Enhance Shaman: The Collected Works of Theorycraft, Vol I - Page 11

Sebudai · 06/27/07, 11:46 PM

I'm willing to bet that -armor is a great stat for us. Will be nice to see some math for it.

• frmorrison · 06/27/07, 11:53 PM

-Armor is certainly a good stat, but I suspect its value will depend on the guild.

Do Faerie Fire and Curse of Recklessness usually get put on the boss? If not, then -armor will work out to be very useful. If so, finding the value requires more thought

.

panny · 06/28/07, 1:27 AM

Originally Posted by frmorrison

-Armor is certainly a good stat, but I suspect its value will depend on the guild.

Do Faerie Fire and Curse of Recklessness usually get put on the boss? If not, then -armor will work out to be very useful. If so, finding the value requires more thought

.

From the way armour reduction is calculated, -armour is more valuable the lower the current value is already. Unless the target has 0 armor of course.

About +hit vs. +crit/AP gearing, I'm not completely convinced of the uselessness of +hit yet. I have a Dragonstrike and either an Hourglass or a Poison Vial, which can't proc if I don't hit. The Dragonstrike proc especially, since the haste means about an extra 20% proc rate on the other trinkets. +hit also boosts WF swings, which can all proc other things too. Hit has kind of a snowball effect for me.

If an encounter is one without damage windows, I can wait till both the Dragonstrike and the Hourglass have procced before I pop trinket+Bloodlust, getting the multiplying effect for some free extra damage.

Bonzo · 06/28/07, 1:28 AM

Excellent thread but I have one question. What would provide more dps to a raid, a enhancement shaman or an elemental shaman in the corresponding groups:

Enh Shaman
DPS Warrior
Feral Druid
Rogue
Rogue

or

Elemental Shaman
Shadow Priest
Warlock
Mage
Mage

I'm still convinced that the dps and buffs a Enhancement shaman brings to a raid is greater then the elemental shaman would.

Rajni · 06/28/07, 2:19 AM

Originally Posted by Bonzo

What would provide more dps to a raid, a enhancement shaman or an elemental shaman in the corresponding groups:
<snip>

From what I gather, that the enhancement shaman would provide more, especially if the warrior was arms, as windfury, strength of earth and unleashed rage would generally (dependent of the relative gear of the two groups) be a higher dps increase than wrath of air.
If the shaman was specced for totem of wrath, it would be closer.

Edit: Ah, here's the post I was thinking of, listing the benefits of an enhancement shaman:

Enhancement shaman or some other dps class?
(which is linked in the first post of the thread)

Edit2: also see this thread:
[Shaman] Group Setup
(which discussed pretty much the same thing)

Leachim · 06/28/07, 7:13 AM

Thank you for this excellent thread, helps me a lot revising my playing style.
It might have been answered fully before, but to me it still remains uncle 2.7 speed mainhand should be used if the offhand only reaches a 2.6 speed.
I myself am currently favouring the crafted tier 3 blacksmithing mace Dragonstrike as mainhand, with the gladiator mace as offhand.

Would it be better for my DPS output to replace this mainhand with a comparable 2.6 speed weapon, the new Mercylous Gladiator Axe for example?

I know that slow offhands > fast mainhands - but when it comes to the difference between 2.7 and 2.6 this might be outweight by the higher mainhand dmg, and the stats of the weapon itself.
Ive seen contradicting posts regarding this in this thread (even from the same posters ^^) so Im hoping to get some sort of final reply on this.

Besides this ssue, i might aswell ask (if it hasnt been answered already) if, playing an orc afterall, using axes is a must for me or that the advantage that comes with it (higher axeskill) is minimal and neglectable. Looking at the available arena weapons for example: wha would be best if any: axe, fist weapon or mace?

Finaly, seeing some interesting revisions regarding the HR vs CR vs AP debate, a question regarding the ideal Enhancement spec.
Judging the posts in this thread it appears to me hitrating is a bit overrated stat for shamans, being surpassed by crit and strength. As enhancement PvE shaman, there seems to be 2 options to spec: Enhancement/Resto (+3% hit, cheaper totems) or Enhancement/Elemental (Elemental devastation, faster and better shocks, Elemental focus). Ive tried both in endgame raiding and currently favour the 3% extra hit (putting me between 16 and 19.5% hit depending on the gear i use). It smehow feels better. But judging your posts, Id say going for elemental devastation would be better afterall.
Has there been any testing regarding these 2 builds? And if so: the outcome?
Now what is better?

Hoping on your hel with these 3 issues:
- Is using a 2.7 speed mh defendable if your oh is 2.6 speed.
- Does playing an orc inclines the use of axes (but the looks! the looks!)
- Is speccing into Elemental devastation better then speccing into Nature's Grace.

Thnx!

Nite_Moogle · 06/28/07, 9:43 AM

- 2.7 MH + 2.6 offhand is A-OK
- Use axes when possible, it does make a difference
- Points in Resto provide better returns, it's not only 3% hit but also 3% spell hit which helps cut your shock resist rate as well in addition to giving you a 10 yard bonus range on your totems. The elemental points just aren't worth it.

