[Mage] How Can Arcane Damage Work? - Page 75

Praanz · 10/02/07, 7:17 PM

Originally Posted by Vulkaire

While JoW is good, your raid is incredibly imbalanced which skews that number somewhat. You only have two melee, and one of them is a shaman which also gets benefit from JoW.

We might be caster-stacked on this night of tries - but still 80 000 mana returned to me is 27 max-hitting Super-pots, nice numbers for any mana-user.

We won't have a full-time JoW on later-phases but the 100% uptime in P1 really puts me in a good seat manawise at the end of P2. I could basically chain-cast from start until 2nd Flame died. When P2 ended I was roughly on 20'ish% mana and and Evocation brought me back topped off. All gems un-used and pot not long from cooling off, ready to rumble.

Vontre · 10/02/07, 7:25 PM

Actually an AP-PoM-Pyro alone could add close to 2% to your overall dps. Not bad for a 3-min cooldown.

Personally I dumped my extra points in ice for icy utility. Like improved blizzard.

Aastarius · 10/02/07, 7:36 PM

I personally got a little fed up with the number of resists I was getting so went 47/11/3. Didn't lose anything in terms of actual dps and the number of resists are now greatly reduced.

Dothorio · 10/02/07, 9:17 PM

There are occasional resists if you PoM pyro as an arcane mage, considering I only use 76 hit rating on my gear.

Then again there are occasional 9100 PoM pyro crits and you forget all about the last one that got partially resisted and only did 800 damage.

Andersnordic · 10/02/07, 9:23 PM

Some ppl are forgetting that with 61/0/0 you still get AP-POM-Fireball.

The more or less insignificant boost with Pyro has to be weighed against talents like:

Prismatic cloak (Passive stamina, which can let you drop stam for for spell damage on your gear).
Improved Blink - Blink will save your life on many fights and you will use it up to 15 times during some encounters (Thats around 4,5k mana saved). If you blink to locations you have 3 more secs of dps time!

Imp. Ampl Magic - All guilds should have a mage with this, not more to say.
Magic Absorption - Excellent in many situations (1 single tick during an encounter is 1-3 extra AB`s.)

Only Imp. Ampl Magic is truly excellent of the above and i agree that the rest are somewhat sub-par to what you would expect of talents. But I still value them higher than the added value of pom Pyro vs pom Fireball.

Vontre · 10/02/07, 9:46 PM

Originally Posted by Andersnordic

Some ppl are forgetting that with 61/0/0 you still get AP-POM-Fireball.

The more or less insignificant boost with Pyro has to be weighed against talents like:

Prismatic cloak (Passive stamina, which can let you drop stam for for spell damage on your gear).
Improved Blink - Blink will save your life on many fights and you will use it up to 15 times during some encounters (Thats around 4,5k mana saved). If you blink to locations you have 3 more secs of dps time!

Imp. Ampl Magic - All guilds should have a mage with this, not more to say.
Magic Absorption - Excellent in many situations (1 single tick during an encounter is 1-3 extra AB`s.)

Only Imp. Ampl Magic is truly excellent of the above and i agree that the rest are somewhat sub-par to what you would expect of talents. But I still value them higher than the added value of pom Pyro vs pom Fireball.

You forgot to mention ignite, which is a big component considering it's trivial to stack an AP->PoM pyro against 30% +crit from a clearcast. Also get a nice boost to fire blast for repositioning.

• Mex · 10/03/07, 12:19 AM

Originally Posted by koetjeka

I'm wondering if [Wrath of Cenarius] would be vailable for AM spam. It has an internal cooldown of 15 seconds I believe. I'm not very good in theory crafting, especially because I don't know when the internal cooldown of the ring starts: at the start of the buff or when the buff ends.

I guess it would be something like:
132 * 2 * 1,45 = 382,8 (damage buff * 2 arcane missiles in 10 seconds)
382,8 / 30 = 12,76 dps (average AM's needed to proc the ring = 4, equals 20 seconds. 20+10 seconds from the buff itself = 30)

If there's a hidden cooldown, then it's less than ~4 seconds. I've seen the buff refresh from ~6 seconds back up to 10, and quite possibly even on consecutive AM ticks.

That being said, I farmed this item last weekend. I love it, but DAMN the farming sucked. I would recommend against it, really. So much is based on luck - I had to do 42 tactical quests (only needed 20 badges) before I got briefing V which I needed for Mark of Cenarius, then I had to kill 8 dukes before I got all four (that was with 2 signets of beckoning too!). I spent several hours just AoE'ing the twilight camps in order to get enough twilight trappings. I spent upwards of 400g on mats for logistics quests, and had to discard several of the ones I had because I simply couldn't find crafters (bandages were the easiest, but mageweave was 5g+ per stack on my server). Yada yada yada.

