Pretty much on fights with missle spamming TLC is about 15% of my damage.
In Gorefiend last night the main difference between me and another mage without TLC on the damage meters was the damage my TLC was doing. Was about 45kish ahead.
So it's definatly something to get ahold of but you won't suffer too much.

You prolly just got a lot of lucky crits if that was 15% of your damage. In almost all wws parses I've seen, tlc is about 6%/7% of my damage(or any other arcane mage I've seen a wws from).

For example:
Teron:Amarilia - WWS
Illidan:Amarilia - WWS

Yeh rechecked stats after tonights raid, definatly only like 7-8% lol. must of got real lucky.

Amarilia, give me the Druid who innervated you I don't have any mana problems with Teron with AM spamming, one of the easiest fights there as shadow priest really regens a lot.

Anyway, I re-gemmed everything and re-specced full Arcane / MSD / TLC. Should get Ashtongue trinket in a couple of weeks (just hit revered). The results are awesome. I still use 4piece T5, and it's basically up all the time. I think you should only replace that combo once you have 4piece T6 - basically a free +70 damage.

On static fights and with a good shadow priest, mana isn't an issue at all, just keep spamming and don't even need to evocate. However, on movement fights and perhaps when your Pala can't keep JoW / don't have resto shaman, you will need to use some Super Manas, but that happened in Fire spec as well.

As for a possible "nerf" - why should it be? For the first time in TBC, mage damage with this combo is really in line with other casters - and still behind melee dps damage unless it's a melee unfriendly fight. It's not overpowered. Mages are perhaps too indoctrinated and brainwashed since January now that we're nothing special and living in fear they can nerf us again now that we discovered a new way to keep up with everyone else.

Using the [no channelling] macro on Arcane Missiles is extremely useful, btw, thanks for the tip in one of the posts somewhere!

EDIT:

I might have missed them if they were asked before but I have two important questions:

1) Can anyone post a -definitive- list of best trinkets for this spec? Ashtongue + TLC seem to be the best, but how are Skull of Gul'dan, Crusade card, Icon and all the rest compare? I downloaded that spreadsheet mentioned many of the pages, but some commented on it being inaccurate with Arcane Missiles and MSD.

2) Haste gear. In Arcane spec, how much is it worth it, exactly...point per point? How do the crafted bracers compare to Cuffs of Devastation, for example? And crafted shoulders with T6 shoulders? 1 Haste = x spell damage in Arcane spec /w MSD + TLC? And so on =).

1 haste = about 1.5 spell damage. Apparently 1 crit = about 1 damage. Which is higher than I expected. But I haven't crunched the numbers on that one so I'll just roll with what other people have said.

So that would make the bracers of nimble thought the best available. The waistwrap of infinity barely loses out to anetheron's noose. But for all intents and purposes, they're the same. The mantle of nimble thought isn't bad. But it's probably the worst piece of haste gear because it takes up a set slot and there are better off-set options being that you get only one off-set piece.

While anetheron's belt might be an infinitesmall upgrade over waistwrap of infinity, the DPM gain more than makes up for it. It can come into play if you end up oom. And yes, the bracers just beat everything else.

Deleted.

Assuming TLC doing 7% of your total damage with 95% hit, 1% hit will increase TLC damage by 1.05% and total damage by 0.074% resulting in a gain of around 0.0059% overall damage per hit rating.
Assuming 32% spell crit, 1% crit will increase your TLC procs by 3,125% and average damage per proc by 0,431% and such increasing TLC damage by 3.57% and total damage by 0.25%. 1% crit also increases AM (93% of total damage) by 0.6% damage which increases total damage by 0.5625%. So 1% crit adds 0.8125% total damage and 0.037% overall damage per crit rating.
In this case, 6.26 hit rating would equal around 1 crit rating or around 1 spell damage assuming the above posts are around correct.

That's totally wrong, 14 crit rating gives 1% crit... on level 60. It's around 22 rating per percent crit on level 70.

As far as hit goes, just make sure you get to 6% hit. Other than that, form your gear around 2% increments. Ie, 8%, 10%, 12%. Whatever your gear naturally falls into. But try to get as close to a 2% mark as possible. Then spec around your hit. Like, if you have 10% hit, put 3 points in arcane focus. If you have 8% hit, put 4 points in arcane focus. How much hit you have doesn't matter as long as it's at least 6%. But that's a good way to try to maximize your item points and talent points.

