Thanks mate, so you would effectively be unhitable for all raid bosses out there with a druid wearing 2/5 moonglade keeping rejuv on you. Your crit rate would also be insane, so TPS shouldn't be an issue.
I'm really keen on trying this out, but getting the gear will take a while though.
Btw, multiple 2/5 moonglade sets stack. That could possibly be a nice staple fix if needed. Good luck on the endeavour
Yeah, scrolls basically count as class buffs. Int is a lower powered Arcane Intellect, Spr is a lower powered Divine Spirit, and Sta is a lower powered PW: Fortitude. (Are you sure it was the food buff you had on that was 'a more powerful spell', and not a PW:Fort?)
There's no class buff for Agi, Str, or Armor, so those scrolls are useful in raids. Since the alchemy nerf, if I really want to go all out for a fight, I'll use Major Agility, Major Defense or Ironskin, Scrolls of Agi/Prot/Str, 20agi or 30sta food depending on the fight, and maybe even drums and weapon stone.
Scymoril's got enchants wrong... Head needs the KoT enchant, back needs 12agi, bracers needs 4stats, gloves needs 15agi. Those should be easy to fix. Otherwise, his gear is fine. One thing he could work on is getting the belt from Heroic Ramparts
Silvara needs to get exalted with CE asap, for earthwarden. He's got a dps enchant on his head, not a tanking enchant, get the KoT one. Shoulders have no enchant, get the aldor/scryer one. Back should have 12agi, chest should have 6stats, bracers should have 4stats, gloves should have 15agi, he could get the Heroic Ramparts belt as well, and his boots need 12sta or 12agi.
I thought I read earlier in the thread that the DPS enchants for helm and shoulders were usually preferred, especially when you're playing an OT/DPS role most of the time? No argument about the glove and cloak enchants, of course.
Thanks for all the information, I really appreciate the help.
I thought I read earlier in the thread that the DPS enchants for helm and shoulders were usually preferred, especially when you're playing an OT/DPS role most of the time? No argument about the glove and cloak enchants, of course.
Thanks for all the information, I really appreciate the help.
Well, I suppose the helm and shoulder enchants are the only ones that don't double as decent dps enchants. If they want to be a better tank, use the tanking enchants. If they want to be a better dpser, use the dps enchants. *shrug*
I thought I read earlier in the thread that the DPS enchants for helm and shoulders were usually preferred, especially when you're playing an OT/DPS role most of the time? No argument about the glove and cloak enchants, of course.
Thanks for all the information, I really appreciate the help.
If you are already past a certain point in your gear, sure. But the idea is, you need the crit-immunity if you're tanking anything in a raid scenario, that's just non-negotiable. And they are both just a little over it, and that's with the help of some gems. Tanking-wise, they would see an improvement if they were to take the enchants we suggested, because it would open up a lot more possibilities on their socketting choices, for one.
If you are already past a certain point in your gear, sure. But the idea is, you need the crit-immunity if you're tanking anything in a raid scenario, that's just non-negotiable. And they are both just a little over it, and that's with the help of some gems. Tanking-wise, they would see an improvement if they were to take the enchants we suggested, because it would open up a lot more possibilities on their socketting choices, for one.
Good point -- I'm sure they can go with the DPS enchants once the rest of their gear improves.
Looking through your guild on the Armory, I don't see any other raiding ferals than those 2. I would strongly recommend having at least one of them be primarily a bear. Limiting your MTs to just warriors (or paladins, didn't look for those), will negatively impact your progression.
Last edited by Astrylian : 08/16/07 at 6:03 PM.
Reason: typo
Our regular tank roster is 2 Prot Warriors, 1 Prot Paladin, and the 2 Ferals discussed in this thread already. All 5 are regularly given important tanking roles, depending on the encounter. My main concern is the fact that the Druids are relatively under-geared compared with the other 3, particularly in the DPS department (long story short, they passed on all the DPS gear to a DPS-centric Feral who then transferred off the server).
The real strength, from my perspective as a raid leader, is that the Ferals should be able to perform well in a DPS role when they're not tanking. We prefer to stick with basically the same lineup for the entire evening, and don't do a lot of swapping in and out to stack the raid for a given fight. The Druids do a fantastic job of tanking, but I'm wondering what they can do to improve their already solid threat generation, and DPS when they're not tanking.
Our regular tank roster is 2 Prot Warriors, 1 Prot Paladin, and the 2 Ferals discussed in this thread already. All 5 are regularly given important tanking roles, depending on the encounter. My main concern is the fact that the Druids are relatively under-geared compared with the other 3, particularly in the DPS department (long story short, they passed on all the DPS gear to a DPS-centric Feral who then transferred off the server).
