oldmandennis

Not technically - you are uncrittable. You need to be uncrittable weather through resil or defense, and after that resiliance is useless and defense marginal.

 

dukes

You need 156 defence rating (not 415 total as it can round it up). Resillience is an "easier" way to get it - especially if you use 2 piece gladitor for the set bonus.

As for standard hp/armour/etc, probably aim for 25k armour, and then as much health as you can and don't worry too much about dodge imo.

 

• sordee

You do realize that you already have 3% reduced crit from talents, so at 104 resillience, you shall be crit Immune (If using the resilience route)

 

Lolishibari

I can hit pretty high in numbers, I was just curious to see what resilience could do for a druid on bosses where magic demage is being dealt.

 

Grizlock

NPC spells don't crit for whatever reason. So resilience is useless vs magic, stack stamina.

 

oldmandennis

Spells and special abilites don't crit because they would be stupid if they did. Best example I can think of is Nef's shadow flame. If it crit, it would be unmanageable on the tank, unless they nerfed the base damage to the point where it didn't threaten the raid if one got loose. Or Aran - crits would be gibbing people instantly.

 

Boevis

Spells can't crit, Magical Melee attacks (hydross, other elementals) can crit.

 

Lolishibari

Yes, I was thinking more of the boss in Heroic Mana tombs who hits for only shadow damage, magic melee, vs actually spells. Resilience would be perfered there, yes?

Also, the maintank, who is an officer, of the guild is harping on me for putting some +hit gems on my gear. Not a lot, but a few here and there. I was having some string of misses in Kara and even in some heriocs, so I switched around my gems and I feel comfortable about the level of hit rating I have now. However, the main tank is telling me *no* tank really needs +hit so long as the party threat is uncapped?

I am a bit confused by what he is saying (or trying to). I feel comfortable with the +hit to make sure my 6 second cool down in Mangle was not in vain and make sure ever hit lands to keep the agro from my dps happy raid mates. I know what I like, but he keeps trying to bully the other feral druid into just going with pure stamina gems in his tank gear. Nothing else. I am feeling rather uncomfortable in my new guild suddenly cause of him trying to dicate what I can or can not roll on and how to socket my armours.

x.x Sorry for the sudden slew of questions and sorry if they seem rather "noobish". I am a former pre-BC healbot Priest and Warlock.

 

Boevis

Yes, Resilience/Sta gear is very good for getting crit immune, however, do not underestimate the dodge/miss generated by Defense. Certainly things like the CoT trinket and PvP Belt/Bracers are amazing, but your rings/neck/back/(boots) should be the standard armor/defense ones.

As I've stated earlier in this thread, +hit gear is nearly useless for a tank in most raiding situations because of hunter misdirect and/or salvation on everyone. In 5 mans, it's pretty useful as you're tanking multiple mobs constantly and usually don't have anyone capable of OT with you, in the past I did find it difficult to hold aggro off of healers on heroic mode large fights (SH, SL, etc) and being able to land Maul+Mangle on bosses with aggro resets is very important (Nightbane, Hydross, Leothrass, Void Reaver) however +feral combat skill is a much more efficient way of getting past this than +hit, and the 3 main items with +skill are also admirable for tanking (Earthwarden, Clefthoof hide, and Shapeshifters Signet)

Also consider the value of +Sta for feral, we get 50% more Sta when in bearform, and gems are an amazing way of stacking it.

 

Cuandoman

At what point is stacking stam too much? Eventually your giving up the opportunity for more dodge or crit. Raid buffed I'm still on par with our warrior MT when raid buffed and I'm stacking agility like crazy. I figure that until I have an issue with hit points the agility serves a dual purpose for dps and tanking.

Oh, and NE ftl. 1% dodge =/= 5% scaling stam.

 

Marling

Not that I've reached the point just yet, but I've been going along with needing enough stamina to survive 5-10sec of bad luck on a boss (crushes, bad positions, whatever), and then not worrying about needing to go beyond that level. As long as your stamina gives your healers time to recover, your doing the raid a greater favour by looking into mitigation (armour/dodge/whatever floats your boat).

http://wow.tachyonsix.com.nyud.net:8...dge!v$1!f$.png

 

tunah

At the point when your healers are going OOM basically. You should have significantly more stamina than a warrior. This, combined with more armor, is the reason you can eat crushing blows regularly and survive.

In the long term, the average case will determine the mana efficiency, and the worst case will determine whether you survive. More dodge doesn't even reduce the probability of the worst case - chain crushings.

 

gophermunchr

I have two subsets of tanking gear. If I'm gonna be tanking a boss that hits really hard like gruul or DW I toss on as much stam gear as possible (clefthoof, furies deck) so that I top out near 22k buffed, which is pathetic considering the MT has around 20k health. I dunno what else I can do to stack stam

 

Tasonir

A common complaint is that our idol slot is worthless for tanking compared to 5% block for paladins/stamina guns for warriors. So I figured I'd ask...what would want to see in the idol slot? I doubt we'll ever get plain stat items, so my thought was an idol that buffed demoralizing roar. Something that would make it more comparable to a warrior's shout.

Any other abilities that buffing would help with tanking? Better faerie fire to pretend we have sunder? Not really helpful to mitigation

 

Boevis

Your Lacerate blinds the target, increasing it's chance to miss by 1% per application.

Your Enrage ability increases your tolerance to pain, you take 100 less damage per source for the next 10 sources.

