I agree that people need to stop hopping on this "AM is a terrible nuke" bandwagon. Emp. AM + Mystical Skyfire + Lightning Capacitor is excellent. And you dont constantly run oom. Don't expect to last forever if you've got spellfire and spellstrike with 0 spirit. If you want to be arcane gear towards it.
If you run with a good shadow priest, any mage spec has more mana at his disposal than he can spend, only the arcane mage can actually turn it into more damage.
I don't care how much sprit T4 has, spellfire is going to own its ass with anything that doesn't deal frost damage. It's just too big of a DPS difference.
Remember fireball gets a LOT more out of crits. Clearcasts affect all spells the same if you're not watching specifically for the clearcast, which by itself will lower your DPS a ton. By the time you've seen the clearcast you should've already hit the button to cast the next spell, so the chance for *any* spell to have arcane potency is the chance for the last spell to have procced a clearcast. The only spell that lets you know you clearcasted before you hit the next spell is AM iteself, but using 2 AMs in a row means you're losing the AB debuff making things even worse as you lose the whole "1.5s cast AB with 2.5s mana cost" benefit.
Since 10/48/3 has more DPM than 33/28 and the regen from arcane meditation is small at the end of the day to make it roughly equal mana efficiency. The rest of your mana pool (evocation etc) is rather equal. Yeah maybe if you swap gear it'll change things a little but try playing with numbers around in the sheets - you need to change stats by a LOT to really see any difference in the relative DPS of different specs.
If a build has same DPM and same DPS, it doesn't matter how long the fight is... Losing range for that is obviuosly not worth it though, but with 2/5 T5 you can choose between a rotation that gives you that to a rotation that burns mana quite faster but does noticeably more DPS. And we all know that the fights where you're left with mana at the end are a lot more common than the fights where you're left dry especially if you use pots/gems/evo proprely. As mana is rarely an issue, comparing pure DPS values is a VERY valueable comparison especially when you don't drop efficiency to the floor and oom in 60s (aka AB spamming or even fireblasting as a part of the rotation).
Besides, with 40/18/3 or the likes (need more than 40 arcane for emp missiles), I don't see how your AM spamming has more DPM than 33/28 or 10/48/3. The extra regen is really not much at all especially not when you're losing master of elements! So you can go and do all the guesses/assumptions for how much mana you will have on the fight and calculate damage done over the fight (which will be way way off every time), or calculate the DPS you can do with each spec while you actually have mana and the difference in damage per mana. Right it doesn't include arcane meditation, but when you already have the same DPM and same DPS there's no reason to really count it. It's not worth the range loss if you can't do higher DPS, and it's very worth it if you can go to a higher DPS lower DPM rotation that still has decent DPM.
On one hand you're saying that in most cases one ends with extra mana and at the same time you're refusing to convert that extra mana into more damage. I don't understand the logic. It's obvious that most total damage will be obtained from a combination of highest dps AB cycle and AB spam and you can't see this from just comparing the dps.
Well, I have tried arcane spec with 2pc T5 (and yes, with a lighting capacitor). Keep in mind I probably have a bias for fire spec. I don't pretend the numbers I will post illustrate what you can do, or anything close to resembling an awesome performance. I have a grand total of 2 days of practice with arcane spec, so you might take the numbers with a grain of salt.
I played 47/14/0, a somewhat 'oddball' spec. I took with 3-4x AB, missiles, scorch rotations in mind, simply because keeping scorch up does suck, and I was looking forward to not have to do it. The spreadsheet difference between AB/fireball and AB/missile/scorch was pretty small, so I compounded the fact that I could avoid totally having to wear +hit gear (more crit) and avoid having to keep scorch up. In retrospective, ininterruptible arcane missile is bunk and totally pointless, I should have had moved the 5 points into fire (probably for master of elements / burning soul). The 14th point in fire spec was the 'toss-away' point, which I put in incinerate because of the planned aforementioned 3-4xAB, missiles, scorch rotation.
Let me begin by saying that every spell I am using is mapped to a stopcasting macro.
Another thing that I did 'mess up' was the meta gem. I put mystical skyfire diamond because my t5 was originally meant as gear for trash mobs for a fire spec, and fire makes better use of mystical skyfire diamond than relentless earthstone diamond. This turned out to be extremely bad for an arcane spec. More often than not it wouldn't do anything (read below for more details), and otherwise, it would be detrimental to the DPM rotation I had set up.