I think he asked how much additional hit helps your TLC damage when you're arcane hit capped only. Look at my answer above for calculations.

Edit: By the way, I got a list of the best arcane damage gear assuming the calculator is correct.
Cowl of the Tempest - Glyph of Power, +6 Spell Damage/+7 Stamina, Mystical Skyfire Diamond
Translucent Spellthread Necklace
Mantle of the Tempest - Greater Inscription of Discipline, 2x +12 Spell Damage
Cloak of the Illidari Council
Robes of the Tempest - Exceptional Stats, 3x +12 Spell Damage
Bracers of Nimble Thought - Spellpower
Gloves of the Tempest - Major Spellpower, +12 Spell Damage
Anetheron's Noose - 2x +12 Spell Damage
Leggings of Channeled Elements - Runic Spellthread, 3x +12 Spelldamage
Slippers of the Seacaller - 2x +12 Spell Damage
2x Ring of Ancient Knowledge - Spellpower
Ashtongue Talisman of Insight
The Lightning Capacitator
Zhar'Doom - Sunfire
Wand of the Forgotten Star

If there's something missing, just tell me.

Yes, I'm aware. I told him don't worry about how much your hit helps TLC and went on to outline how much you should care about hit rating.

Well the whole spec is kind of built around the TLC and MSD and if you run with only 6% hit, you have a 10% missrate for the lightning bolts. So I'd say it's worth worrying about your hit rating in regards to the TLC. Of course it isn't needed for arcane damage but that doesn't mean it's worthless.

Ok guys, here are some wws, I know lots less geared people here has been requesting for results for TK/SSC level between the old ABx3 AM Scorch with 2pcT5 vs AM spam.

A few notes:

1. we don't have a pay wws account, so I can’t go back too far in dates and I try to pick fights that are actually representative, ie. no aoe, or VR.

2. My gears are pretty much identical, except I got the Lurker boots this week, before I was using the boots off moros. I have NO other haste gears. And please forgive me on the gems, I regemmed in a rush after work with limited funding so I could use MSD.

The Armory


Lurker
AB rotation: 922dps Wow Web Stats
915dps Wow Web Stats
AM spam: 841dps Wow Web Stats
(unfortunately I died then got rezed in this fight)


Leo
AB rotation 860dps Wow Web Stats
AM spam 911dps Loading...


Fathom
AM spam 965dps Wow Web Stats

Note that, unfortunately, Spriest/JoW are not guaranteed in our raid. I get the Spriest if there is one in the raid, but not always the case, our token SP is lacking attandence due to RL stuff recently, and a old school SP is trying to make up for attendance after returning to the game. I pressured the healing Pallys to do JoW on the Leo and Fathom fights with me spamming AM, nice results.

The point is, no matter what group make up was, in the above links, I was able to manage to not go OOM to the point where I had to stop casting. So dps results should be eligible to for comparison.


Conclusions:

1. Being in SSC/TK content, with 2pcT5, no other +haste gears, AB rotation and AM spam are more or less the same, even after considering the ramp up time for AB.

2. the new MSD makes switching to arcane viable without 2pcT5. Fire mages should notice a nice dps step up with either rotation.

3. Mana usage is more or less the same. You don’t need a SP as long as you have a shammy and occasional JoW, and chug pots and mana gems. With a SP, you can save some pots. If you don’t have at least a SP or Shammy in your group, don’t bother.


Pros & Cons

AM spam is brainless while the rotation keeps you on the toe a bit but not too bad.
AB spam wins on trash, if that means anything for you.

Questions and Discussions:

1. I personally don’t think even with 4pcT5, AM spam will be definitely better than AB rotation. It’s only when you start to tap in more haste gears, which AB don’t really benefit from as much as AM, the AM spam starts to out shine.


2. of course, I welcome comments and suggestions, from the more experienced players here also people in similar situation as me. Would like to know if there is other room for improvement in the immediate future. One thing I believe dearly is that our guild has pretty low raid wide dps, (8+ mins lurker  ). That’s where is constraining my dps.

