Bear tank item comparisons - Page 41

Melthar · 05/08/07, 9:49 AM

Originally Posted by Cronjob

What should I add to my chest? Armor? +150 HP enchant?

Covered before, but +6stats, or if you need the anti-crit, 15 resilience (you probably won't need it with the gear you're looking at)

Never bother with armor enchants, they don't benefit from the bear form multiplier.

Runnybabbit · 05/08/07, 9:51 AM

Originally Posted by Cronjob

What should I add to my chest? Armor? +150 HP enchant?

I've always preferred +6 stats enchant for the chest slot, and I think you'll find that's the consensus among most tanks here as well. You lose a little over 50 HP, but you gain some AP, armor, dodge, and crit.

EDIT: Tytal, a tauren druid with Heart of the Wild and Survival of the Fittest gets over 16 HP per point of stamina in bear form. Looking it up now...16.2225, according to druid.wikispaces.com. So you get 97 HP or so from the +6 stats enchant.

Crowbite · 05/08/07, 10:23 AM

Originally Posted by Runnybabbit

I've always preferred +6 stats enchant for the chest slot, and I think you'll find that's the consensus among most tanks here as well. You lose a little over 50 HP, but you gain some AP, armor, dodge, and crit.

EDIT: Tytal, a tauren druid with Heart of the Wild and Survival of the Fittest gets over 16 HP per point of stamina in bear form. Looking it up now...16.2225, according to druid.wikispaces.com. So you get 97 HP or so from the +6 stats enchant.

Am I reading it wrong? Doesn't the tauren bonus work with both 150 health or 6 sta?

150 health + 5% health = 157.5 hp

6sta x 10hp/sta x 1.03 (SofT) x 1.2 (HotW) x 1.05 ( tauren Racial) x 1.25 (bear form) = 97.335 hp?

60 hp difference. Of course I'm leaving out BoK which will boost the 6 sta again.

6sta x 10hp/sta x 1.03 (SofT) x 1.2 (HotW) x 1.05 ( tauren Racial) x 1.1 (BoK) x 1.25 (bear)= 107.0685 hp

So a 50 hp difference when you have BoK

EDIT: I always seem to have holes in my very basic math. Thanks to Dukes for reminding me about the bearform hp bonus

dukes · 05/08/07, 10:32 AM

Bear form gives a 1.25x stamina coeffient in itself too.

From what I can work out, that's 9.7335 stamina equivalent, or 100hp assuming rounding (which I'm not sure if it does or not).

Crowbite · 05/08/07, 10:33 AM

Originally Posted by dukes

Bear form gives a 1.25x stamina coeffient in itself too.

Ah. Now I fee stupid. Thanks

Runnybabbit · 05/08/07, 3:41 PM

Originally Posted by Fleebenworth

Except warriors are nowhere near the cap...

That's true. I feel so self-absorbed now. I'll turn this around and ask how many bears here plan on hanging on to the Thick Hide talent? If we're going to be realizing such extremely high armor numbers basically as a matter of course, are those points better spent elsewhere?

I didn't have Thick Hide for quite a long while, actually. I didn't need it while leveling, nor was it a requirement for tanking 5-mans. Given that we were able to obtain a significant number of (formerly) top-end bear tanking items from quests and dungeon drops, many before we even hit 70, I felt the extra armor was a pretty marginal benefit. Once I started running heroics more regularly and got into Karazhan, though, I grabbed it again.

Now that it appears we'll be able to push the armor cap with ease, if I can approach the threshold at which my base armor + normal raid buffs + temporary armor increases from my healers = 75% mitigation, then it's time to put those points elsewhere. For me, with my current 0/44/17 build, that'd mean picking up Primal Tenacity again most likely.

Mu · 05/08/07, 4:26 PM

I'll be keeping 3/3 thick hide even though I'm well over 75% vs a level 70 on PTR. Even with the blade's edge trinket I still won't be maxed against a 73 and I don't like relying on procs. Also I'd rather have too much armor than not enough...if I'm over 75% for a mob I could swap out mark of tyranny for the moroes trinket, or whatever.