Mystical skyfire diamond, in my experience, was really poor for an arcane spec. The major hurdle is that it procs after you do your stopcasting. Either that, or it procs just as you start casting your (5s) arcane missile, which means it wears off before you're done casting your 5s AM, since the 'focus' buff from skyfire diamond lasts 4 seconds. Regardless, I had a ton of totally wasted skyfire procs because they seem to like proccing when I cast my arcane missile.
I must admit that arcane spec is nuts dps on AOE, much more than I had envisioned. The crit rate on arcane explosion is quite high, but the main highlight is that all those clearcasting procs increase your next arcane explosion to crit +30% chance on all targets, which means an absurd amount of proccing the lightning capacitor. I am not joking when I say my lightning capacitor did 7% of my total damage on a full hyjal clear. Not that trash matters, but that was quite unexpected.
I started speaking with other arcane mage, and I was quite disappointed to learn that those 1400-1500 oddball figures you see require extreme measures, things like double shadow priest, or shadow priest + innervate.
With all this said, I was disappointed on every boss with arcane dps. My damage was flat out worse in almost every single boss, most of it due to range issues (and/or need to spread out). I had originally had a comparison between my fire spec attempts vs arcane mage attempts on bosses. Unfortunately I can't compare them fairly, since my previous hyjal clears I didn't have as much experience on boss, as such, the numbers changed a lot (as was *clearly* evident from the major change on dms by every class -- everyones moved by a lot of spots). And my other WWS was the first day I tried arcane spec in a raid (TK clear + hydross/lurker), and my dps was quite poor. But I can't use those numbers either, for the simple reasons that I can't use Al'ar to compare fire / arcane, I had abysmal luck (as always) on void reavers orbs, then numbers got messed up on astromancer because we had only 4 aoers (yes I topped dms on that one, but that was quite expected as an arcane spec + 4 aoers). Then there is Kael'thas, where killing thaladred was quite a pain. My dps plummetted hard on every boss I tried, and when it did give me better results it was by a very slim margin.
Ah also, I found out that the expected cycle of 3x AB, missile, scorch is simply not realistic for high dps. I don't see a reason to not go 4x AB, missile, scorch under most fights.
I have no plans to ever try arcane spec again. I had expectations of a minimum of 1200 sustained dps on most boss fights. It fell far short on that number. My dps time% took a big drop also. I am not pleased with the results, quite simply. I doubt 4pc t5 will make a noticeable difference.
i wont check archimonde, decursing fucks up dms. Besides abysmal presence%, dps was poor regardless.
Last edited by manly : 07/06/07 at 12:31 PM.
<Eej> YOU"RE GONNA PULL
<Eej> IF YOU SQUEEZE OFF ANOTHER ARCANE BLAST
<Spectear> You've obviously never played with Manly.
<Spectear> That's hardly a reason to stop DPS. Very Manly Staff
I'm kinda assuming AB spam will drain your mana very, very fast. 448.5 mana/second means you'll drain over 8000 mana in 20 seconds, so even though its DPS is huge it just provides a very small % of your DPS on any reasonable length fight. The % of the fight duration in which you can spam AB goes down extremely fast as fight goes longer. Granted it's extra DPS, but probably not enough to justify lower DPS for the rest of the fight and lack of ability to keep up DPS on fights where mana does become an issue to one degree or another.
(this is all with 2/5 T5
3XAB-2Xfireball already increases mana consumption speed by enough for you to not be swimming in mana most likely, compared to 10/48/3, but will also not drain it rediculessly fast. You'll use mana about 35% (roughly estimated number) compared to 10/48/3 and regen a few %s back from arcane meditation, all while doing 8-9% more DPS, which means all those fights where 10/48/3 had a lot of mana left, you'll use it all up pretty much doing some more damage. On fights where mana is an issue you can go to 2XAB-2Xfireball and get back to DPS similar to 10/48/3 with similar mana consumption so other than losing range, DB, and BW you hadn't lost much on the fights where you have to use that rotation (which I think are far from a significant part of the fights).