The real strength, from my perspective as a raid leader, is that the Ferals should be able to perform well in a DPS role when they're not tanking. We prefer to stick with basically the same lineup for the entire evening, and don't do a lot of swapping in and out to stack the raid for a given fight. The Druids do a fantastic job of tanking, but I'm wondering what they can do to improve their already solid threat generation, and DPS when they're not tanking.
I guess we are all assuming that they have two sets of gear, one for tanking and one for DPS. I know my Druid does. We are evaluating their tanking gear.
Are you interested in a feral DPS gear analysis? That question would probably be better in the other thread.
I would strongly recommend having at least one of them be primarily a bear. Limiting your MTs to just warriors (or paladins, didn't look for those), will negatively impact your progression.
That's neither here nor there - you can do the whole raid game without even having a feral in the raid, and not having one won't limit you significantly until you get to fights which are in BT which require insane DPS in some phases and good tanking (and offtanking) in other phases. We've never had a "primarily bear" feral - both of ours are offtank/dps, and then we have 2 prot warriors of which one respecced MS/bloodfrenzy for BT as it only needs one MT. Paladins as MT's are generally accepted as less good than warriors, simply because of the health defecit, but that doesn't mean you can't use them.
The other factor is that there are some fights specifically tailored to warriors, although these are generally later in the raid game (anti-fear, spell reflect, shield block required).
There are a lot of fights, and the majority of trash, which benefit from having a "hybrid" gear setup which lets you switch freely between bear/cat forms with minor penalties (the DPS set has slightly less armour and isn't crit capped; the bear set has slightly less AP/crit but is crit capped with more armour - both my sets have similar HP although the bear one has a small amount more). Having a "one-set-fits-all" mentality helps a lot in many fights, with only having to switch a couple of items for different fights. As I listed above, theres a lot of gear which just seems perfectly designed for this (with the downside of having int, but you've basically got to accept that).
I dont know if it is answered in the previous 50 pages of this threat but can someone plz define the best combination of the druids tiers for tanking, dps and offtanking. They say that 4/5 t5 is worse than 2/5 t4 for dps is it true? If the tier combination subject is answered elsewhere can somone link plz?
(Off)Tanking is fairly simple, the 4/5 T4 is really only better than T5 until you get Legs+2 Other pieces, at which point the Stats and innate armor of T5 is superior to the 4/5 T4. Since T5 bonus's suck for tanking, put on T6 whenever you get it.
Scymoril: tanking stats seem adequate, he is actually 9 def rating above the uncrittable status. In total between the chest and the feet, he uses +20 def from gems. If he were to put +12 def on bracers, he could replace all these gems by +12 sta gems, which would be much better. Then a straight red +agi gem (at least +8) would be better than the crit/dodge gem he has on boots. Once that is taken care of, he can put a glyph of ferocity on the helm (AP and hit) since he doesn't need more def, and he can improve dodge/crit with +12 agi on cloak (as pointed out by somebody else +120 armor is useless because it's not multiplied by bear form). Then if there's money left he can get the +40 sta/+12 agi kit on legs.
Silvarana: she (?) is also uncrittable via resilience. Dodge is the main issue. It's also worth remembering that agi > crit rate, especially since agi also gives dodge. +12 agi on cloak would be a start (easy enchant) and also +6 all stats on chest (better have +6 agi and +6 str than +2 sta). The critical strike gem on chest can then be replaced by +12 sta. Then +4 all stats on bracers would help both dodge and AP (and sta). On the gloves I'd rather go with +15 agi (given the lack of dodge) or even +15 str if you need AP. It's not the place where to go for sta. Then 40 sta/12 agi on legs (expensive) and +12 sta on the boots (or +9 sta and minor run increase). The red gem on the boots is not really necessary but could stay or be switched to +12 sta (I think there's a pattern here ) and then +35 agi on staff since she's unlikely to get the Earthwarden any time soon given her rep with cenarion - although since you are already in SSC she could get the Wildfury staff. Also since she is a bit above the uncrittable threshold with resilience, it might be worth checking if the +12 def on bracers would compensate the loss of +17 defense on neck, and then the neck could be replaced by e.g. a necklace of the deep, a sudden boost of at least 28 agi and maybe more, and the loss of sta is compensated by all the gains in sta from the above. Also remember that in case somebody is missing just a bit of +def, it can be better to use Elixir of Ironskin than to gimp other stats with dubious eq swaps.