The short version is, the ring's good, but farming it will take 20+ hours of gameplay, quite a lot of gold, and the help of guildmates (and don't underestimate how reluctant a lot will be to travel to silithus).

Sackobones · 10/03/07, 2:52 AM

I regeared a bit and got the MSD and I am honestly impressed.

My dps was solid. I was playing in and around the rogue we have all night and wws showed me pushing 1080-1180 or so dps all night.

Thats just with teir 5 stuff.

I did mess up on one boss fight and forgot to switch out to mage armor.

With boss fights that jow can stay up I could probably keep on molten.

Impressed. Worth dipping back to 20 g to regem

koetjeka · 10/03/07, 7:32 AM

If there's a hidden cooldown, then it's less than ~4 seconds. I've seen the buff refresh from ~6 seconds back up to 10, and quite possibly even on consecutive AM ticks.

That being said, I farmed this item last weekend. I love it, but DAMN the farming sucked. I would recommend against it, really. So much is based on luck - I had to do 42 tactical quests (only needed 20 badges) before I got briefing V which I needed for Mark of Cenarius, then I had to kill 8 dukes before I got all four (that was with 2 signets of beckoning too!). I spent several hours just AoE'ing the twilight camps in order to get enough twilight trappings. I spent upwards of 400g on mats for logistics quests, and had to discard several of the ones I had because I simply couldn't find crafters (bandages were the easiest, but mageweave was 5g+ per stack on my server). Yada yada yada.

The short version is, the ring's good, but farming it will take 20+ hours of gameplay, quite a lot of gold, and the help of guildmates (and don't underestimate how reluctant a lot will be to travel to silithus).

I've started the farm yesterday and indeed it will take me a long time :-/ Took me 1 hour to get 4 combat badges, but I've farmed far worse things (dwarf and night elf mount while being gnome and pirate suit). I guess in the end it will be worth it.

maxi · 10/03/07, 7:57 AM

A question about lowbie raiding here.

From what i understand so far, Arcane spec is made or broken by procs, and becomes really strong when you get access to a larger amount of proc-generating gear.

However, can it still surpass fire for lower level raiding (kara-gruul-mag)?
Basically, you have access to TLC, Violet Eye pendant and Blade of Wizardry. Will it be enough to put one over 10/48/3 mages, who can get more spell damage in respective slots?

Eusheka · 10/03/07, 8:03 AM

I would say theres only one way to find out, although i would estimate that with that level of gear a Shadow Priest and JoW would be a lot more necessary to get anything out of the spec.

Beska · 10/03/07, 9:16 AM

How is the 4 piece tier 5 for AM spam? Is the [Robes of Tirisfal] worth using over the [Vestments of the Sea-Witch]?

Hidden · 10/03/07, 10:14 AM

Originally Posted by Beska

How is the 4 piece tier 5 for AM spam? Is the [Robes of Tirisfal] worth using over the [Vestments of the Sea-Witch]?

Direct comparison:
+2 Stamina - 20 life can't hurt
+7 Intellect - 105 more mana can't hurt, increased dmg and crit by this is calculated in below
+20 Spirit - gives a pretty significant increase in Mage Armor/Meditation and currently Evocation
-27 Spell Hit Rating - Do you really need this spell hit as Arcane? I don't think so
-10 Spell Crit Rating - The only thing the vestments are clearly better at, but it's only 10 rating
+-0 Spell Damage
+70 Spell Damage after every crit for 6 seconds which is an average of 61.8(6 missiles)-66(8 missiles) with 30% crit

I'd definitely go with t5 as an arcane mage.

Aldric · 10/03/07, 10:50 AM

Originally Posted by Beska

How is the 4 piece tier 5 for AM spam? Is the [Robes of Tirisfal] worth using over the [Vestments of the Sea-Witch]?

If you have the 4 piece tier 5 it's probably worth using until you finish your 4 pieces of T6. I've been using the the 4 piece since the patch, and I've been very satisfied, the uptime is great.

Eusheka · 10/03/07, 11:11 AM

I agree, 4 piece T5 is basically a passive +70 spell damage for AM spamming mages, only runs off when having to reposition for some reason which is awesome.