Without 2/5 T5 the only way AB is ever useful is with spamming it. If you're using 3XAB-2Xfireball you'll do similar DPS to 10/48/3 with much lower DPM and 2XAB-2Xfireball will have just terrible DPS in comparison to 10/48/3. So losing range/BW/DB just so you can AB spam on the minority of the fights just isn't worth it, and as I've already shown there isn't much else that stands for the arcane spec without 2/5 T5. Same explanation about AB spamming can be given for 40+ arcane specs - they buff AB spamming but gimp any other rotation, and AB spamming simply won't be a big enough portion of your DPS the way I see it now. And missiles is too weak, if missiles can do anywhere near the DPS of fireballs show me some solid math as with given gear choices it's pretty clear AM is a gimp spell even when gimping your fire spells to give AM maximum power, and you STILL have to use a gimp scroch (since you hardly have anything in fire compared to the 33/28 build) as well to fill in the 8 seconds of the AB debuff.
To sum it up I still see very very few reasons to spec different from 10/48/3 without 2/5 T5, and very few reasons to spec different from 33/28 if you do have 2/5 T5. The only thing that can break this is AB spamming which is just not viable the way I see it - not enough for it to make a deeper arcane spec a good idea.
Ah also, I found out that the expected cycle of 3x AB, missile, scorch is simply not realistic for high dps. I don't see a reason to not go 4x AB, missile, scorch under most fights.
The whole reason of seperating the 3rd AB from the 1st of the next rotation is to use 1.5s cast AB with 2.5s mana cost as often as possible. If you have the mana, an ABX4 rotation is just as good as AB spamming until you used up that extra mana. The end result is the same, but when you're not sure how much mana you'll need in the fight, it's best to delay the 1.5s ABs to the end of the fight where you unload all the mana you have remaining. At the end if you had mana it didn't really matter if you'd ABX3-... and AB spam at the end or ABX4-... however if you go oom with ABX4 there's no way to get that mana back, while if you save your AB spamming for the end you can always change your mind if you need the mana. That's the main reasoning behind the ABX3 rotations even if you have the mana. It's best to just save your mana-consuming 1.5s cast with 1.5s mana cost ABs for near the end of the fight.
It's best to just save your mana-consuming 1.5s cast with 1.5s mana cost ABs for near the end of the fight.
Good point. But my post was mostly saying that 3x AB, missile, scorch gave me worse dps than 10/48/3. This is what practical experience gave me as result. It also drained my mana much faster. I can see the build doing more damage than fire, but as I said, it requires absurd things like double shadow priest (plus probably shaman), or shadow priest + innervate.
Ideally I would do 3x AB, 2x fireball rotation, but that requires keeping scorch up, which is highly uninteresting. Additionally, it requires you to put back all your +hit gear whereas my 3xab, missiles, scorch rotation does not. This means I can pack the punch on crit gear. Incidentally, if you check spreadsheets, the rotation I described gives slightly worse results than 3xab, 2x fireball, so that is why I went for that.
And please, as I said, I HAVE 2pc T5.
<Eej> YOU"RE GONNA PULL
<Eej> IF YOU SQUEEZE OFF ANOTHER ARCANE BLAST
<Spectear> You've obviously never played with Manly.
<Spectear> That's hardly a reason to stop DPS. Very Manly Staff
This is correct regarding ABx4. In addition if you know from experience that you'll have enough mana for extra AB spam it's best to use AB spam in conjunction with AP and trinket cooldowns.
This is correct regarding ABx4. In addition if you know from experience that you'll have enough mana for extra AB spam it's best to use AB spam in conjunction with AP and trinket cooldowns.
I'm sorry, trinket cooldown? I don't see how it can get any better than crusade+TLC given the rotation I gave.
<Eej> YOU"RE GONNA PULL
<Eej> IF YOU SQUEEZE OFF ANOTHER ARCANE BLAST
<Spectear> You've obviously never played with Manly.
<Spectear> That's hardly a reason to stop DPS. Very Manly Staff
I'm sorry, trinket cooldown? I don't see how it can get any better than crusade+TLC given the rotation I gave.
I've been considering Crusade but I'm a bit uncertain what the uptime would be on more mobile fights. Can you keep the full stack up for more than ~86% of time on most fights? If that's the case then I'll probably invest in it and give it a try.
Fireball is obviously going to get more out of crits, but this is also ignoring the fact that arcane missiles in an AB->Arcane Missiles rotation is going to get a lot more out of clearcast procs and the arcane potency talent.
Putting it in a rotation makes it your debuff reset spell, not your primary nuke. It is a bad spell to be chain casting.