And of course, there are plenty of situations where I end up having to tank in DPS gear. Magtheridon's a good example, I handle the first add in cat gear then DPS the rest of the fight.

Marwel · 05/09/07, 9:25 AM

Think of thick hide in the way of how many item creation points it would cost do get it from gear alone, take those points and place them in other tanking stats.

And since extra armor on items will always cost item creation points, I don't think I will ever drop the talent on my druid.

Cronjob · 05/09/07, 9:39 AM

Originally Posted by Mu

I'll be keeping 3/3 thick hide even though I'm well over 75% vs a level 70 on PTR. Even with the blade's edge trinket I still won't be maxed against a 73 and I don't like relying on procs. Also I'd rather have too much armor than not enough...if I'm over 75% for a mob I could swap out mark of tyranny for the moroes trinket, or whatever.

And of course, there are plenty of situations where I end up having to tank in DPS gear. Magtheridon's a good example, I handle the first add in cat gear then DPS the rest of the fight.

what blades edge trinket? I'm a young druid still looking for gear, trinkets and rings.

Farstrider · 05/09/07, 9:54 AM

Originally Posted by Cronjob

what blades edge trinket? I'm a young druid still looking for gear, trinkets and rings.

In the next patch. There's a link and a pic about 2-3 pages back.

Just FYI it doesn't go down that well here to wander in to end of a thread and ask about something that's been mentioned in the last few pages, it looks kind of lazy.

Mu · 05/09/07, 9:55 AM

Originally Posted by Cronjob

what blades edge trinket? I'm a young druid still looking for gear, trinkets and rings.

New trinket in the upcoming patch, it's a random drop on the Blade's Edge plateaus. It's been posted a few times in this thread but here it is again:

Paniolo · 05/09/07, 11:43 AM

Saying it's ok to drop thick hide because you reach the armor cap with external buffs is like saying its OK to drop SotF because you're uncrittable when flasked. I mean, if you really want to be gimped except under perfect circumstances, go for it, but is there really anything -that- compelling for those points? It's not like you can pick up NS or something, most people would probably just get the fear/stun resist.

Tyvi · 05/09/07, 1:12 PM

Originally Posted by Paniolo

Saying it's ok to drop thick hide because you reach the armor cap with external buffs is like saying its OK to drop SotF because you're uncrittable when flasked.

It's even worse than that. The flask gives you guaranteed crit immunity, Inspiration is just a proc.

roquer · 05/11/07, 8:40 AM

How does Earthen elixir compare with elixir of major defense for physical mitigation? What about purely magical encounters, such as tanking Aran's water elementals?

Unraveller · 05/11/07, 10:02 AM

Originally Posted by Runnybabbit

That's true. I feel so self-absorbed now. I'll turn this around and ask how many bears here plan on hanging on to the Thick Hide talent? If we're going to be realizing such extremely high armor numbers basically as a matter of course, are those points better spent elsewhere?

I didn't have Thick Hide for quite a long while, actually. I didn't need it while leveling, nor was it a requirement for tanking 5-mans. Given that we were able to obtain a significant number of (formerly) top-end bear tanking items from quests and dungeon drops, many before we even hit 70, I felt the extra armor was a pretty marginal benefit. Once I started running heroics more regularly and got into Karazhan, though, I grabbed it again.

Now that it appears we'll be able to push the armor cap with ease, if I can approach the threshold at which my base armor + normal raid buffs + temporary armor increases from my healers = 75% mitigation, then it's time to put those points elsewhere. For me, with my current 0/44/17 build, that'd mean picking up Primal Tenacity again most likely.

You make the classic mistake of thinking Thick Hide suffers from diminishing returns: it doesn't, in fact, it get's stronger at higher armor values.

Thick Hide get's stronger the higher your armor gets, until you surpass 75%. Remember, going from 74% to 75% is a 4% reduction in damage taken, not 1%. Whereas 49-50% is 2% reduction in damage taken.