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Old 02/20/07, 10:12 AM   #121
Tyvi
Never, Mags. Never!
 
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Human Death Knight
 
Turalyon (EU)
Originally Posted by Boevis View Post
This puts you at 415 Defense (uncritable with SotF) and around 35% dodge unbuffed in bearform I think, and well over 20k armor, though not up to 27k.
Did you deliberately choose a Dodge heavy setup vs AC? If so, why? Is it because you can survive bursts good enough with that and wanted to go for avoidance to make healing easier? Because generally for me AC>Avoidance is nearly all situations.

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Old 02/20/07, 10:18 AM   #122
Daboran
King Hippo
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Twisting Nether (EU)
Originally Posted by Kink View Post
Does anyone have any decent profiles of level 70 blues and very nice armour/hp values and around 20% dodge?

Currently our bear tanks sit at 12karmour and 11k health. Unbuffed. This just seems SO low. Plus I am levelling my own druid now and am very tempted to make him a main. I see a lot of people posting 27k armour values and stuff but I just don't see how possible that is (not saying you are lying, I am just saying I have not seen the gear to accomplish that yet).
Very simply, if your Bear tanks can't get over 12kAC and 11kHP they aren't trying. No, it's not realistic to expect 27k from a Druid that has in all likelihood been amassing Healing gear pre-TBC but there are easily obtainable quest and BoE items that can get you well over these figures.

I am around 16kAC and 13kHP (having taken my sweet time getting to 70). I may be slightly lucky in having picked up Guise of the Devourer and Malfurion's months ago but everything else is a Blue or TBC quest reward. Heck I'm even using the Unyielding Maul (+250 armour Mace) from Dire Maul because I'm too tight to pay for the Warden staff before I get exalted with Cenarion Expedition.

Once you add in the TBC instance drops Bears should find it really easy to get a range of items to cover all eventualities.

Last edited by Daboran : 02/20/07 at 10:27 AM.

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Old 02/20/07, 10:28 AM   #123
Boevis
Bald Bull
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Lightbringer
Originally Posted by Liar View Post
Did you deliberately choose a Dodge heavy setup vs AC? If so, why? Is it because you can survive bursts good enough with that and wanted to go for avoidance to make healing easier? Because generally for me AC>Avoidance is nearly all situations.
I chose what I believe a Druid could get within a month of hitting 70 with regular play. 2 Exalteds (I shouldn't have included the exalted scryer enchant, but too late to change) 1 Revered. Nothing Heroic, Nothing Raid. I only chose 4 "low armor" items and I stand by my choice of Hat and Shoulders (Shoulders enabling an easy uncritable state, as well as high agi/sta) I could understand substituting the Jerkin from Hellfire http://www.thottbot.com/?i=55780 or the boots from Blades Edge http://www.thottbot.com/?i=57928 . Unless you consider PvP gear to be something everyone can reasonably get.

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Old 02/20/07, 11:23 AM   #124
Jini
Von Kaiser
 
Human Death Knight
 
Stormrage
Originally Posted by Boevis View Post
I chose what I believe a Druid could get within a month of hitting 70 with regular play. 2 Exalteds (I shouldn't have included the exalted scryer enchant, but too late to change) 1 Revered. Nothing Heroic, Nothing Raid. I only chose 4 "low armor" items and I stand by my choice of Hat and Shoulders (Shoulders enabling an easy uncritable state, as well as high agi/sta) I could understand substituting the Jerkin from Hellfire http://www.thottbot.com/?i=55780 or the boots from Blades Edge http://www.thottbot.com/?i=57928 . Unless you consider PvP gear to be something everyone can reasonably get.
The chest, boots and neck are the high avoidance items.

You've already called out the jerkin and supple leather boots as alternatives.

For the neck slot, the mark of the ravenguard from a sethekk halls quest is a good alternative.

edit: I missed the trinket slot. Obvious alternatives include SHotM, and the epic AV trinket.

Last edited by Jini : 02/20/07 at 12:05 PM. Reason: I missed the trinket slot

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Old 02/20/07, 12:56 PM   #125
 Polynices
What does Von Kaiser mean?
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Cenarius
Can the OP update those wonderful tables with some of the items that were missed? Like the amazing high armor Verdant Gloves from a quest chain in Shadowmoon Valley (with a stop in Arcatraz). Or a couple other items mentioned in the last 13 pages.