Vhad · 10/03/07, 12:07 PM

Admittedly I havn't tried using 4 set bonus and MSD since 2.2 but I never found it to be up constantly so as to consider it a passive 70 spell dmg bonus.

Gaspar · 10/03/07, 12:29 PM

I do not have T5, but I do have TLC, MSD in my T4 helm, and the money to respec and regem. I have been 10/48/3 forever. Should I consider going arcane (AM spam) if my guild refuses to put up JoW but is willing to group me with a shadow priest?

My 10/48/3 stats are 1028 fire damage, 32-33%ish crit, and 163 hit.

Our guild is 5/6 SSC and 2/4 TK.

Any help would be appreciated as I detest asking questions on the wow boards.

Tyrian · 10/03/07, 12:30 PM

Wearing 4 piece tier 5 as arcane is a blessing and a curse. On one hand you love how the set perfectly fits your playstyle but on the other cringe at the thought of having to break it up someday

Bodkins · 10/03/07, 1:02 PM

Ive been a lurker for some time now on the boards, but thought i would finally get about to signing up and posting.

Currently I have a deep arcane build, but have points in fire for Pyro, threat reduction and range.

The only spell i really use this for is the occasional Pyroblast on a boss.

I am tempted to drop them and go full arcane - but at the moment we are learning Kael and I wonder if the lack of a spell with a range of 30 yards will render me useless on the Mage Girl (i forget her name :P).

Any one have experiance of this as a full arcane? is it possible to nuke without getting toasted? Otherwise i guess I will have to wait until we have Kael dead and have moved into t6 content...

Cardynal · 10/03/07, 1:34 PM

Arcane is great for Kael. The only disadvantage I saw was on Thal....staying within 30 yards of him is rough at times and involves constant movement.

As far as Cap....I personally stand maybe 10 yards from her.

Cardynal · 10/03/07, 1:36 PM

Originally Posted by Tyrian

Wearing 4 piece tier 5 as arcane is a blessing and a curse. On one hand you love how the set perfectly fits your playstyle but on the other cringe at the thought of having to break it up someday

I plan to break up my t5 set when I get my fourth piece of t6. Until then, you lose +dmg switching to t6.

Beska · 10/03/07, 1:49 PM

I have a few more gear questions.

[The Lightning Capacitor] is a very good trinket choice, but before access to the exalted Ashtounge +haste one, which is superior: [Sextant of Unstable Currents] or [Icon of the Silver Crescent]? I'm going towards the Sexatant because procs seem to work pretty well with AM spam and the high crit rating.

Also, what would a good weapon be? I'm thinking [The Nexus Key] because of the high +crit, but how is [Tempest of Chaos]/[Chronicle of Dark Secrets]? Again I'm leaning towards the Nexus Key because of the high +crit, and the fact that the +hit on the MH/OH will be wasted on an arcane build.

UnholY_Prince · 10/03/07, 1:58 PM

Originally Posted by Beska

Also, what would a good weapon be? I'm thinking [The Nexus Key] because of the high +crit, but how is [Tempest of Chaos]/[Chronicle of Dark Secrets]? Again I'm leaning towards the Nexus Key because of the high +crit, and the fact that the +hit on the MH/OH will be wasted on an arcane build.

No offense but this really should be a no brainer. The Sword/Oh combo has 46 crit rating and 301 Spell Damage as opposed to the Key, you lose 5 crit rating for near 70 spell damage.

Unleash · 10/03/07, 1:59 PM

The one thing I really been contemplating lately is either go with [Tempest of Chaos] or [Zhar'doom, Greatstaff of the Devourer]

My first inclination is get the staff for AM spam builds, but if I ever decide to go back to full fire or deep fire or perhaps they nerf and ruin MSD, i would think a fireball spammer would be better off with the MH/OH combo.

Qbert · 10/03/07, 2:42 PM

Originally Posted by Unleash

The one thing I really been contemplating lately is either go with [Tempest of Chaos] or [Zhar'doom, Greatstaff of the Devourer]

My first inclination is get the staff for AM spam builds, but if I ever decide to go back to full fire or deep fire or perhaps they nerf and ruin MSD, i would think a fireball spammer would be better off with the MH/OH combo.

There's just so much spell hit on other items to worry about it on the staff/OH, I would go with the staff personally because the numbers on the newly buffed spell haste rating are ridiculous. That plus the cool factor of the staff are too much to pass up. Haste rating can pretty much be considered equal to spell hit in value before you are hit-capped ... if you are already hit-capped then it is a no brainer. My calculations put the value of spell haste rating @ about 1.25 spell damage per 1 spell haste.