just tried this on talon king ikiss (heroic) wearing clefthoof, earthwarden, and shapeshifters signet, I still got parried. Once. but it happened.
I'm a bit confused now, to be honest - if combat skill is defense in reverse, it should not eat away as much of ikiss's mitigation as it in fact appeared to - but if the blue post is accurate, that parry really should not have happened.
If anyone is interested in testing the value of +feral, using Reth'hedron the L73 demon in Nagrand could provide a lot of data. He's just your average elite world mob, no fancy stats, so a bear and a healer could easily beat on him for a while to gather data, running away to reset him (wowhead reports 30k health). Getting some solid numbers on the effect of +feral would be very nice so we can properly assess the value of this stat (and indirectly, +weapon which still seems like a mystery to many people in its 2.0 form).
I may scrape up a volunteer to help me get some numbers today, but the more data the better.
just tried this on talon king ikiss (heroic) wearing clefthoof, earthwarden, and shapeshifters signet, I still got parried. Once. but it happened.
I'm a bit confused now, to be honest - if combat skill is defense in reverse, it should not eat away as much of ikiss's mitigation as it in fact appeared to - but if the blue post is accurate, that parry really should not have happened.
/sigh.
Haven't we seen screenshots of people being crit despsite having 5.6% anticrit and hunters missing dspite having 11% hit? It appears that you can never 100% eliminate something, and seeing one parry on one attempt doesn't disprove the blue post.
Following the above tangent on Cat DPS gear, I haven't yet heard anyone mention the crafted Braided Eternium Chain.
I haven't made one to test it yet, but assuming the following:
1) The +5 Weapon Damage applies to cat form just like Might of Cenarius did.
2) The +Hit is relevant to you.
3) You are only wearing it while you can activate the +Crit.
is this not the best cat DPS neck in the game by a considerable margin? That's before you even consider the additional DPS that might be gained by any other group members.
Based on Emmerald's spreadsheets, without activating the ability it's a top level necklace- worse than the good epics and Necklace of Trophies (about 95.8). With the ability, it's by far the best necklace available for cat DPS.
Assuming it acts like a 72 AP 21 hit rating necklace with an activated ability of 28 crit rating.
We'll be heading to Hydross in the fairly near future (2nd Kara group has had a couple of really close attempts on the Prince. I've been searching the AH nonstop for "protection" items, but are you saying that if you are crit immune, threat > resistance for off tanking?
Not sure how I missed this, sorry.
No, Resist gear really isn't needed if you're just OT on Hydross no matter what method you use. Assuming your DPS is up to par for the fight, adds die at the 50% mark, and the MT isn't taking significant damage yet so 2 healers on you is plenty. And the Adds really are just for burning down so you can get to the boss, every little bit of DPS helps the process.
I should add the caveat that as an herb/alch, I fully pot for just about everything, 5% dodge and 2k health from consumables buffs is par for the course.
Assuming you're using 2 OT's and no more than 7 healers, I'm wondering how you can spare 2 healers for each OT. Raid healing requires at least one full time healer during the frost phase, which would leave only 2 dedicated MT healers. For us at least this wouldn't be enough, an unlucky string of 25% resists on the MT is alot more damage than 2 healers could heal through, even at 50% mark.
It makes sense to try and squeeze out as much dps as possible though I suppose, but do you find you can make any meaningful contribution to dps on a bleed immune boss during the what, 10-15 seconds tops you have between the adds dying and the switch?
So far I've been running it with crit immunity + as much mixed res gear as possible and only weapon + pots for AP. Wondering now whether i should try it your way.
Edit: Oldmandennis, yes you will need crit immunity as no.1 priority. This goes for the MT's too.
Hmm well to be honest we havent killed him yet, been wiping for 2 weeks now. So I'd take any advice you can give me
At the moment we're using 2 warlocks (both rank 1 banish) and 2 OT's. With only 1 OT that would obviously mean tanking 2 adds unless we fear the 3rd which we decided wasn't such a good idea. To tank 2 adds I'd assumed I would really need decent resistance gear which would mean low AP, and I doubt I could hold aggro on the first add given that the raid will be going all out to dps it down asap. Then there's the other problem of having to stack the adds on top of each other in order to benefit from blade flurry, MS, WW, SS etc.
Has anyone considered that avoidance from dodge gets immediatley reduced to 79,07% as soon as you are dealing with Crushing Blows?
If a bear raises its dodge from 0 to 50% it gains only 39,53% avoidance and not 50% (against 73er).
Example:
At 0% dodge and 5% base miss: from 100 hits we get 80,75 normal hits and 14,25 Crushing Blows.
At 50% dodge and 5% base miss: from 100 hits we get 40,375 normal hits and 14,25 Crushing Blows.
Unless I've missed something recently, white attacks are on a 1 roll system, and crushing is 15%.
0% dodge, base 5% miss: 100 attacks you get 5 misses 15 crushing 80 normal hits
50% dodge, base 5% miss: 100 attacks you get 5 misses 15 crushing and 30 normal hits
Unless I've missed something recently, white attacks are on a 1 roll system, and crushing is 15%.
0% dodge, base 5% miss: 100 attacks you get 5 misses 15 crushing 80 normal hits
50% dodge, base 5% miss: 100 attacks you get 5 misses 15 crushing and 30 normal hits
They most definitely can't, you can take my word for it as a barely crush immune with Holy Shield up Paladin
If crushes can't miss... In this case I totally misinterpreted my Recap statistics for the last couple of weaks and my calculations are pretty useless.
