what does a flask have to do with stamina aamis? The flask is coincidental.

I could have gone even higher without the Earthwarden on.

And yes kaz, If i come back, I'll probably pick up my lock. My patience is gone.

I'm just a casual observer to your discussion, but as an outsider, here's what it looks like:

You might be talking purely about how much stamina you can achieve, but what most people actually look at when you post your screenshots is your total health number. When people see your ~20k and see you talking about stam, they wonder how it is possible to achieve that much total hp with standard stam buffs.

I'm curious why people don't consider Titans a standard buff on tanks...

I'm sure they do, but since this last discussion was so focussed on stam and stam only, that's probably the source of this flap.

Go back and reread the conversation. People wanted to know who had breached 1k stamina. I posted a picture of me doing just that. This is retarded. News Flash: Flasks and pots don't add stamina. I seriously can't even understand the issue here. Are people being intentionally obtuse lately?

Elixir of Mastery adds 15 Stam, also adds just over 1% Dodge! I'm so very happy that they put in a potion that stacks with everything else, unlike their terrible Sages/Brute Force elixirs.

apparently priests were buffed back up. My priests tell me that discipline is borderline OP with the changes to PW:S.

Still not even a blue post in the druid forums.

For a bear MT, would 15 Agi or 2% threat be a more optimal enchant on gloves, post-2.0.10 changes?

I'd still go with the agility. It's 1% to dodge, and just over 0.5% crit, although it's probably worth reexamining once we see how bad the patch is or isn't.

Does anyone have the formula for how much resilience = -1crit against a lvl 73 mob?

I am hoping to get crit immune asap after hitting 70 on my druid (yup, switched back to the druid, all nerfs aside if I can cat dps and offtank I am content. Throw in the abilities like tranquility, innervate and being able to heal if absolutely needed, I am a happy bunny still). As I was saying, I want to get crit immune asap, and I recently picked up a 30resilience trinket, but I cannot find out how this adds up against level 73 targets. Anyone know the effectiveness of resilience to Defense rating against 73 mobs?


Are these formulas:
for level 70 mobs? or 73?

While we're on the subject - did anyone analyse Feral Combat skill rating and how it relates to +hit itemization? Forum search is down....

Put my spreadsheet up on google spreadsheets

http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?k...xRfklIFgCsRmag

You know I was happy just up to the part where I go through 3-4 stacks of them in a night of attempts along with 3-4 agility etc >_> At least I get full use out of them instead of partial use which is a major thing.

On a side note with those potions plus fully buffed can reach 770 agility (guess more with Imp MotW but I see that almost never now). Makes for some interesting dodge levels in DPS gear.

And on the matter of +hit at 6.5% +hit I will still see the occasional miss on bosses.

I would love a list of feral tanking potions. Ones with long durations as we cannot chug pots in our forms. I;d say 5+mins at least duration.

So what stacks with what? Order of cheapness would be nice as I wouldn't mind to constantly have some cheap buffs for trash and only really chug the big stuff for the tougher fights.


And cheers Boevis for the info above =) appreciate it.

I reached 415 defense last night, made me very happy. I still have a couple of quest rewards to get(Umberhowls collar and Verdant gloves) and with those I will (even post nerf) be sitting on some good armour/hp values with crit immunity.

There was a thread elsewhere, but probably buried.

Elixir of Major Agility (+35 Agi) is probably the easiest (1 Terrocone, 2 Felweed)
Elixir of Mastery (+15 All stats) is pretty easy (3 Terrocone, 1 Felweed)
Elixir of Major Defense (+550 Armor) is pretty difficult (3 Ancient Lichin, 1 Terrocone)
Then there's the flasks ...
+20 Sta food is easy to get, and you can even get +30 Sta food if you know a 375 Fisherman.
Rumsey Rum can give you another +15 Sta

That's really it for 'tanking' potions, Onslaught and Major Strength stack with all those listed above for more DPS.

Cheers!
I think after the consumeable change a lot of those will not stack anymore because that is a heck of a lot of pots!

*edit*
A lot of pots for a non herbalist. I guess I will be dusting off my rogue to go farm terrocone.

Everything is relative: there is no one be-and-end all set.

