marloz

I believe CoA is ~170ish dps for a warlock with 1500sp and CoE for 2 mages (equally geared and Malediction) is 300ish dps. Ofcourse this will depend on crit and if you're fire or frost. Don't quote me on it, though.

 

Pintofbrew

1) You signed an agreement when you registered to EJ forums, including you wouldn't Sign posts, and you have.

2) In that same agreement it also said you wouldn't ask a question that has been asked many times in the forum, and you have.

3) The correct place to post this question is http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t16781-mage_help_me_please/ as indicated by the title.

4) Concept of AM spam? How simpler can it get? Press AM. When it's over, press it again. Repeat till boss is dead. If you're that way inclined, finish boss off with AB spam, though it's debateable whether or not that's an improvement. Multiple procs and per-hit mechnacis make AM spam work. Come 2.3 it won't. Simple as that tbh.

 

Sancus

Even though this post is bad for the reasons posted just above, I'll point out the most obvious problem I see in those WWS parses, and the answer is not your spec or your gear, it's you.

For some reason you have significantly lower DPS time than the other mage in almost all the fights, what this means is that you are spending less time casting than he is. It's impossible to tell WHY this is the case, but either you have a lot of latency, or you are not focusing as much on dpsing and minimizing your time spent running around out of aoe effects etc. Or maybe you're just lax about chain casting as much as physically possible.

Only you can answer why, but that is what's wrong. The worst example is on Azgalor, where you only spent 69% of the fight dpsing. The other mage spent 82%, which is why he beat you even though your actual dps was higher.

It's surprising, but there is often a lot of mileage between a mage who strongly focuses on minimizing the amount of wasted time, things like running the minimum distance to get out of an aoe and then restarting casting right away, switching to an add while in midcast and then letting your next cast hit the add rather than wasting time stopping dps altogether, etc.

Basically, time you are not casting = time you are wasting.

<Vontre> I removed the cooldown on evo
<sancus> and what happened?
<Vontre> DPS went down rofl

 

angmew

As one of the responses above said, the MSD is going to get its nerf mostly for its PvP usage and how this greatly affects Arena matches (Half time rezz, etc...).

But my point saying this is that based in the last couple of patches, Blizzard has the tendency of do its changes mostly based in PvP (specifically arena) perspective, thats why the simple idea of merging the two curses seems to be out of perspective in eyes of the devs, this would indeed be a "comfortable but not necessary" buff for PvE but not as good as the buff the warlocks will get out of these.

We dont want Blizzard's headquarters get burned down by angry PvPvers.

(Sorry for the grammar. Spanish speaker

 

galzohar

I thought warlocks in arenas use CoEx or at least CoA...

 

Pintofbrew

I also fail to see how the MSD nerf affects arena in any way whatsoever. Barring the AM abuse, which correct me if I'm wrong but was never done in any arena above 1400 rating, the nerfed and un-nerfed MSD are hardly different at all. To be honest, if I was aiming to proc a Focus off MSD to get a 5sec rez I'd much rather it was in it's 2.3 state of "once the CD is up, it'll proc within 10sec of spam" than the current "gl finding a proc the next 20 casts or so".

 

perages

So with the MSD nurf, & the TLC nurf, can arcane even be considered a viable raid spec?

 

aliengrey

deleted reply

 

◊ manly

I think this thread is now officially dead.

Log on with different model:
1- Create a character of the desired model. Log on/off.
2- At character selection screen, select your actual character; mouseover the new, desired model character, and hold down left click; hit enter and release left click at the same time.
bug Arcane Potency only applies to the first Arcane Missile bolt.