If crushes can't miss... In this case I totally misinterpreted my Recap statistics for the last couple of weaks and my calculations are pretty useless.
Thanks for the clarification.
wow is played by millions of people and millions of attacks happen each second.
so the system behind this must be very fast and solid.
its a one roll system where the enemy rolls sth like /random 100
1-15 = enemy miss (5base, 5 scorpid, 5 defense/insect swarm ... whatever)
x-x = parry (to bad if you are druid ;>)
16-65 = dodge (20-30 warrior, 50-6x druid)
x-x = block (warrior/paladin :>)
x-x = crit (if you are crit immun this one goes down the drain)
66-80 = crushing
81-100 = normal hit
only rolls from 66-80 will be crushing the rest is normal or blocked/avoided.
if one part grows (example enemy miss for dual wield mobs ... 24base) the rest is backing up. if you can get miss, parry, dodge, block > 100, good for you no more crushings.
Once upon a time in this thread someone asked for a screenshot of a druid with 1k stamina. I think that's been easily surpassed at this point (last night I had 2 to 3 hundred over this). I was wondering what druid tanks much further along in progression who are maintaining high armor and agi are are seeing for stamina in bear form.
Once upon a time in this thread someone asked for a screenshot of a druid with 1k stamina. I think that's been easily surpassed at this point (last night I had 2 to 3 hundred over this). I was wondering what druid tanks much further along in progression who are maintaining high armor and agi are are seeing for stamina in bear form.
Well of course it's surpassed, that was before the Bear change (25% health before vs 25% sta now). As the King of Agi, I have 615 sta unbuffed in caster, with full raid buffs this ends up being 879 Sta in caster, 1318 in Bear. I currently have my sockets being either Shifting Nightseye or Solid Stars (I have a Glinting Topaz in my gloves for +3 dodge socket bonus that I'm too cheap to replace)
Thanks for your reply, every few days now I check your armory profile and dukes...course you both seem to be in dps gear a lot hehe (Course, so is mine usually).
Hope everyone caught this in the lates post of the new profession changes:
"Heavy Clefthoof Boots", "Heavy Clefthoof Leggings",and "Heavy Clefthoof Vest" have had their armor increased at the expense of some stamina and defense rating.
This is from a few weeks back in this thread (post 227) but the factual errors in this are still bothering me to this day, and I just recovered my login info, so I wanted to correct this post:
Originally Posted by Mistaya
If you're tanking anything raid-wise, I'd value uncritable as more valuable than anything else.
Made up numbers, ignoring dodge:
Boss hits you for 1000
Boss hits you for 1000
Boss hits you for 1000
Boss crushes you for 2000
vs
Boss hits you for 900
Boss hits you for 900
Boss crushes you for 2000
Boss crits you for 2000
You die.
Taking a bit more dmg on a swing is far easier to heal than taking a big spike, even if you are taking more dmg in the long run. Spikes kill tanks.
He's comparing uncritable to armor, but he's completely misrepresented what armor does. Armor is NOT bypassed by crits or crushes. If you increase your armor to take 900 instead of 1000 on a normal hit, you would now take 1800 on a crit instead of 2000. And crushing blows don't hit for +100% damage, they hit for +50% damage. So that string of hits on the improved armor tank is:
hits for 900
hits for 900
crushes for 1350
crits for 1800.
Obviously removing the crit is very important, but after crit immunity I consider armor to be the most important bearform stat. Stamina is close behind and you must have enough hp to take a string of bad hits. Agility is awesome, but I just don't seem to have the space left to stack it often.
Agility is awesome indeed, although obviously armor and hp should be our primary tanking stats. But I cant help thinking that with the way our itemisation is at the moment it's worth investing more into agility than I might otherwise... 15 agi for 1% dodge is a really nice ratio, and it seems hard to stack too much AC given the available tanking leather (or lack thereof). While more HP is never a bad thing, for the raid content where I might be required to tank there's a definite limit to how much HP I'm really going to need. I'd say ~17k buffed is pretty much always enough providing healing is up to par and once I've reached that I value agility over stamina, especially given our relative lack of avoidance compared to warrs.
Updates from the 2.1.0 PTR on a few of my bear tanking items:
Heavy Clefthoof Leggings are now 503AC, 33 stamina, 29 defense rating, sockets unchanged
Heavy Clefthoof Boots are now 394AC, 30 stam, 21 defense rating, sockets unchanged
Violet Signet (blue, tanking) is 273AC, 27 stam, 13 defense rating
Earthwarden now has 39 defense rating (still 500AC, 24 feral skill, 525AP in forms)
Thoriumweave Cloak has 390AC, 35 stam
And it appears that items which sacrifice stats for armor display the armor value in green- I noticed this on Boots of the Shadow Flame and Lava Belt on my rogue, along with most of my druid's tanking gear.
Regarding the Violet Signet (blue, tanking), are you sure of the armor value you gave it?
The second top one for my druid still has the 235AC 31Stam 15Def that it had in the previous patch, and the top ranked one has not changed either.
Rest of the tanking quest items have not changed either: Supple leather boots, Verdant Gloves, Umberhowl's Collar, Manimal's Cinch.
Edit:
Violet Signet(revered, tanking): No Change
Violet Signet of the Great Protector: No Change
Heavy Clefthoof Chest: 500AC 45Stam 24Defence same sockets and bonus as before.
Nethercleft Leg Armor: 40 Stam, 12 Agi.
Last edited by Nathariel : 04/13/07 at 4:56 AM.
Reason: adding extra items.
04/05/07, 5:11 PM
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