Originally Posted by Jeru
I agree that people need to stop hopping on this "AM is a terrible nuke" bandwagon. Emp. AM + Mystical Skyfire + Lightning Capacitor is excellent. And you dont constantly run oom.
You're not going to beat a fire mage, or even keep up close to them, either. Arcane isn't a one-button-only friendly build.
Also, regarding trinkets: I'll only use LC for fights like Lolarian and Tidewalker for AoE. The trinkets I sit with are Icon for AP+PoM+Trinket nuking every 3 minutes (it's really handy when you get 6k+ chain crits of arcane blast when it happens) and Eye of Magtheridon for the base +dmg buff (I know there would be better, but 54 damage is not something to push away).
You won't smash a fire mage as arcane, if the fire mages are good. Unfortunately, arcane doesnt offer anything to the raid either, unlike fire with Imp Scorch or frost with Winter's Chill. It is fun though, and a good challenge to be competitive.
yes, very much so, as odd as it sounds, the crusade starts stacking (refreshes) as soon as you begin casting arcane missile, not when your missile lands. I don't know why, but that's how it is. Worst case, ice lance is your friend.
I won't lie that its not a perfect trinket for fights with lots of interruptions like archimonde, but under most fight the 'interruptions' are below 10 seconds.
<Eej> YOU"RE GONNA PULL
<Eej> IF YOU SQUEEZE OFF ANOTHER ARCANE BLAST
<Spectear> You've obviously never played with Manly.
<Spectear> That's hardly a reason to stop DPS. Very Manly Staff
Ideally I would do 3x AB, 2x fireball rotation, but that requires keeping scorch up, which is highly uninteresting. Additionally, it requires you to put back all your +hit gear whereas my 3xab, missiles, scorch rotation does not. This means I can pack the punch on crit gear. Incidentally, if you check spreadsheets, the rotation I described gives slightly worse results than 3xab, 2x fireball, so that is why I went for that.
Just because what I said b4, every 4XAB-whatever rotation can be converted to a 3XAB-whatever rotation with AB spamming at the end. So since 3XAB-2Xfireball is better than 3XAB-missiles-scorch then if you do 4XAB or AB spam at the end it doesn't really change the results except the slightly higher AB damage with mind mastery, which isn't enough to make it beat the extra fire DPS from 28 in fire. With 8s between AB rotations fire makes a lot of your DPS if you look at pure fireball spam DPS on the spreadsheet with 33/28. Granted you need to put your +hit gear, but if the result is more DPS then why not? (as AM is less DPS even if you can actually remove the hit gear and put dmg gear in its place).
Clearcasts affect all spells the same if you're not watching specifically for the clearcast, which by itself will lower your DPS a ton. By the time you've seen the clearcast you should've already hit the button to cast the next spell, so the chance for *any* spell to have arcane potency is the chance for the last spell to have procced a clearcast.
If only there were a rotation that allowed you to guarantee that every clearcast went to an arcane missiles... if only...
Oh wait, ABx1 AMx1 guarantees that every single clearcast goes to an AM, and essentially doubles the chance that you get a free AM, and almost triples the effect of the +crit buff from arcane potency on arcane missiles, due to the wonky mechanics of how it applies to channeled spells. Best of all, you don't have to wait in between spells, or cancel a cast if you got a clearcast.
You could also use scorchx1 AMx1, or even fireball, but personally I like the single arcane blast because it gets reduced to a 2.17 second cast for the base mana cost, guarantees an extra regen tick outside of the FSR, and gets you the most DPM. Since extra mana can always be converted into damage later on, maintaining an excellent mana efficient high DPS rotation is one of the keystones of an arcane cast order.
With all this said, I was disappointed on every boss with arcane dps. My damage was flat out worse in almost every single boss, most of it due to range issues (and/or need to spread out).
That is the biggest problem arcane spec mages face, any fight with mobility or any additional tasks like decursing/polymorphing can screw up the rotation leading to reduced dps and the need to move in and out of range of any 40 yard abilities. On learning fights and such, fire is always going to be better. It is easier to obtain good dps with an arcane spec, the more comfortable you are with the given fight.
Also the problem with arcane is regulating the normal dps cycle and the full burn cycle to achieve maximum dps. The optimum cycle is achievable only when you are already know/comfortable with the fight.
As Bearscantank mentioned you can use a single AB/AM rotation too but to do any reasonable amount of dps you need to know when to shift into the full burn mode
AB SPAM.
Last edited by dragnork : 07/06/07 at 1:28 PM.
