This is the first time I've tried to find out more about the shaman through theorycraft and that for I find your guide very impressive.

I've always thought you need 250+hit rating for an dw-shaman to increase your max dmg, since you lose too much dmg by missing your target. After reading your guide i can only come to the solution u don't need the 250+hit and now my question is how much +hit I can replace with AP?

My guild is clearing Karazhan and Gruul and we want to start Voidreaver and Magtheridon.


Ghazkull

I hope someone starts auto banning anyone who asks "how much hit do I need" or the other "how much hit can I drop".

This thread is getting out of control, of people who fail to read any of the posts and just ask the most retarded questions, that have been answered on EVERY single page for the last 50 or so.

I can only assume this is down to the thread being linked everywhere for the masses to see, its almost no longer enjoyable to read.

All of it, and don't sign your posts.

Basically I ignore posts that don't have avatars or usernames that I recognize.

Then please,please add to the Hit-Itemization an conclusion that you can drop off all +hit items since AP,Crit,AGI ar far more better!
Because from the text itself it wasn't plausible enough to me and for that I am sorry.

From the FIRST POST:

Itemization - Hit Rating
Current theory is holding that we may not need anywhere near the hit cap like we previously thought. A good explanation of why can be found here. Effectively, because we can get a large quantity of +Hit from talents (9%), our special attacks (windfury and stormstrike) are already hit capped. All the extra +Hit rating on your gear is going toward improving white damage only, which typically comprises between 45%-50% of your total damage. When you consider the itemization costs of hit rating compared to crit rating and AP which directly impact 90% of a shaman's total damage, you can see why hit rating is given lower precedence.

I think malan should link Wowwiki's attack table for reference. Some people still think "you can miss an opportunity to crit if you don't have enough hit" or "you can miss an opportunity to proc windfury if you don't have enough hit".

Well, you CAN miss a chance to proc WHATEVER if you don't hit -- that's part of the reason HR has a value in the AEP in the first place -- but the simple fact is it doesn't matter if you "miss" every now and then if the rest of your hits are that much better/faster. Besides, with flurry/hast/etc, you're not going to be waiting very long for your next WF or crit.

Incidentally, Yo's simulator has been suggesting a higher priority for hit rating (1.5 AEP at 18% hit with 28% crit). This has only caused me to assume the simulator is flawed

Yo's simulator suggested I value crit at 1.84 the other day, which I found a little odd (19% hit, 28% crit, 1550 AP).

What I PMed the other day was that I would love if certain people could just prune all the random useless posts in this thread.

I don't think most people really embraced what the item weights mean and how to use em, and quite honestly if you can't figure it out then the members here shouldn't be in a position to help you.

But it may be helpful for Malan to just write that there is no preferred amount of hit to run with and that people have success with low and high hit and just use the static items weights or the ones from YO's calc.

Not that most people read the first post, but it may cut down on the spam a bit. I know when I just discovered this thread i read the OP and still wasn't sure whether there was a minimum hit requirement. It was only after I read most of the posts here that I realized that I just needed to trust in the AEP and all would be well.

Toots Hepcat: That's true, but I was talking about wf and crit opportunity. Since every proc has a ppm number or internal cooldown it does not really matter if you have 14% hit or 19% as you say. The problem is that some people think they miss a chance to proc wf if they have 5% lower hit (but have the minimum 9% from talents) and they miss a chance to crit if they have lower hit.

About Yo's sim: I noticed that the AEP of the armor penetration is getting higher and higher as you gain more and more of the stat. It's logical but it's controversial with the other stats, the value of which gets worse as you gain more of them. Any toughts of this "problem"?

I vote he changes it to say that Sebudai has extremely good results with no +hit that isn't on the tiered gear and anybody who disagrees has to beat him in a duel.

That might not be all that practical.

Well, it's not really a problem per se. That's exactly how the stat works. Similiar to resistances, Armor Penetration gets more valuable on a curve as you get more of it. The only thing to do to get a static value out of it is maybe taking the 80th percentile or so of attainable armor penetration against an average armored boss and using that as your static value. Otherwise, the more you have, the better it gets in comparison to other stats. Sure, there's some cloth mobs where you'll be at zero anyway, but that's rare enough to attain that it's not worth considering.

And the difference between a mob at 1% armor and a mob at 0% armor (which that last bit of armor penetration will possibly do) is probably one of the largest dps increases we can get.

Basically, you will just have to re-evaluate more often when you are looking at attaining more (or removing some) armor penetration gear, as your overall AEP will shift varying amounts depending on the other armor penetration available.

Anyone has an idea to make all the Rising Tide/Syphon junk stop? Seems like the crystal clear OP isnt enough for some people and I'm about to bleed from my eyes if I see 1 more post about it.

So anyways, I was wondering about the differences between RT and syphon.... haha just kidding.

What really gets to me are the people who are like "Thanks for a great post, it's been really helpful. One quick question, is a fast OH better than a slow one?" Or some other post like that pointing out that they are thanking us for a post they didn't even bother completely reading.

Regardless, back to the hit rating topic. We should probably incorportate something into the OP in the form of a raw number to get people to stop asking. Simply saying "We don't need to be near the hit cap" apparently isn't sufficient for them. Perhaps something along the lines of "With 9% talented, you will only need about 100-125 hit rating before it begins to lose AEP value," maybe that will satisfy them.

Thanks for a great post, it's been really helpful. One quick question, is a fast OH better than a slow one???

On a more serious note, 100 hit rating is pretty easy to acheive even when you're stacking AP and Crit and reactively avoiding hit.

On the crit subject, does it make more sense to stop stacking it after reaching theoretical near-permanent flurry? at that point stacking strength/ap seems to be a better option

Personally, I try to maintain between 25-30% unbuffed crit.

For the hit people, I started off with 200 hit rating from gear or something stupid. Then I dropped *all* my hitgems. I did about 200 more dps :P.

The massive influx of stupid questions comes from some jerk posting this link in the shaman forums, which as we know is a rotting cesspool of repeated questions and uninformed instant-gratification types.

WoW Forums -> Enhance Shaman Theorycraft - [ ElitistJerks ]

Worse yet, they're trying to get this stickied. Expect the stupid questions to continue. Maybe we need a new thread for further 'crafting.

OK so i read the windfury section and im still a bit confused about whether I should use a fast OH or just have the OH faster than the MH or would it even be benificial to have both weapons the same speed. I am extremely new to this whole melee dps, cause I have played a resto druid since I started wow. so any tips are well accepted.
-Thanks-

Maniq edit: Greetings everyone from the WoW forums, it is good to see you! Please don't behave like this poster.

-Thanks-

LOL great follow up to Azaranth's post. You sure you read the part on WF?

"The cooldown on Windfury Weapon means that an OH that is faster than the MH is extremely detrimental to shaman DPS. "

Read the entire OP, the answers to your questions are in there. Additionally, you might want to read the forum rules as well.

You are correct - there is only dps input. Will make it min-max (will be surprised if this will change results). Regarding same results for RT/Syphon Syphon/RT - I feel that slower MH is better but sim is independent from my feeling (that is why I wrote it - to test feelings). Played with 2.6 and 2.8 speeds - sometimes it favors 2.8 into MH, sometimes into OH depending on other input information and run time, DPS of these weapons is the same and total dps difference is 1 DPS anyway so sim's opinion is that both options are identical, not like when comparing 2.6 and 1.5 speeds.