During that attempt, I was spamming AM for both phase 1 and phase 2. It may have been a fluke (e.g. him getting more AOE off on the ghosts). We were more focused on the boss than meters, so they weren't getting reset in between phases.
Get recount and it will reset for you automatically when you drop combat just before engaging essence of suffering.
Back to the "is my gear good enough for AM spam" discussion for a moment:
We are a guild that is just starting to get into SSC (cleared through Lurker so far, working on Leo/Al'ar at the moment). One of our mages recently decided to switch from frost to arcane (you can see his profile here), so we had a nice opportunity to compare his damage against our two excellent and equally geared fire mages last night (profiles here and here).
Over the course of Hydross, Lurker, trash, and Leo attempts, the arcane mage put out around 1085 dps (based on my recount, the WWS is unfortunately not up yet), while the two fire mages averaged around 900. Knowing the mages (and being one of the fire ones), I can be fairly confident that the difference is not really due to player ability or lag. Needless to say, a number of us are seriously considering following his lead...
Granted, this is just an anecdote, and there may be fight-specific characteristics that skew this result. Still, I was impressed by the potential AM dps at his gear level.
To be honest, I don't think fire can compete with AM spam come 2.3. Something that hasn't been mentioned yet is how to make the best use of AM spam spec, and I think we really haven't put enough thought on it. I believe the current spec really pushes solid dps numbers, but it occured to me, after the raid, that the dps could be considerably improved upon.
For instance, assuming you have spare mana at the end of the fight, why not just cancel your current AM if it has neither clearcasting (either as buff or when cast) nor focus, you can recast a new AM if you get a focus proc in the middle of the cast. I cannot see a reason not to do it, other than mana concerns, which really isn't a concern if you have JOW up. It might seem 'small' said like that, but it could very well mean an extra 50-100 dps. Of course, you would have to time correctly your new AM so that it happens right after a tick while taking into account lag (quartz could be modded to display the lag bar at every tick of AM starting from the 2nd).
I will give it a shot tomorrow.
Serious attempt at topping meter with AM spec
rage - 1850 dps - (shadow priest death + forgot 2nd AP) - Wow Web Stats
anetheron - 1625 dps - (was on add duty without cos for the most part) - Loading...
kaz'rogal - 1650 dps - Wow Web Stats
azgalor - 1350 dps - (partial sr gear) Loading...
naj'entus - 1600 dps - Wow Web Stats
supremus - 1300 dps - (misleading numbers; we aggroed a pack midfight...) Loading...
teron - 1700 dps without COS - got sacrificed on both attempts, neither of which had COS
<Eej> YOU"RE GONNA PULL
<Eej> IF YOU SQUEEZE OFF ANOTHER ARCANE BLAST
<Spectear> You've obviously never played with Manly.
<Spectear> That's hardly a reason to stop DPS. Very Manly Staff
For instance, assuming you have spare mana at the end of the fight, why not just cancel your current AM if it has neither clearcasting (either as buff or when cast) nor focus, you can recast a new AM if you get a focus proc in the middle of the cast. I cannot see a reason not to do it, other than mana concerns, which really isn't a concern if you have JOW up. It might seem 'small' said like that, but it could very well mean an extra 50-100 dps. Of course, you would have to time correctly your new AM so that it happens right after a tick while taking into account lag (quartz could be modded to display the lag bar at every tick of AM starting from the 2nd).
ya, this is what i do for essence of anger, and it is a significant DPS boost, and since AM spammers have no mana dump via AB spam (once u are out of T5 since AM dps > than AB spam when geared correctly) it is a great way to get rid of that extra mana. Only problem like manly said will be getting the timing down, and making sure you don't start dumping it too early and run out of mana before the fight ends.
Wow Web Stats - This is our first Illidan-downing. Owning it up on the last attempt of the evening, pretty exciting kill as it was our first time into P5 but everyone owned it up.