 

Kikler

How do you use AP cd?1)Right after you have some aggro gap enough to nuke all out with it 2)wait for a focus proc then go AM all the way till last sec where you use pom/pyro 3) Do you use pom pyro on a CC even if it's in the midle of the 15secs?Whats the best choice ?Sorry for bad my english

 

Pintofbrew

1) You ask this as though you had the option of not waiting for an aggro margin?
2) Yes, waiting for a Focus is optimal but in 2.3 will be more or less a lost cause. Getting one focus proc per AP in exchange for waiting up to an estimated 20-30sec worth of AP cooldown time wasted is perhaps a bit pointless.
3) Manly has proven Pyro on CC is optimal, no matter what point in the cycle.
4) Save AP for Bloodlust if you know when you're getting it.

5) Ignore all this advice and spec fire or frost in 2.3.

 

diskape

• Lightning Capacitor: This item now has a 2.5 second cooldown on acquiring Electrical Charges.

Nail in the coffin.

 

Sancus

I think the thing that I will miss most about Arcane spec is actually standing a chance in outdoor pvp during dailies, etc. My god is Fire terrible for PvP. I respecced just to get back into habit, and ... my god. Fire is so unbelievably gimp it makes me cry. Dragon's Breath is terrible.

<Vontre> I removed the cooldown on evo
<sancus> and what happened?
<Vontre> DPS went down rofl

 

Phylenn

I've recently gone to a deep arcane, and so far im happy with my DPS output, but the thing is on most fights im pulling 950-1050dps, im wondering why im normally between 10-6 on the meter. i have 2 piece t5, i use a ABx2 AM scorch rotation.

I'm just wondering if im doing anything wrong.

 

Gaspar

Everything. Rotations are of yesteryear. Try to keep up. Also, go back to deep fire.

 

Alvira

Reposting in this thread (which I thought was dead).

Patch is coming out on 13th Nov.

With it, TLC and mystical skyfire diamond will be nerfed. Arcane missiles spam might no longer be viable, definitley no longer as powerful. But arcane gets increased mana because arcane meditation is now 30 instead of 15%.

Fire spec gets mage tax removed from imroved fireball.

The one thing in arcane not nerfed though is the T5 set bonus. So, the arcane blast spam of old with arcane rotations would still work. They are even giving us back our crit damage gem now properly designed for castors.

chaotic skyfire diamond.
+12 spell crit & 3% increased crit damage.

So, I was thinking, with all these changes, perhaps the people who don't want to go back to deep fire. Perhaps a hybrid deep arcane/fire spec (40/18/3) can now be considered? Use ABX3, scorch, FBx2 rotations. Then spam AB towards the end, or with AP mid way before evocating.

The spec needs a high amount of hit rating though. And won't go as well with the new haste gear being introduced in next patch.

The other alternative, is the stick with AM, but get all the best haste gear possible from Mt hyjal/BT, and the new haste gear coming out.

What do you all think? So, perhaps rotations including fireball might now come to the fore? Let's not forget that before AM spam became popular, AB rotations and AB spam were what started raiding mages on arcane in the first place.

 

Vulkaire

The only thing arcane will have going for it is not relying on CoE. CoS will always be up and arcane might be able to compete with fire w/o CoE. However, even with the buffed Arc Meditation you will still be heavily reliant on having a Shadow Priest. I for one am looking forward to being less dependent on group composition. Getting locks to use CoE, not so much.

 

Alvira

15% more mana regen could result in a fair amount of mana returned. And we don't have to spam AB as much if a rotation involving AB and Fireball is competitive in terms of dmg. (Since fireball mage tax getting removed).

An improved fireball cast by a deep arcane spec can hit quite hard with scorch up. It will have mind mastery, arcane instability and spellpower boosting its damage.

 

Baruk

However, none of these goodies boosts fireball like Firepower / Playing w Fire / Molten Fury...

Per Aspera ad Astra

 

Alvira

Yeah, but arcane is not looking to outdps fire during rotations. As long as it is close. Because arcane can use arcane powered AB spam, plus AB spam at certain intervals to move up in DPS.

This is how the arcane builds of old have worked (before AM spam became popular). And since T5 set bonus is not nerfed, this strategy still holds true.