Reason: Additional posts
Just because what I said b4, every 4XAB-whatever rotation can be converted to a 3XAB-whatever rotation with AB spamming at the end. So since 3XAB-2Xfireball is better than 3XAB-missiles-scorch then if you do 4XAB or AB spam at the end it doesn't really change the results except the slightly higher AB damage with mind mastery, which isn't enough to make it beat the extra fire DPS from 28 in fire. With 8s between AB rotations fire makes a lot of your DPS if you look at pure fireball spam DPS on the spreadsheet with 33/28. Granted you need to put your +hit gear, but if the result is more DPS then why not? (as AM is less DPS even if you can actually remove the hit gear and put dmg gear in its place).
You totally failed to comprehend that the whole point of the build is not having to keep scorch up. Yes, this is considerable on target switches. Any boss with adds. 3x AB, 2x fireball is only good if scorch is up. Since we rarely raid with more than 2 mages, and sometimes just 1, this was a readily apparent bonus. Check spreadsheet, the dps loss from 33/28 3x AB, 2x fireball to 40+/13+/0 3x ab, missile, scorch is rather minimal. I went with the latter because no fireball = all your +hit gear gets converted into crit gear.
Not that it matters really since I'm out of that spec :/
Originally Posted by dragnork
That is the biggest problem arcane spec mages face, any fight with mobility or any additional tasks like decursing/polymorphing can screw up the rotation leading to reduced dps and the need to move in and out of range of any 40 yard abilities.
Oh yes, I can't count the number of times I had like 4 seconds left before my 3 stack AB runs off, then I just got done polymorphing. You're stuck with nothing but sub-optimal choices. You can either AM, which means you won't get your reduced cast time on your next AB, or you can just do something else, like scorch/fireball and take the opportunity to reposition. I would have had been better off if I didn't have to make a choice, since all of them strike me as sub-optimal.
Last edited by manly : 07/06/07 at 1:46 PM.
<Eej> YOU"RE GONNA PULL
<Eej> IF YOU SQUEEZE OFF ANOTHER ARCANE BLAST
<Spectear> You've obviously never played with Manly.
<Spectear> That's hardly a reason to stop DPS. Very Manly Staff
full spellfire,
spellstrike pants
t5 helm (for meta, which mystical turned out to suck, ah well),
t5 shoulders
badge cape
the black stalk
nexus key
karazhan exalted rep ring
hyjal honored rep ring
TLC
crusade
boots of blasting (ideally I would have used something else, but having no other decent options, I was stuck with this)
sun-king talisman
pvp bracers
in short, 5%-ish spell hit (i always raid with an elemental shaman, so that was overkill). not sure about crit and spell dmg, but admitedly decent.
<Eej> YOU"RE GONNA PULL
<Eej> IF YOU SQUEEZE OFF ANOTHER ARCANE BLAST
<Spectear> You've obviously never played with Manly.
<Spectear> That's hardly a reason to stop DPS. Very Manly Staff
One way to go about checking if arcane is viable on a fight is actually testing to see what is the max dps you can get on the fight as deep fire say 1200 dps. If your optimum dps cycle is 1000 and burn cycle is 1500.If the fight is say for 10 minutes, to match the fire mages dps you have to cycle through your optimum rotation for 6 minutes of the fight and burn cycle for 4 minutes.
Assuming the fire mage is not going to have any mana issues, the arcane mage has to make sure will be able to fulfill those requirements in terms of mana/positioning to match the fire mage. This can be extended to multiple rotations with varying dps/dpm and the times required for those can be caclcualted.
For arcane the best way to go about in my opinion is test/obtain your max dps on a burn cycle on Dr.Boom or one of the stationary fights and use that as a baseline to calculate the time you need to spend on mana efficient cycles to obtain a desired dps which might be higher or equal to what a fire mage can output. Then you can look at the mana considerations and see if you can work out a mana efficient cycle which allows you to meet the dps requirements.
P.S. I am not sure if this has been already provided for in the mage calculator, which i believe is more of a single cycle for an entire fight. If so please delete this post.
yes, very much so, as odd as it sounds, the crusade starts stacking (refreshes) as soon as you begin casting arcane missile, not when your missile lands. I don't know why, but that's how it is. Worst case, ice lance is your friend.
I believe Detect Magic will refresh the stack too, if you cast it on a hostile target. I know Mind Vision and Hunter's Mark do.