Your Demoralizing Roar reduces Enemies Spell Damage and Healing by up to 150.

Increases your Dodge Rating by 38 and your Critical Strike Rating by 44 in Cat Form, Bear Form or Dire Bear Form

 

Meddler

Something to benefit Frenzied Regeneration would seem the obvious choice, that skill needs all the help it can get (and needs a review but that's another matter).

 

SS_Keera

I have to say there are quite some possibilities of new idols to add and i can't really believe that blizzard has not come up with a viable one for tanking druids with TBC.
The suggestions from Boevis are nice examples focusing on improving our performance at tanking.

Another possibility would be to strenghten our position as OT by giving our tanking abilities some group/raid wide buffs/debuffs (e.g. each application of Lacerate increases dmg done to the target by 0.2%; Mangle(Bear) critical strikes have the chance to enrage nearby group members increasing their dmg output by 1% for 10 seconds) or something like that. Would be very helpful when you're tanking hurtful strikes or similar things.

Just my thoughts on the idol topic

 

Boevis

The biggest problem with relic (not just druid idols) design thus far is a rather blatant fact that they had different people designing them, all of whom have no precedent for the items abilities beyond a couple set bonus's. Many of them were also clearly designed before, or unaltered by patch notes (Lacerate Idol for instance), so we end up with some relics that are horribly underpowered, and others which are horribly overpowered (the later being the only ones that get changed)

 

SS_Keera

Maybe but correct me when Im' wrong: the druids tanking relics are the ones, which are most terrible.
I'm mean there are plenty of relics for all three hybrid classes and their speccs. For example helping prot paladins to get "uncrushable", buffing windfury, chain healing and lightning for shamans. Hell I even like the restoration and balance idols for druids. But what we have available for tanking is just horrible.
I had not the intention to whine, and maybe the opinion is biased. The problem might be also that the always tried to see "feral" as one spec and to not distinguish between cat and bear regarding the idol itemization.

 

Jini

Suppose there was an Idol that caused the Lacerate DoT to do five times the threat it does now.

 

Malazaar

"Idol of Anticipation

Every time you dodge an attack, you gain a buff that absorbs 10% damage of the next attack hitting you."

That would be nice for example.

 

Vandermonde

Something that makes frenzied do anything at all when you hit the button as opposed to 4 seconds after you die would be very welcome. I'd previously thought of intensity perhaps working on FR instead of your enrage, so yeah, that would be a nice trick on an idol as well. It also needs to scale at least marginally, but that's outside the scope of this discussion.

I'm a bit upset with how narrow your options are with idols compared to other slots. There's no choice of more stam vs more hit rating etc. Your rotation for any given role is bound to be dominated by <4 abilities, so you just figure out which of the two idols that correspond to spells or abilities you actually use is more effective on average and put it in there for the rest of the game. And for something that refuses to list straight stats, all they actually do is directly and predictably give you extra dps/tps or hps/hpm. That's not to say they're underpowered; I'd be surprised to learn a rogue is getting more out of his gun slot than I'm getting out of everbloom. It's just a bit sad that there aren't a broader range of options.

The ravengod idol is at least a little outside the box of your [spellname] gains x healing/damage. It could be cool to see something like boevis suggested that say, buffs you or your group or raid in a logical way when you use an ability instead of making that ability just do more of what it already did. The moonglade 2-piece is a decent example of this kind of thing already in the game.

 

Tasonir

Some very interesting idol ideas, wanted to comment on some of them.

The enrage idol would be problematic because enrage lowers your armor. Adding a damage reducing effect would really be more of a zero sum then a useful tanking ability. And if you're mid-battle, the rage isn't too useful. I'd like to see it grant something like immunity to fear - druid stance dance. It even has the matching + damage taken effect.

5% to miss on lacerate would be a bit much, but maybe a static -1 or -2% would be a very nice idol.

The Demoralizing roar idol sounds great and would be perfect as is.

The dodge/crit rating idol I don't see them making, just because they don't put pure stats on idols. I wish they would, but I was hoping to get some practical idols we could post on the official forums and pray for. Not that we'll ever see them, but I dare to dream

Probably the same for idol of anticipation...Dodge isn't really a class skill, although the effect is interesting. Assuming a 50% dodge, you'd get the buff every other hit (calculated simply by if the swing before it was dodged, so exactly equal to your dodge rate) and with a 25 man raid boss hitting for ~6k (let's average) that's about 600 damage off, or -300 per swing, on average. That's quite an idol, it's practically the same as shield block. Although for a relatively low +block warrior. Higher warriors scale past that, and the idol wouldn't block crushing I'm sure.

What I'd be interested in is finding a way to make frenzied regen worthwhile. I don't really think an idol would be the answer, though, I think they'd just have to review the skill. My vote's on removing the cooldown, but I guess this is straying from bear tank items.

 

◊ Lorewanderer

An idol that made Enrage also make you fear immune would be spectacular, particularly for Horde druids. I'd be fine if it removed some of the rage generated or something even.

A frenzied regen idol could work well too. Have it reduce the duration to 1/3, triple (or more, while we're wishing) the regen rate and rage consumption. That would make it 825/second for three seconds, so actually approaching useful.

The times I've used Frenzied Regen in its present form to any practical effect.... um, Maiden once when we had no HoT/Paladin healers and I was low going into a repentance.

 

SS_Keera