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05/11/07, 1:14 PM
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#616
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Piston Honda
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Originally Posted by Mu
New trinket in the upcoming patch, it's a random drop on the Blade's Edge plateaus. It's been posted a few times in this thread but here it is again:
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Slightly off topic but are the depleted items that drop completely random or based on which classes are present?
In other words will that depleted trinket only drop for a druid/warrior/paladin or can any class get it as a drop?
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05/11/07, 1:33 PM
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#617
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Mod
Gnome Monk
Azjol-Nerub (EU)
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Originally Posted by Karoo
Slightly off topic but are the depleted items that drop completely random or based on which classes are present?
In other words will that depleted trinket only drop for a druid/warrior/paladin or can any class get it as a drop?
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They're definitely not class limited unless Blizzard somehow thinks a Rogue can use a staff or epic mail gloves: Ethereum Prison Information (The relevant part is in page 2)
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05/12/07, 8:52 AM
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#618
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Glass Joe
Tauren Druid
Ner'zhul (EU)
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http://www.mmo-champion.com/images/n...may/pillar.jpg
This staff dropped from Anetheron in Hyjal on PTR :
Pillar of Ferocity
550 armor
47 STR
96 STA
826 Feral AP
Finally a item designed for feral druids that is not a trash loot !
Still, I don't know where we'll find our crit immunity with the lack of defense rating on our sets / non-set items (the boots from BT trash) and weapons 
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05/12/07, 9:00 AM
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#619
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Bald Bull
Dukes
Tauren Druid
No WoW Account (EU)
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As for defence - I think resillience is going to be the way to go for it. Much cheaper item-wise and there's some pretty nice items with it (most of the PvP gear - especially the belt). Much easier to hit the cap with a bit of resillience than by stacking defence. Another thing not to forget about is the 15 resillience on chest enchant. 6 stats is really nice, but if you need crit immunity, it's a pretty easy thing to drop compared to other items.
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05/12/07, 12:07 PM
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#620
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Bald Bull
Tauren Druid
Lightbringer
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Are druids really that hard up for Defense/Resilience that this is really an issue? I mean seriously, people keep talking like the Clefthoof Set is the only place to get Defense, when in reality it's not even needed/wanted. There's a reason I dislike the set, and it ain't lack of agility, it's the 86 (next to-)useless defense rating.
Head: Glyph of the Defender: +16 Defense Rating
Neck: Necklace of the Juggernaut: +21 Defense Rating
Shoulders: Greater Inscription of the Knight: +15 Defense Rating (+10 for Aldor)
Cloak: Gilded Thorium Cloak: +21 Defense Rating (Resolute Cape +21 Resilience)
Finger: Violet Signet of the Great Protector: +16 Defense Rating
Finger: Ring of Unyielding Force: +21 Defense Rating
Trinket: Timelapse Shard: +23 Resilience
Weapon: Earthwarden: +24 Defense Rating
That's +134 Defense (129 for Aldor) and +23 Resilience, Bam, crit immune.
This isn't even "lol@Boevis and his agility", every time I see druids complaining about defense I'm longing to ask Why the hell aren't you using those items listed above? I know I sound like an ass, but if you're not at the level of progression where you have access to those items, then I honestly don't think the presence of Defense/Resilience on SSC/TE/BT/Hyjal loot is any of your concern.
Do I really think I'm going to be using those things when I enter BT/Hyjal? Most of them, yes. After all, I was using Jin'do's Evil Eye, MoUL, Cauterizing Band, and Cenarion Gloves (don't ask) not to mention the ZG enchants and DM Trinket to heal in Naxx. I'm honestly shocked that right off the bat we basically get uncritable status and amazing health/armor handed to us.
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05/12/07, 12:18 PM
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#621
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StUfF
Night Elf Druid
Jubei'Thos
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Originally Posted by dukes
As for defence - I think resillience is going to be the way to go for it. Much cheaper item-wise and there's some pretty nice items with it (most of the PvP gear - especially the belt). Much easier to hit the cap with a bit of resillience than by stacking defence. Another thing not to forget about is the 15 resillience on chest enchant. 6 stats is really nice, but if you need crit immunity, it's a pretty easy thing to drop compared to other items.