One way to go about checking if arcane is viable on a fight is actually testing to see what is the max dps you can get on the fight as deep fire say 1200 dps. If your optimum dps cycle is 1000 and burn cycle is 1500.If the fight is say for 10 minutes, to match the fire mages dps you have to cycle through your optimum rotation for 6 minutes of the fight and burn cycle for 4 minutes.
Assuming the fire mage is not going to have any mana issues, the arcane mage has to make sure will be able to fulfill those requirements in terms of mana/positioning to match the fire mage. This can be extended to multiple rotations with varying dps/dpm and the times required for those can be caclcualted.
For arcane the best way to go about in my opinion is test/obtain your max dps on a burn cycle on Dr.Boom or one of the stationary fights and use that as a baseline to calculate the time you need to spend on mana efficient cycles to obtain a desired dps which might be higher or equal to what a fire mage can output. Then you can look at the mana considerations and see if you can work out a mana efficient cycle which allows you to meet the dps requirements.
P.S. I am not sure if this has been already provided for in the mage calculator, which i believe is more of a single cycle for an entire fight. If so please delete this post.
Thanks for this good post. You mention a good point that since arcane mage relies on mana to dps properly, proper timing and proper rotations are key. In order to maximize upon those variables, you need to take into account fight duration.
My assertion was a long elaborated 'oh hey look - stuff that isn't dpsing is messing up my arcane rotations big time'. From my experience, and in addition to the comments the people posted, I conclude that to play an arcane mage properly you need to plan ahead, plan your polymorph, counterspell, movements, decursing so that it times well with your spell rotations. It is not only a matter of planning mana consumption ahead of time. I had totally overlooked that part since, well, nobody has made mention of it before in the forums.
And nobody seems to have made an open statement that the big numbers you see usually are a result of double shadow priest or shadow priest + innervate. Without that, I just don't see the numbers getting there (without luck or something unusual)
There was also nothing that was said about how craptacular mystical skyfire diamond is for an arcane spec. I have a hard time properly explaining how bad it turned out. If you go arcane, for the love of god, do not get that gem.
On a somewhat funny note, in response to your reply, you could 'macro-in' a 6min fight using a g15 keyboard. It would be the ultimate cheese, but from a pure theorycraft standpoint, it would be the best way at it.
Originally Posted by tedv
I believe Detect Magic will refresh the stack too, if you cast it on a hostile target. I know Mind Vision and Hunter's Mark do.
Unfortunately no, it does not. Otherwise I would start every fight with my crusade stacked to 10 It does work with counterspell though, which is not on the global cooldown. But sadly bosses are generally immune to counterspell, in which case it won't refresh your crusade.
Last edited by manly : 07/06/07 at 2:12 PM.
<Eej> YOU"RE GONNA PULL
<Eej> IF YOU SQUEEZE OFF ANOTHER ARCANE BLAST
<Spectear> You've obviously never played with Manly.
<Spectear> That's hardly a reason to stop DPS. Very Manly Staff
I'm going to have to call BS on that, I think everyone who says this has never invested points in empowered arcane missiles. On my alt mage my arcane missiles almost hit for a base of 1k fully raid buffed/debuffed (tested on Dr. Boom since I don't actually raid on that character). That is a base of 1k dps for the mathematically challenged, before factoring in crits.
From Manly's WWS, his Arcane Missiles were hitting in the 800s. I am very interested in how you could get yours to hit for 1K base. Could you list the base +dmg and buffs/debuffs used.
From Manly's WWS, his Arcane Missiles were hitting in the 800s. I am very interested in how you could get yours to hit for 1K base. Could you list the base +dmg and buffs/debuffs used.
I seem to get a consistent 825-850 non-crit per arcane missile. Those numbers are on a fully debuffed target (maybe not improved cos though + misery). I don't use DPS consumables.
Maybe he counts 1000 dmg per volley on average, with crits counted in.
EDIT: I had flask + wizard oil on archimonde. no +23dmg food though. My average was 890 dmg per volley.
Last edited by manly : 07/06/07 at 2:24 PM.
<Eej> YOU"RE GONNA PULL
<Eej> IF YOU SQUEEZE OFF ANOTHER ARCANE BLAST
<Spectear> You've obviously never played with Manly.
<Spectear> That's hardly a reason to stop DPS. Very Manly Staff
07/06/07, 11:33 AM
Similar Threads
