I thought I read earlier in the thread that the DPS enchants for helm and shoulders were usually preferred, especially when you're playing an OT/DPS role most of the time? No argument about the glove and cloak enchants, of course.

Thanks for all the information, I really appreciate the help.

If you are already past a certain point in your gear, sure. But the idea is, you need the crit-immunity if you're tanking anything in a raid scenario, that's just non-negotiable. And they are both just a little over it, and that's with the help of some gems. Tanking-wise, they would see an improvement if they were to take the enchants we suggested, because it would open up a lot more possibilities on their socketting choices, for one.

Good point -- I'm sure they can go with the DPS enchants once the rest of their gear improves.

Looking through your guild on the Armory, I don't see any other raiding ferals than those 2. I would strongly recommend having at least one of them be primarily a bear. Limiting your MTs to just warriors (or paladins, didn't look for those), will negatively impact your progression.

I guess we are all assuming that they have two sets of gear, one for tanking and one for DPS. I know my Druid does. We are evaluating their tanking gear.

Are you interested in a feral DPS gear analysis? That question would probably be better in the other thread.

That's neither here nor there - you can do the whole raid game without even having a feral in the raid, and not having one won't limit you significantly until you get to fights which are in BT which require insane DPS in some phases and good tanking (and offtanking) in other phases. We've never had a "primarily bear" feral - both of ours are offtank/dps, and then we have 2 prot warriors of which one respecced MS/bloodfrenzy for BT as it only needs one MT. Paladins as MT's are generally accepted as less good than warriors, simply because of the health defecit, but that doesn't mean you can't use them.

The other factor is that there are some fights specifically tailored to warriors, although these are generally later in the raid game (anti-fear, spell reflect, shield block required).

There are a lot of fights, and the majority of trash, which benefit from having a "hybrid" gear setup which lets you switch freely between bear/cat forms with minor penalties (the DPS set has slightly less armour and isn't crit capped; the bear set has slightly less AP/crit but is crit capped with more armour - both my sets have similar HP although the bear one has a small amount more). Having a "one-set-fits-all" mentality helps a lot in many fights, with only having to switch a couple of items for different fights. As I listed above, theres a lot of gear which just seems perfectly designed for this (with the downside of having int, but you've basically got to accept that).

I dont know if it is answered in the previous 50 pages of this threat but can someone plz define the best combination of the druids tiers for tanking, dps and offtanking. They say that 4/5 t5 is worse than 2/5 t4 for dps is it true? If the tier combination subject is answered elsewhere can somone link plz?

Scymoril: tanking stats seem adequate, he is actually 9 def rating above the uncrittable status. In total between the chest and the feet, he uses +20 def from gems. If he were to put +12 def on bracers, he could replace all these gems by +12 sta gems, which would be much better. Then a straight red +agi gem (at least +8) would be better than the crit/dodge gem he has on boots. Once that is taken care of, he can put a glyph of ferocity on the helm (AP and hit) since he doesn't need more def, and he can improve dodge/crit with +12 agi on cloak (as pointed out by somebody else +120 armor is useless because it's not multiplied by bear form). Then if there's money left he can get the +40 sta/+12 agi kit on legs.

Silvarana: she (?) is also uncrittable via resilience. Dodge is the main issue. It's also worth remembering that agi > crit rate, especially since agi also gives dodge. +12 agi on cloak would be a start (easy enchant) and also +6 all stats on chest (better have +6 agi and +6 str than +2 sta). The critical strike gem on chest can then be replaced by +12 sta. Then +4 all stats on bracers would help both dodge and AP (and sta). On the gloves I'd rather go with +15 agi (given the lack of dodge) or even +15 str if you need AP. It's not the place where to go for sta. Then 40 sta/12 agi on legs (expensive) and +12 sta on the boots (or +9 sta and minor run increase). The red gem on the boots is not really necessary but could stay or be switched to +12 sta (I think there's a pattern here ) and then +35 agi on staff since she's unlikely to get the Earthwarden any time soon given her rep with cenarion - although since you are already in SSC she could get the Wildfury staff. Also since she is a bit above the uncrittable threshold with resilience, it might be worth checking if the +12 def on bracers would compensate the loss of +17 defense on neck, and then the neck could be replaced by e.g. a necklace of the deep, a sudden boost of at least 28 agi and maybe more, and the loss of sta is compensated by all the gains in sta from the above. Also remember that in case somebody is missing just a bit of +def, it can be better to use Elixir of Ironskin than to gimp other stats with dubious eq swaps.

Re: dps gear, they should definitely have a completely different set - I know my cat form dps can double if I switch from tanking to dps gear. A lot of nice gear can be obtained without having to farm for drops too long. First of all they can reuse all the tanking gear with high agi and str, even if it won't necessarily be the best for the slot it will be a start. Then hopefully they kept a few of the important quest rewards to get started (e.g. Staff of Beasts) or should be able to easily farm improvements (e.g. Dreamer staff from bota or Illhoof's staff). they can buy the Everbloom Idol for 15 badges (run heroic mecha and grab Capacitus cloak on the way). It would be easier if we could see their dps gear The idea is quite simple, just stack agi and str all the way, and get enough combination of +hit/+feral skill (see druid wiki for exact numbers, if I remember correctly 79 hit rating to negate the 5% base miss and then the rest either with only hit (then 136 hit rating is necessary) or feral weapon skill.

Edit: edited for clarity and correcting a few mistakes, e.g. +12 agi on cloak (and not +dodge) or +15 agi on gloves (and not +12).

I hope you meant +12 agility!

When offtank/dps occur in the same fight, what do you guys think is more important: armor or uncrittability? Currently my theory is to wear DPS accessories and then either 5/5 T4 for high base armor plus set bonus (but crittable) or 2/5 Merciless Gladiator and be uncrittable with lower armor (around 23k). Would your answer change from fight to fight?

I recently started to buy in to the theory of tanking trash in SSC with primarily DPS gear. Here is what I am currently thinking of switching to:

[Stag-Helm of Malorne] DPS enchant
[Necklace of the Deep] *2x 8-agi gems
[Mantle of Malorne] *2x 8-agi gems, DPS enchant
[Gilded Thorium Cloak] *12 agi- enchant
[Breastplate of Malorne] *12 sta, *8 agi, *4 agi/4hit, +6 stats
[Veteran's Leather Bracers] *8 agi gem, +4 stats
[Gloves of Dexterous Manipulation] *2x 8 agi gems, +sta (no one with +agi on server till the patch)
[Girdle of Treachery] *2x 8 agi gems
[Greaves of Malorne] *+30 sta, +10 agi (waiting on T5 for best enchant)
[Boots of Natural Grace] *Boar's Speed
[Violet Signet of the Great Protector]
[Ring of Unyielding Force]
[Hourglass of the Unraveller]
[Badge of Tenacity]
[Merciless Gladiator's Maul] *+35 Agi

As a guild we have not seen a [Belt of Natural Power] or a [Wildfury Greatstaff]. I know both of these would be upgrades.

My question is what else that's pre-vashj would be an upgrade. We are currently (5/6) SSC (1/4) TK. I am also an engineer so I have [Deathblow X11 Goggles].

The gear I use when I am taking Tidewalker/Leothress/Tidalvass are all up here.

Any suggestions for what would be a good trade for tanking gear or trash gear would be greatly appreciated.