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no.
Resilience is roughly 30% more expensive than defense just for the crit reduction, not to mention the extra dodge defense gives.
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05/12/07, 12:22 PM
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#622
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Von Kaiser
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Who wants to use earthwarden or timelapse shard when there are better options(ignoring def cap requirements of course).
Neck: 21
Cloak: 21
Shoulders: 15
Rings: 37
Total: 100 def rating, 40 defense
That leaves you more than 60 defense rating short of the cap, which is no easy gap to fill.
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05/12/07, 12:39 PM
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#623
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Period Queef.
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Originally Posted by Waka
Pillar of Ferocity
550 armor
47 STR
96 STA
826 Feral AP
Finally a item designed for feral druids that is not a trash loot !
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All feral staffs are itemized poorly. That staff has a base dps of 71, which means that Druids lose 16.1 DPS when compared to other classes who equip 141 iLevel weapons. For a more detailed explanation: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...icId=102781816
I will probably make an official EJ post at some point...
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05/12/07, 12:59 PM
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#624
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Von Kaiser
Night Elf Druid
Burning Legion
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Originally Posted by Xantcha
no.
Resilience is roughly 30% more expensive than defense just for the crit reduction, not to mention the extra dodge defense gives.
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Not true.
you need ~40 resilience per 1% less crit, or 25 defense. 25 Defense costs ~60 defense rating. Therefore Defense is 50% more expensive just for the crit reduction. To become crit immune you need either 102 resilience or 75 defense (154 defense rating), or some combination of the 2.
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05/12/07, 1:40 PM
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#625
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Don Flamenco
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Is anyone else having a really hard time deciding how to kit their gear with the upcoming patch? I'm finding myself in this delicate position of tanking stats vs DPS stats, and too many socketable items are overlapping.
Pants are my biggest issue at the moment, as I have the Forestwalker, and have access to T4/5, not to mention that the pants slot represents a large 'bonus' from the leg enchant. From a tanking standpoint, T5 are the best of the three. Irritatingly though, T5 are also the best from a DPS standpoint, only slightly edging CHL once they have the blue socket+socket bonus. I'm finding myself in a similar position with chestpieces as well.
I think my primary problem is being a min/max player, to the utter extreme. I loathe hybridizing my gear, but can't see any suitable alternative that doesn't include 2 sets of T5. But that just seems silly to me, all for the sake of a socket, and a leg enchant.
Kind of free-thought writing here, I'll likely just end up putting Shifting Nightseye in everything, much to my chagrin.
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05/12/07, 1:49 PM
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#626
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Bald Bull
Tauren Druid
Lightbringer
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Originally Posted by roquer
Not true.
you need ~40 resilience per 1% less crit, or 25 defense. 25 Defense costs ~60 defense rating. Therefore Defense is 50% more expensive just for the crit reduction. To become crit immune you need either 102 resilience or 75 defense (154 defense rating), or some combination of the 2.
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Indeed, it's been proven already that a mix of Resilience and Agility returns a higher Crit Reduction + Avoidance than Defense for the same item value.
That's some funny math Fleeb, I'll help you out and kick this up to 2.1 buffed values for the items, and include the helm enchant and a 2.1 flask. 16+15+24+22+22+19+10 = 128 rating = 53 defense = 2.12% Crit Reduction.
You need .48% more for immunity, that's +12 defense (+29 defense rating) or +19 Resilience, or some mix such as the +15 Resilience to chest and +12 Defense to bracers (or any multitude of gems available) Actually, looking at this myself, I think I'll opt for the Resolute Cloak over the Gilded Thorium for 1.72 reduction from defense and .53 from resilience and throw on the chest enchant to cover the rest and keep my sockets for Sta...