The idea is to mix and match gear for balance. Each encounter is slightly different and having a mixture of pieces to select from allows you to tune to it. Have a selection of gear that allows for threat generation (hit, crit, attack power), mitigation (armour, defence, resiliance), avoidance(dodge, miss) and survivability (stamina).

Some important factors about level 73 mobs you will be tanking:
- Their crits do 200% their normal damage to you. Its important to get 3/3 Survival of the Fittest + 415 Defence (or equivilent Resiliance as a placeholder) in order to have maximum chance to not be crit.
- Their crushing blows do 150% their normal damge and are not mitigated by defence or resiliance. Its important to have enough armour to mitigate the damage and stamina to be able to take multiple crushing blows in a row.

I completely disagree, I believe there is a definite 'best set'. Personal preference always weighs heavily with people, but it's rather undeniable that in every encounter* a specific set of gear will maximize your survivability. As you said, negate crit and figure out how to negate failure mode (max burst damage over 2.5 seconds) Availability is always an issue, and the multitude of various items/gems complicates things, but given the desire and availability level I could write up a list of the best set for tanking.

* - Heavy Magic fights excluded, as they alter the values of Armor, Avoidance, and Sta.

Just to clarify: I judge mitigation to be reduction in damage through armour, and avoidance to be avoiding a hit through dodge/parry/miss.

Although I agree to a point, in that pure mitigation/avoidance in percentage terms can be maximised to give you the biggest amount of damage avoided over a prolonged period of time, I disagree that the set outlined by that criteria will actually be the one I would choose to wear in every given situation, magic fights excluded. I always found the trouble healing people in fights would mostly extend from heavy periods of avoidance - getting 4 parrys/dodges/misses in a row and then 2 crushings would most likely result in a tank with very little healing incoming, and without a proper cooldown-response, or very very alert healers, a tank-death situation occuring.

Part of the problem extends from the roll-table system. If you dodge or get a miss on you, then that hit couldn't have possibly been a crushing iirc. If you increase your avoidance chance to a point where you have around 50% avoidance, you then increase the crushing likelyhood on you to a 30% chance (assuming 15% base chance from a raid boss) on the hits that hit you. Although in overall damage terms this is a good thing, as you're reducing the amount of damage incoming, reducing the amount of mana spent by healers, in sensitive fights it can be a problem imo. I'd rather take a set of gear (for the majority of fights where the boss doesn't have MS/sunder/insert shitty ability here) that gives me 20k health, 22k armour and 30% dodge buffed, than one that gives say 17k health, 40% dodge and 20k armour. Although the mitigation change works out to be around 3%, and the avoidance change works out as around 12% change (10% of a total of 107.5 because crushings are 15% @ 1.5 times), so there's a reduction of incoming damage over a sustained period of ~9%. This merely means that you spike more - the hits that do hit you are hitting for more and the hits that don't will probably end up with a small amount of overheal anyway.

If you go to the extreme situation of 75% mitigation, 0% avoidance against 0% mitigation and 85% avoidance, I know who I'd rather be healing.

Of course ... but I'm talking about the difference between 20k health, 25k armor, 30% dodge buffed and my pre-karazhan stats of 18k health, 22k armor, 50% dodge.

The sacrifices some people make for 15 more stamina or 50 more armor in caster astound me. I saw a druid in AV with over 900 sta in caster self buffed, raid buffed he'd have had 1700 stamina, he also would have had 20% dodge and only 18k armor. High HP, High Armor just translates as "Mana Sink" to healers. Those 10 seconds I'm not taking damage, they're getting 3 tics of full mana regen (~250 more mana than when casting)

The only problem with those 10 seconds is your threat. In ten seconds, I can do 1 mangle, 5 lacerates and 4 mauls for a total of 132 rage minus ~15 rage assuming a 30% crit return. I don't know about you but ever since I could spam lacerate for good threat, I'm never at a full rage bar. Do you just warn your dps when it's happening?

Simply put, threat is still not an issue for me. Of course, my TPS is such that I could probably handle tanking for a guild like Illumination where ranged do well over 1k DPS while my guild's DPS are currently at the 800-900 in ideal situations.