It's been said before - JoW is heaven sent and I wanted to post another reference that might help convincing other guilds paladins. All mages are AM-spamming, we've got JoW thru the entire P1, pretty often in P2 and occasional in the rest phases.
By the way - using the mana-dump Manly described is really awesome. Something I tend to do on RoS and trash alot - but can also get expensive fast when "DPS-whoring" too much.
I have read through most of the posts in this thread but still want to verify that I have gotten it right.
I use spellstrike/spellfire set, have 1093+ damage, 158 hit rating, ~26% critt.
My specc is 10/48/3.
Im currentley applying for a SSC/TK guild
My plan is basicly to pick up 2 parts of t5 and respec arcane.
Will then remove +hit sockets/enchants for +damage ones
After that I will aim for T5 head so I can get a MSD socket in there
If i get it right with 2x t5 the best way to go with spells is to mana dump with AB early in the fight, use evocation, AM spam, AB mana dump at the end om fight?
Im currentley using Quags eye and icon of the silver cresent. Is it worth going back to Karazhan to farm TLC? Is it really that good?
Im currentley using Quags eye and icon of the silver cresent. Is it worth going back to Karazhan to farm TLC? Is it really that good?
Well, there're precious few other trinkets which will make up 5-8% of your total damage dealt... though obviously it's a ghastly crapshoot getting it to drop.
Also see most of your specs include slow, do you use that in PVE?
It's just one point for a talent that has its uses. Not that much in raids but rather when soloing. It's not necessary to spec it though it doesn't really hurt either.
OK, I will hunt TLC when given the chance then, might aswell try and get the T4 head (wich I passed on serveral times...) to get the meta socket. If I get into the guild Im guessing the T5 head will take a while since almost no one have it yet.
So, I've been looking for some calculations on the value of JoW for AM spammers (primarily to show my own guilds paladins, to make them judge the damn thing!). Problem is, I suck majorly at math (good thing I study economics, eh?). Anyway, here's what I come up with. I've been trying to add some rough values for mp5 change as you get +haste, obviously it scales. I'm not smart enough to calculate the whole thing into a "total mp5 of JoW, given X haste".
If anyone has some other numbers (maybe even correct ones :p - please post them!)
JoW effect: 50% chance per spellhit of 74 mana
AM hits: 5
Average mana gain of JoW on one AM: 5 * 0.5 * 74 = 185
AM cost (with emp.): 784
Base cast time: 5 sec
Mana gain in % from JoW with AM spam: 185/784 = 23,6%
With 0 haste, JoW is worth:
AM cast time with 100 haste (6,3694% increase): 5 - 5 * 0,06369 = 4,68155
AM cast time with 200 haste (12.7388% increase): 5 - 5 * 0,12738 = 4,3631
AM cast time with 300 haste (19,1082% increase): 5 - 5 * 0,19108 = 4,0446
That's pretty much right although for your future theory crafting take note that you're calculating haste percentages incorrectly. 100% haste is actually half cast time, where as you have it 100% would be zero cast time. When going per point of haste the difference isn't huge, but for larger chunks it is quite substantial.
Cast Time = Base * 100 / (100 + haste / 15.7)
So your per point value would be 0.006365
For 100 haste that's the difference between 94.01% cast time vs your 93.63% cast time.
Last night a fellow arcane mage reported her damage meter picked up a Lightning Bolt cast by her (which I assumed to be from her TLC) as a 2341 crit on Fathom lord Karathress. We boggled endlessly at the bizzare number and the only thing we could come up with is a parsing error: Perhaps the meter wrongly recorded an elemental shaman's lightning bolt crit at a 25% partial resist (as this value seems more consistant with his regular output).
Other than a possible parsing error has anyone else registered anything similar on their damage meters? I believe she was using the latest version of Recap but I'm not adamant on that.