I recently re-gemmed to add the MSD to my helm, and I've been pretty much only spamming AM for boss fights. I was curious if this is currently accepted as greater output or less output than the standard AB rotation. Considering that the player has at least 4 piece T5 and TLC with MSD?

read what I just posted

Acutally, I believe switching up the Cowl for the Tempest for the Cowl of the Illidari High Lord and the Leggings of Channeled elements for Leggings of the Tempest gives you roughly a net of +2dps....not that it really matters =)

However you do have the +10 cool factor of the CotIHL.

When using the LC and the Eye of Mag, will the Eye proc off LC resists?

You shouldn't really be using Mag's Eye as a mage imo...but as to your question, I'm not sure. Icon or crusade > Mag's eye for trinkets around that level.

Considering TLC doesn't gain a charge itself off of a crit from TLC bolt...I would think not.

I don't have the eye of mag. But I am going to say no. Since TLC bolts are not technically spells. They're effects. Which is why they work with percent modifiers but not +damage. And why a lightning bolt crit doesn't give you an electrical charge, proc 4/5 T5, proc AToI, etc.

When I checked, the Leggings gave around 10 DPS over T6 and the Cowl only around 4 or 5 but I'll recheck. Edit: Seems you're right, it's 2 DPS better.

Yeahh, didn't check all pre Hyjal/BT items, I'll add it.
New list:
Cowl of the Illidari High Lord - Glyph of Power, +6 Spell Damage/+7 Stamina, Mystical Skyfire Diamond
The Sun King's Talisman
Mantle of the the Tempest - Greater Inscription of Discipline, 2x +12 Spell Damage
Cloak of the Illidari Council
Robes of the Tempest - Exceptional Stats, 3x +12 Spell Damage
Bracers of Nimble Thought - Spellpower
Gloves of the Tempest - Major Spellpower, +12 Spell Damage
Anetheron's Noose - 2x +12 Spell Damage
Leggings of the Tempest - Runic Spellthread, +12 Spelldamage
Slippers of the Seacaller - 2x +12 Spell Damage
2x Ring of Ancient Knowledge - Spellpower
Ashtongue Talisman of Insight
The Lightning Capacitator
Zhar'Doom - Sunfire
Wand of the Forgotten Star

Something to add:
The exalted Band of Eternity doesn't include the proc in the Spreadsheet so it may be better than a Ring of Ancient Knowledge, does anyone have information on this?

To claim that [Bracers of Nimble Thought] is better than [Cuffs of Devastation] is based on the theory that 21 spirit (23 spirit for human), Kings included, is worse than 13,8 spell damage. This is if you convert 1 spell haste = 1,5 spell dmg and 1 crit rating = 1 spell dmg.

Secondly; 1 haste = 1,5 spell, and 1 crit = 1 spell IF you have the capacitor. If you dont then these numbers will be very different.

The value of 1 Spirit is relative to the length of the fight and many other factors (JoW, SP, group members etc.)

Its hard to calculate the exact value of Spirit because it really depends on various factors for various individuals/raid groups. Some say that mana isnt an issue, put on Molten Armor having 100% JoW uptime, others have mana problems. Having one person say that he doesn't need spirit may apply to him but that doesn't make it a rule for all.

In my situation and under my circumstances I value 1 Spirit as the following (Blizz has somewhat the same calculation when creating itembudgets):

2,5 min fight, 1 spi = 0,3-0,5 spell dmg
5 min fight, 1 spi = 0,6-1 spell dmg
7,5 min fight, 1 spi = 1-1,5 spell dmg
10 min fight, 1 spi = 1,5-2 spell dmg

That would make the "Cuffs" better for many ppl, and the Nimble better for other ppl.

In any case, I disagree that 21 spirit (23 spirit for human) is worse than 13,8 spell damage (Highly depending on fight ofc, but on an average fight).

So you shouldn't say that the "Haste bracers" are better than "Cuffs of Devastation". They are somewhat equal and better/worse depending on above factors.

That goes for other items as well which end up low on the calculator list, because the valuation of spirit is incomplete.

I was using Mage Armor, 100% JoW uptime, a 200 MP5 Shadow Priest and the best consumables (not flask) on a 10 minute fight as a baseline. Spirit IS calculated in there correctly and with spirit included the Bracers of Nimble Thought are still 9 DPS better than the Cuffs of Devastation with a +12 Spell Damage gem. You're totally overvalueing spirit there.