They're a great resource and every feral druid should have this thread bookmarked, but it could be even better.

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Old 02/21/07, 9:29 AM   #126
Zyla
Ravaging the Art World.
 
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Troll Druid
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Liar View Post
Did you deliberately choose a Dodge heavy setup vs AC? If so, why? Is it because you can survive bursts good enough with that and wanted to go for avoidance to make healing easier? Because generally for me AC>Avoidance is nearly all situations.
I'd agree with you, but for some bosses - Heroic Morass second boss, as one strong example - You can simply out dodge his stacking ms. Chrono Lord Deja was harder, in comparison. When you start reaching 45-50% dodge, it starts getting really silly.

Originally Posted by Apate View Post
Zyla, International Man of a Certain Standard.
Originally Posted by Bubbs View Post
That's right, I met my future wife through Zyla. :shudder:

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Old 02/21/07, 12:59 PM   #127
Sirloin
Don Flamenco
 
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Tauren Druid
 
<Hat>
Gorefiend
If a bear tank collected the highest agi/dodge items in the game, considering blues and karaz epics, what would his natural dodge be?

From the set I looked up, my numbers put it at about 75% raidbuffed.

For reference, the gear in this set is: Auchenei Monk's Tunic (Blue), Edgewalker Longboots (Epic-Karaz), Wastewalker Gloves (Blue), Stylin Purple Hat (Blue), Naaru Belt of Precision (Blue), Mantle of Malorne (Epic-Maulgar), Spymistress Wrists (Blue), Skulker's Greaves (Epic-Karaz), Terestrians Stranglestaff (Epic-Karaz), Moroes Watch (Epic-Karaz), Charm of Alacrity (Green), and then just considered a neck with 25 agi and two rings with 20 each. All enchanted and socketed for max agility.

I wasn't sure of base agi, so I used 50. With food, elixir, mark, GoA, and Kings, I computed 812 agility and 120 dodge rating. Also, those trinkets are good for activated +15% dodge / 15 sec (120s), and +10% dodge / 10 sec (90s). I'm not a dodge-stacker myself, but these are interesting numbers. I didn't add up what stam / AC would be in this gear.

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Old 02/21/07, 1:31 PM   #128
Monsanto
Don Flamenco
 
Tauren Druid
 
Mug'thol
Did that blow one of your item restores? I actually screwed up twice on quest rewards, without even knowing it, probably cause I was poopsocking it all night while leveling and nearly delerious for much of it. But somehow I managed not to take the supple leather boots and that nice chestpiece from Thrallmar with all the agi and armor.


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Old 02/21/07, 4:25 PM   #129
Jini
Von Kaiser
 
Human Death Knight
 
Stormrage
Originally Posted by Sirloin View Post
If a bear tank collected the highest agi/dodge items in the game, considering blues and karaz epics, what would his natural dodge be?

From the set I looked up, my numbers put it at about 75% raidbuffed.

For reference, the gear in this set is: Auchenei Monk's Tunic (Blue), Edgewalker Longboots (Epic-Karaz), Wastewalker Gloves (Blue), Stylin Purple Hat (Blue), Naaru Belt of Precision (Blue), Mantle of Malorne (Epic-Maulgar), Spymistress Wrists (Blue), Skulker's Greaves (Epic-Karaz), Terestrians Stranglestaff (Epic-Karaz), Moroes Watch (Epic-Karaz), Charm of Alacrity (Green), and then just considered a neck with 25 agi and two rings with 20 each. All enchanted and socketed for max agility.

I wasn't sure of base agi, so I used 50. With food, elixir, mark, GoA, and Kings, I computed 812 agility and 120 dodge rating. Also, those trinkets are good for activated +15% dodge / 15 sec (120s), and +10% dodge / 10 sec (90s). I'm not a dodge-stacker myself, but these are interesting numbers. I didn't add up what stam / AC would be in this gear.
I replaced the tunic with socketed Warden's Hauberk, the boots with Nimble Foot Boots, use Jagged Bark Pendant, Delicate Eternium Ring and Pathfinder's Band for rings and added the Cloak of the Craft along with all the buffs you mentioned.