Aeolian · 06/28/07, 5:23 PM

Finaly, seeing some interesting revisions regarding the HR vs CR vs AP debate, a question regarding the ideal Enhancement spec.
Judging the posts in this thread it appears to me hitrating is a bit overrated stat for shamans, being surpassed by crit and strength. As enhancement PvE shaman, there seems to be 2 options to spec: Enhancement/Resto (+3% hit, cheaper totems) or Enhancement/Elemental (Elemental devastation, faster and better shocks, Elemental focus). Ive tried both in endgame raiding and currently favour the 3% extra hit (putting me between 16 and 19.5% hit depending on the gear i use). It smehow feels better. But judging your posts, Id say going for elemental devastation would be better afterall.
Has there been any testing regarding these 2 builds? And if so: the outcome?
Now what is better?

I'd also add that putting those points in the hit talents would allow you to get gear with less hit on it in the long run. As someone earlier in this thread pointed out no one has found a magic cut off point for hit, generally speaking the closer you are to the cap the better your white damage dps will do, but Crit and AP out weigh Hit for your overall DPS. As for myself, I am currently aiming for 200 hit rating. Two hundred will put me at 21.72% hit with talents, 3.78% below the cap, but still quite good. Someone else may have a different number they prefer and have additional input on it though. I would probably allow this to fluctuate up and down, as long as it didn't lower my Crit Rating and Attack Power or drop below 20% hit. Again, my personal preferences.

Edit:

Although, much of what I have been reading lately would suggest that I could drop even further then this and still be okay. Right now I am one of those people that stacked +8 Hit gems in a lot of sockets which I quickly discovered was major over kill. I am in the process of re-gemming the gear I have and collecting more Crit/AP gear to replace my insanely Hit heavy gear. Like I said above I am aiming for roughly 200 +HitRating, but may end up near the 180 +HitRating area after I play around with it some more.

Ruzia · 06/28/07, 5:41 PM

Originally Posted by Nite_Moogle

- Use axes when possible, it does make a difference

Is the blacksmithing mace an exception? I've seen a lot of people using Dragonmaw as opposed to the axe equivalent. Does the proc on Dragonmaw happen enough and grant that much of a benefit to outweigh the static stats on the axe?

Vernichter · 06/28/07, 5:44 PM

Ruzia, I believe that Night_Moogle's comments (a direct response to Leachim) were taken with the context that Leachim is an orc and has the +5 axe skill racial. Otherwise, axes and maces are functionally indistinguishable. Dragonmaw is certainly a very, very good enhancement main-hand.

Nemaa · 06/28/07, 5:48 PM

Is it worth having 2.8 MH / 2.6 OH or shall I switch them, even if the 2.8 has better dps? Or shall I get 2.7/2.7 for better flurry uptime? In overall, what's the best setup for MH/OH?

(In other words which 2 weapons shall I get from these:

http://www.wowhead.com/?item=28433
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=31965
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=32236
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=28439
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=29996
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=32262
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=32944 )

Ruzia · 06/28/07, 5:56 PM

Those look like all really good choices... I think it would depend more on which of those you have access to.

Shinok · 06/28/07, 5:57 PM

Originally Posted by Sebudai

I've been sitting at 100ish hit rating for a long time, in addition to the 9% I get from talents. Hit has been wildly overblown for a while now, most likely because it is so good for rogues and warriors, and those were the people we asked for advice when enhancement became viable.

I follow the weightings outlined in threads like this and it has always worked out fine. I'll gladly post a WWS of pretty much any encounter. People with like 200+ hit rating and +8 hit gems in every socket are just making a big mistake.

Sebudai, your raw offensive stats are absolutely drool-worthy, as are your weapons. I'm very interested to see what your WWS reports look like with 'only' 100 hit rating and 1600 AP / 27.5% crit. I'll post my best performances on Magtheridon (I was on a cube) and Karathress -- I'd love to see yours to compare. I believe I'm in an ideal group make up for both fights -- LotP, Battle Shout, and BoM. I use windfury totem for both fights. My rough unbuffed stats for those fights are about 1460 AP, 24% crit, and 210 hit rating.

Magtheridon:

http://www.lossendil.com/wws/?report=jxjvxd6stpta5&m

Karathress:

http://www.lossendil.com/wws/?report=wnbi14sfwr155

Nemaa · 06/28/07, 6:13 PM

Originally Posted by Ruzia

Those look like all really good choices... I think it would depend more on which of those you have access to.

I have access to all but I wouldn't burn all my dkp for testing purposes, so I'm asking someone who can make the theorycraft

My average stats are: 1450AP 21% hit 31% crit.

Eteint · 06/28/07, 7:22 PM

After reading this thread I have gathered the materials to make a Runic Hammer for my offhand. My question is, which would be better for a mainhand with the Runic Hammer offhand. Fool's Bain or Melchazeen? I am not sure if having a faster mainhand then offhand would outweigh the nerf of having a mainhand fall below 1.5s attack speed with flurry + the improved instant attack damage from Fools bane.