Even if it were, that's only +20%, implying it would've hit for around 1950 otherwise, which still sounds distinctly on the high side for the Capacitor!
As much as I'd love to say I've seen my own capacitor hit that hard - no, that does seem odd.
even so, stormstrike, misery and whatever other sensitivity can't account for such an increase. I'm at work currently but off the top of my head I've never had a TLC crit for over 1400.
edit: capacitor max damage from tooltip is 806, it's crit multiplier is 1.5, so max normal crit would be 1209. Call it 20% stormstrike, 5% misery making it 1511. Still two thirds of 2300.
Perhaps something along the lines of, spell power and arcane instability affecting it, so
the following multipliers:
1.05 (misery)
1.03 (arcane instability)
1.20 (stormstirke)
1.30 (arcane power)
1.75 (crit)
~2.95
2341/2.95 = 793.6 damage
More haste would help - unfortunately it isn't possible to wear more haste; I am already wearing them all.
I use hatefury on trash for better DPM and I just got the anetheron's noose. I haven't checked the math and as such don't really know which combo is best, but I do expect anetheron/mantle of nimble thought to be the better combo for my current gear. Thing is, you don't want to err too much on the spellhaste side and neglect your spelldamage (hatefury/anetheron's noose is a tremendous +dmg/crit gain over haste alternatives), and neither you want too few spellhaste. From a pure theorycraft perspective you want the most possible spellhaste, but that's using the assumption that every piece of gear is created equally. Since things aren't that way my first-order guess would be to use anetheron's belt because it is just that awesome, and possibly mantle of nimble thoughts (or hatefury, i expect almost identical dps from both) to not go too low on the spellhaste side.
<Eej> YOU"RE GONNA PULL
<Eej> IF YOU SQUEEZE OFF ANOTHER ARCANE BLAST
<Spectear> You've obviously never played with Manly.
<Spectear> That's hardly a reason to stop DPS. Very Manly Staff
Perhaps something along the lines of, spell power and arcane instability affecting it, so
the following multipliers:
1.05 (misery)
1.03 (arcane instability)
1.20 (stormstirke)
1.30 (arcane power)
1.75 (crit)
~2.95
2341/2.95 = 793.6 damage
Firstly, TLC is not affected either by damage modiefiers such as Arcane Instability, nor is it affected by critical modifiers like Spell Power. The only thing that modifies it is Shaman talents that modifiy Lightning Critical Hit chance. (willing to be corrected on said fact)
Also, risking sounding like a fool here, I'd wager damage increase modifiers are not multiplicative but additive. So a 10% increase and another 10% increase results in 120%, not 121%. If this were not the case 33.28.0 scorch hybrid would blow us all away. The only effects that are calculated after all other effects are resilience and that funky meta that increases crit size by 3%.
Hi folks, I'm the one who had the odd LC crit. As Pint mentioned, I'd really just like to know what's going on, a parsing error seems plausible, but recount is usually very good at assigning things correctly. Here are my Lightning Bolt stats from two Karathress tries:
I'm quite sure that TLC is affected by Arcane Instability, your spellhit and your crit rating, everything else would be odd given all the WWS data out there.
All of our mages have been doing the AM spam for the last couple weeks. Overall we have been seeing an average dps of around 14-1500 with some much higher due to proc rates. Of the 3 mages, one had 4pc. t6 and no TLC, and the other two had a TLC but no 4pc t6(both got the 4th pc last night). The damage range has been fairly even between us. The one who finishes ahead is usually the one with the most focus procs. Can't wait to try it with both the 4pc t6 and TLC.
Relying on the procs for damage can be somewhat annoying, but, even with low procs, the DPS is still decent. On Teron last week one mage had 18 procs and I had 8. Needless to say, he smoked me on damage. The same can be seen on this Winterchill WWS posted by Manly. Manly had 15 focus procs. Ishaxa and Stion each had 7.
10/09/07, 5:18 PM
Similar Threads