I got 863 agility with 161 dodge rating, 31 defense rating giving a bonus of 56.4% dodge all the time, not counting any base dodge from stats. When the two trinkets are up I get 91.7% dodge.

However, buffed health is 13.6k, armor is 11.5k, there is only .52% crit reduction. This armor value I find to be unacceptable, if you get hit its going to hurt.

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Old 02/21/07, 7:46 PM   #130
Umph
Soda Popinski
 
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Umph
Tauren Druid
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by Jini View Post
I replaced the tunic with socketed Warden's Hauberk, the boots with Nimble Foot Boots, use Jagged Bark Pendant, Delicate Eternium Ring and Pathfinder's Band for rings and added the Cloak of the Craft along with all the buffs you mentioned.
A socketed Warden's Hauberk is surprisingly good if you pick up agility/stamina gems, definitely better than the Jerkin of the Untamed Spirit. I'm surprised I missed that whilst grinding CE exalted, thanks for pointing it out.

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Old 02/22/07, 2:44 PM   #131
Tasonir
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Blackhand
I think it's a very interesting scenario, and I will probably start mixing in some high agility items since I've already reached 27k armor. For starters I can go buy the CE honored chest and socket it with cheap +6 agility gems. However, this approach will never equal a high armor build for two reasons:

Reliability - Some day you'll take two hits close together and die. I think everyone is already aware of this, avoidance is never guarenteed.
Rage - You need to take hits to generate as much rage as possible, and thus threat. A heavily dodging bear is more likely to lose aggro; something armored bears tend to not have to worry about.

I think our best bet is to hold armor/defense steady at roughly 24k and < 1% crit, then stack on hp/dodge/+hit/+crit/+AP etc.

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Old 02/23/07, 6:26 AM   #132
Kink
King Hippo
 
Tauren Druid
 
Outland (EU)
Originally Posted by Melthar View Post
From my experiences so far, reaching crit immunity has been well worth it. At the moment I'm sitting on about 15k HP (fort, motw, no kings, no blood pact), 24k AC, 29% dodge and crit immunity. With threat having been touch and go in 5 mans recently, I was rather nervous about switching in 2 pieces of heavy clefthoof for Kara last night with their lack of offensive stats. However threat was fine and there was no problems in this area.
I would love to see your profile. Those stats are basically what I am after to the T. High AC, high HP, good dodge, crit immunity. Please please link me a profile =). Is it all easily obtained gear? And how much old world gear? I have none on my druid, except the level 45ish blues he hit 60 with =).

There is light at the end of the tunnel.
The only problem is, it's often an incoming train.

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Old 02/23/07, 7:04 PM   #133
Umph
Soda Popinski
 
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Umph
Tauren Druid
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by Kink View Post
I would love to see your profile. Those stats are basically what I am after to the T. High AC, high HP, good dodge, crit immunity. Please please link me a profile =). Is it all easily obtained gear? And how much old world gear? I have none on my druid, except the level 45ish blues he hit 60 with =).
My stats are basically the same (a few % more dodge and less health), almost all of it is quested / 5 man drops excluding the defiler's shoulders.

Here's my profile for what it's worth: http://ctprofiles.net/4084126 - pity CT Profiles hasn't incorporated gems yet, the Warden's Hauberk has 3 3agi/4sta red gems in it.

Last edited by Umph : 02/23/07 at 7:09 PM.

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Old 02/24/07, 10:17 AM   #134
Skytor
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Druid
 
Aggramar (EU)
Sorry i've been away - work now blocks this site

Here is a link to an updated table - with the new factors included

i.e. 400% armour & 25% STA not HP

Rankings dont change much , except 6 stats is now just ahead of 150hp

http://xs412.xs.to/xs412/07086/DruUpdate.PNG

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Old 02/24/07, 11:08 AM   #135
Boevis
Bald Bull
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Lightbringer
One small error, Malorne gloves have 24 Stamina, you have them listed as having 24 Agi

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