As for Sadris, you are making a rather big assumption that Blizzard intends our paw DPS to be equivalent to. I honestly don't remember any blue posts or patch notes saying "FAP/14+55.4 should equal the DPS of a 2-hander with equal iLevel". In fact, I remember before TBC came out, it was balanced around "FAP/14+55.4 = DPS of 1H of equal ILevel" (ex. MoUL, EoD) and am quite happy they decided we should be somewhere in between. If you can direct me to a post by Blizzard indicating what kind of DPS they intend druids to be doing, please do so, if not I will be quoting Lord Beef.
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05/13/07, 1:27 AM
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#627
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Soda Popinski
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Originally Posted by Fleebenworth
Who wants to use earthwarden or timelapse shard when there are better options(ignoring def cap requirements of course).
Neck: 21
Cloak: 21
Shoulders: 15
Rings: 37
Total: 100 def rating, 40 defense
That leaves you more than 60 defense rating short of the cap, which is no easy gap to fill.
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Why replace the Earthwarden? It's not just the defense that makes it wonderful. The +6 feral weapon skill is what makes it a premium tanking weapon. Maybe when I get that new Primal feral staff, I'll consider it.
Edit;

Originally Posted by HaklePrime
Is anyone else having a really hard time deciding how to kit their gear with the upcoming patch? I'm finding myself in this delicate position of tanking stats vs DPS stats, and too many socketable items are overlapping.
Pants are my biggest issue at the moment, as I have the Forestwalker, and have access to T4/5, not to mention that the pants slot represents a large 'bonus' from the leg enchant. From a tanking standpoint, T5 are the best of the three. Irritatingly though, T5 are also the best from a DPS standpoint, only slightly edging CHL once they have the blue socket+socket bonus. I'm finding myself in a similar position with chestpieces as well.
I think my primary problem is being a min/max player, to the utter extreme. I loathe hybridizing my gear, but can't see any suitable alternative that doesn't include 2 sets of T5. But that just seems silly to me, all for the sake of a socket, and a leg enchant.
Kind of free-thought writing here, I'll likely just end up putting Shifting Nightseye in everything, much to my chagrin.
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Doesn't it depend on your situation in the guild. We are just starting into SSC but I'm basically MT number2. Until that changes, I'll be thinking tank first and dps second.
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Originally Posted by missiletoad
I get enjoyment out of constructing buildings out of my fries and demolishing them with my chicken nugget army as I make monster noises. But you people. You people are FREAKS.
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05/13/07, 1:35 AM
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#628
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Period Queef.
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Originally Posted by Boevis
As for Sadris, you are making a rather big assumption that Blizzard intends our paw DPS to be equivalent to. I honestly don't remember any blue posts or patch notes saying "FAP/14+55.4 should equal the DPS of a 2-hander with equal iLevel".
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I am certain that Blizzard doesn't intend our relative DPS to decrease the farther we progress into raid content, which is what is happening with the current implementation of FAP.
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05/13/07, 2:09 AM
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#629
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Bald Bull
Tauren Druid
Lightbringer
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Well, since you apparently have personal contact with the Devs at Blizzard, would you mind telling the rest of us what exactly do they intend Druids to be capable of in Endgame, since I know we're all very curious to actually hear we have some design intent.
Also, tell them to turn the Wildfury Greatstaffs +43 Dodge into +43 Agility.
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05/13/07, 3:32 AM
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#630
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Glass Joe
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Originally Posted by Boevis
Indeed, it's been proven already that a mix of Resilience and Agility returns a higher Crit Reduction + Avoidance than Defense for the same item value.
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Could you show me where this was proven? Last time I ran the numbers, what you suggest was proven incorrect. Taking 2.6% crit reduction as an example, it takes 102 resilience or 154 defense rating to achieve this. Thus, the difference in iLevel leaves 52 points of agility, which grants ~3.6% dodge. Conversely, the 154 defense rating also grants 2.6% dodge and 2.6% chance to be missed (this is probably what you forgot to consider).
Thus, defense is more efficient in terms of item value from a big picture perspective, as it grants 1.6% greater avoidance than the equivalent resilience + agility. It should also be mentioned that the agility will add a significant amount of +crit as well to help with threat, but from a purely defensive standpoint, the defense wings.
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