tedv
Observation: I am awesome
 
tedv's Avatar
 
Goblin Priest
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by manly View Post
Ok before this turns into a mess, [Insightful Earthstorm Diamond] is a terrible metagem for like pretty much every possible class.

2% chance per spell cast to restore 300 mana.

Assuming you can get 6 procs per AM (derived from PTR proc rates on MSD), that means a bit below 12% chance to proc 300 mana / AM. Let's be generous and assume 12% proc rate per AM. That means you get, on average 300 * 0.12 = 36 mana / AM.

Under the best case scenario, its not usable. Please let it die.
My bad; I thought the poster was quoting a 10% chance as 10% per missile, so 50% per cast. As it's just 2% per missile (10% per cast), then yes, it's downright horrible.

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Old 08/27/07, 4:04 PM   #1094
Zure
Don Flamenco
 
Undead Mage
 
Nathrezim
I can't wrap my head around Blade of Wizardry with an arcane build. Since you can change weapons in combat, and without losing any casting time if you make the swap immediately after you initiate a cast, it is probably a theoretical dps upgrade if you could always swap optimally.

But then you're left with the choice of swapping it in as you cast AM, for the best proc rate chance, at the cost of losing much of the buff if it procs early in the AM cast, or swapping it in during the scorch/AB portion of the rotation and losing a lot of offensive stats during the low proc chance portion of your rotation.

Take for example an ABx2 AM Scorch rotation. There is probably some sweet spot where you can swap it in to get a fairly significant dps gains.

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Old 08/27/07, 7:49 PM   #1095
Faxmonkey
Piston Honda
 
Troll Mage
 
Blackrock
So the test servers just came back up with the patch to make MSD buffs last 10 seconds and I can confirm that the impossible has happened: You can chain 4-5 AM casts off a single MSD proc. It's fairly insane: *BUT* there's a possibillity of a hidden cooldown on the MSD now. I need to get a much larger sample size before I could say that with any certainy and my initial test may have just been unlucky (sample size was small enough that luck could have done it).

I'm going to downrank my AM to rank 3 so i can do a much larger sample size and see if I can confirm chain procs are still alive and kicking.

Edit: Tested and confirmed there is NO hidden cooldown. My intial test was just too small of a sample size. I was chain casting rank 3 AM at double speed for 30 seconds in a row. The DPS on rank 3 spam is up a significant bit becuase of this.

So, long post short, Everything we thought couldnt' happen has happened. MSD lasts 10 seconds and is not consumed by AM, 3-5 casts per MSD proc is possible which can indeed lead to semi-frequent chain proccing. Combined with a lightning capacitor, it is, in a word (or two), absolutely insane.

Last edited by Faxmonkey : 08/27/07 at 7:57 PM.

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