Re: dps gear, they should definitely have a completely different set - I know my cat form dps can double if I switch from tanking to dps gear. A lot of nice gear can be obtained without having to farm for drops too long. First of all they can reuse all the tanking gear with high agi and str, even if it won't necessarily be the best for the slot it will be a start. Then hopefully they kept a few of the important quest rewards to get started (e.g. Staff of Beasts) or should be able to easily farm improvements (e.g. Dreamer staff from bota or Illhoof's staff). they can buy the Everbloom Idol for 15 badges (run heroic mecha and grab Capacitus cloak on the way). It would be easier if we could see their dps gear The idea is quite simple, just stack agi and str all the way, and get enough combination of +hit/+feral skill (see druid wiki for exact numbers, if I remember correctly 79 hit rating to negate the 5% base miss and then the rest either with only hit (then 136 hit rating is necessary) or feral weapon skill.
Edit: edited for clarity and correcting a few mistakes, e.g. +12 agi on cloak (and not +dodge) or +15 agi on gloves (and not +12).
When offtank/dps occur in the same fight, what do you guys think is more important: armor or uncrittability? Currently my theory is to wear DPS accessories and then either 5/5 T4 for high base armor plus set bonus (but crittable) or 2/5 Merciless Gladiator and be uncrittable with lower armor (around 23k). Would your answer change from fight to fight?
My question is what else that's pre-vashj would be an upgrade. We are currently (5/6) SSC (1/4) TK. I am also an engineer so I have [Deathblow X11 Goggles].
The gear I use when I am taking Tidewalker/Leothress/Tidalvass are all up here.
Any suggestions for what would be a good trade for tanking gear or trash gear would be greatly appreciated.
When offtank/dps occur in the same fight, what do you guys think is more important: armor or uncrittability? Currently my theory is to wear DPS accessories and then either 5/5 T4 for high base armor plus set bonus (but crittable) or 2/5 Merciless Gladiator and be uncrittable with lower armor (around 23k). Would your answer change from fight to fight?
Depends on what you're OTing really. And on your HP/armor. If you have to OT something that hits for 2K while you're at 16K HP, there's not a real need to be uncrittable.
Meringe: Being uncrittable is more important for fights where you're tanking for a short time (karathress if you're on first add, for example) as mana isn't really an issue but burst damage is. For fights where you can expect a few healers and burst doesn't matter so much but damage over time does, stack armour. Generally I'd stick to uncrittability though.
Dogy: That looks like a very nice setup, but I'd go for 12 agi or 6agi/runspeed on boots, and 4agi/6stam in chest instead of the 12 stam. I'd also stick to using the legs over T5 for the moment unless you have T4 gloves, as the set bonus (imo) outweighs the stats from one piece of T5. If you can get an earthwarden (and afford the enchant, otherwise it's not worth it), you might be better off using that for the tanking part of fights before swapping to the S2 Maul. If you have the razor-scale battlecloak, using that with necklace of the juggernaut is probably better than the gilded+deep too. Depends on if you can lose the 5def rating or not.
My question is what else that's pre-vashj would be an upgrade. We are currently (5/6) SSC (1/4) TK. I am also an engineer so I have [Deathblow X11 Goggles].
The gear I use when I am taking Tidewalker/Leothress/Tidalvass are all up here.
Any suggestions for what would be a good trade for tanking gear or trash gear would be greatly appreciated.
Or you could tank in arena/PvP gear and have good DPS, armor, and be uncrittable.
It's something I was kicking around as an idea for my druid, though since he is no longer my main I am not going to be following through on it. I did get a bit of a start on it, and even though I went from 28k armor to 25k, my AP came up from 1200 (yes, pathetic I know) to around 1500 and I saw a remarkable increase in my TPS, rage generation, and crit rate with a very small increase in the amount of damage I was taking (IIRC it was just 1%, maybe 2% tops).
I currently do have the T4 gloves, and I use them on fights where I want maximum armor (no shaman or priest healing me).
I currently have an Earthwarden and have been using it to tank trash but I though the S2 Maul might be better. I guess the easy solution is to use the Earthwarden to tank and then switch to S2 Maul to DPS.
I have a a razor-scale battle cloak. I currently do not have a Necklace of the Juggernaught but I do have [Barbed Choker of Discipline]. Do you think this combination would be better? I could flask up for trash easily enough to get 10 more defense.
The reason I said the Juggernaut is because it has 19 agility on it, but I suppose the Choker would probably work about the same. Being short on defence is one thing, but using a flask over 35 agi/20 crit from a pot is a big difference, and you're probably better off using one of the pure-def items with the agi pot than you are using the flask with DPS items. If you really want to hit the crit cap easily with that gear set, get the PvP belt and then you can just use the DPS items for neck/cloak, or swap the Badge for Timelapse shard/def trinket if you want to do it that way. There's plenty of options.
08/16/07, 3:46 PM
Similar Threads