 

Mulgero

Yes but that's about par with co-efficiency nerf which will be removed next week in patch 2.3

 

Pintofbrew

Has nobody in this thread been paying any attention to [Mage] TC after 2.3 at all? Arcane is dead gentlemen. No amount of stacking gimmick effects will resurect it (Thank god WoW isn't a gimmick-effect fest like Diablo2LOD), no way can you make any "but you can AP-AB-T5" type statement that will surpass simulated fire output. Any amount of time with any simulator will bring to you the painful facts:

1)Arcane is merely better than Frost with 0% elemental time.

2) Fire is signifficantly better than arcane, with better DPM, DPS and fewer dependencies in every department, from flame-cap/destro-pot/Combustion/double-dip/CSD-meta/Molten-Fury to not needing any s-priest support or JoW, barring the 3% from the maledicted CoS/CoE.

3) If pet survives, frost runs a close seccond. With unusual time-constraints (which allow cold snap exploitation) frost, under (mostly theoretical) scenaria, surpasses fire.

4) Theorizing that spamming AB will increase you to acceptable levels is speculation which has been proved untrue, even neglecting the punishing manacost. Unless you're onto some magic trick that allows you 75% AB spam time, fireball will simply melt your legs off. AB is a badly designed, badly implemented spell with lacking vision... Haste, Bloodlust and MSD only hinder it, each one costing precious small fractions of benefit lost. When plus/minus 5% DPS is the difference between excelence and mediocrity then losing little snipets everywhere doesn't help arcane's dying woes.

4) Arcane, if Theorycrafting and performance are your driving forces, is to most intents and purposes, dead. Unless you submit evidence to the contrary, making one-line statements about how it's fine is a waste of space.

Manly said it a few posts above. This thread is dead. The thread posts a question: How Can Arcane Damage Work?

The answer is simple:

It Can't.

 

galzohar

I'm still getting the 40/18/3 ABX3-fireballX2 doing slightly (1580 VS 1500) more DPS than pure fireball spamming, however remember this difference is much smaller than pre-2.3 while keeping the same mana inefficiency at ~36% more DPM using fireball spamming. So you will need at least about that amount of extra mana just to do superior DPS, while also needing to keep those rotations going with near-0 fail rate which is almost impossible in multiple fights, not to mention the lesser range.

People were already complaining about the 40/18/3 disadvantages over 10/48/3 even in 2.1/2.2 where 40/18/3 would do noticeably more DPS (although still for more mana), so with 10/48/3 getting buffed I see even less of a reason to spec 40/18/3, unless, like said above, you have rediculess amounts of spare mana.

As for the arcane missiles, it died as fast as it came up.

 

Anasztaizia

I think it's probably worth noting that ramping up AB is likely worse than than the theorycraft predicts due to the delay in the AB defbuff updating after each AB. I'm not aware of any of the calculators allowing for AB debuff problems.

[mage] Arcane Blast-mechanic seriously broken?!

 

◊ manly

Using top end gear, 1.5s AB spam is roughly 2k DPS counting 13% COS and all gimmicks (but not AP obviously).
Using top end gear, fireball spam is roughly 1850-1875 dps using 10% COE.

You need to do an extremely absurd amount of AB spam to get close to fire dps. We're talking here 80%+ 1.5s AB spam just to have on-par dps with fire.

And now keep in mind, AB spam cannot use bloodlust as efficiently as fire can (in the sense that AB rotations during bloodlust isn't that efficient). This will definately not help.

I don't know about you, but I am pretty sure I am totally unable to AB spam for 2 min even using everything under the sun to make it possible. More like 1:30.

Log on with different model:
1- Create a character of the desired model. Log on/off.
2- At character selection screen, select your actual character; mouseover the new, desired model character, and hold down left click; hit enter and release left click at the same time.
bug Arcane Potency only applies to the first Arcane Missile bolt.