I got a beginner's question.
I know shocks dont reset your swing timer, but a friend of mine recently told me, that if you shock when your swingtimer is ready, you just shock, and the autohit doesnt hit and is lost.
I tried to reproduce this by shocking exactly when i would be hitting, but the attacks hits always, just the swing animation often got lost.
So, is my friend wrong? And please help me to disprove him, because he insists on his opinion.
Thanks for your reply
I think you are correct in saying that only the animation gets lost. It is very easy to prove to your friend just take a screen shot of your combat log with timestamps showing that your swing and shock damage happen at the same time
For DW it's something like 97%+ in any raid buffed scenario so it's pretty irrelevant.
For 2H I would think it would be something like:
% Up = 1 - (1-Crit Rating)^(10/Weapon Speed)
So for WS 3.8 and CR 30%
% Up = 1 - (1 - .3)^(10/3.8) = 1 - .7^2.63 = 1 - .39 = 61%
You know, I just realized this is wrong since I didn't consider Flurry in the Weapon Speed term -- and this is why closed-form models are so hard to create for Shamans. I'll post it anyways as a starting point.
Ring enchants, was wondering what is best for dps. I see some enhancement shamans with 12 spell damage to rings, with 2.3 coming out and upping our spell damage, I have a feeling that isn't the best. 2 damage to rings seems good, but for some reason I think having an altogether 8str, 8agi, 8stam, etc would just be overall better for dps in pve. Just was wondering your thoughts.
Ring enchants, was wondering what is best for dps. I see some enhancement shamans with 12 spell damage to rings, with 2.3 coming out and upping our spell damage, I have a feeling that isn't the best. 2 damage to rings seems good, but for some reason I think having an altogether 8str, 8agi, 8stam, etc would just be overall better for dps in pve. Just was wondering your thoughts.
Alright now I know that this has been beat into the ground and WF>GoA for warriors and non dagger rogues (am yet to see anything convincing saying WF>GoA for dagger rogues post nerf), but I was flipping through WWS reports of Lurker and this is what I found
Now that first attempt was our first time to down Lurker which is why I think its so much lower than the other 2, but in that last attempt he even had a Bloodmoon as opposed to the Lunar Cresent version for the first 2 kills. I would have expected his DPS to be much higher with WF over GoA. Sadly the rogues didn't take off their poisons even though I told them I wanted to test out WF to see the dps differences so I can't compare their dps of GoA vs WF, but Conobum (our best dagger rogue) did lose about 50dps by not having GoA.
And the reason I normally have GoA down is because our group makeup is normally a feral druid, the war (he's a 33/28 2h slam spec), 2 dagger rogues, and me. Has anyone else seen things like this or have WWS reports of a war using GoA and then using WF on the same boss to compare the difference?
Couple random WWS report dont proof anything but bad fluke. In second try he did more slams(42) and less autos(53) than third try slams(37), auto+wf(63). Some how he have lots of misses at last try 7-10% vs 3% misses at second.
Makes perfect sense to me that you're not seeing the gains you'd think you would. He's an Arms warrior and they took a heavy hit from the totem change, and most importantly he didn't use any "On next hit" attacks (Heroic Strike) and used Slam instead. Slam will not proc WF, and neither will Mortal Strike. So basically you put WF down and he got his procs only from his auto attacks.
Summary - your warrior needs to learn to use Windfury better.
One thing we have still not addressed is the Stormstrike cycling. We need some modeling and/or testing to determine if the 'use it when its lit' or 'use it only when a WF cooldown has ended' is the best methodology. We'll need to know that the supposedly increased windfury procs are going to offset the 5% (or more) loss of Stormstrike damage by not using it every 10 sec.
Edit - to clarify, we've had many people talk about using the "wait till I'm off WF CD" method, but nobody has provide any sort of modeling or testing numbers to actually back it up. All we have so far is anecdotal stories.
Has anyone (Yo! perhaps) built this into their modeling programs? I have tried to search through the thread and could not find an answer.
It would be interesting to have a switch to turn this on and off within the model.
He's planning to do so, its a grayed out option on one of the panes. Just not implemented yet.
Simulator stuff is great, but we really need to grab the "why" of it so that I can present it in the article. Telling someone 'its better because the sim says so' will still generate a lot of responses of "well I do it this way, and its better."
Makes perfect sense to me that you're not seeing the gains you'd think you would. He's an Arms warrior and they took a heavy hit from the totem change, and most importantly he didn't use any "On next hit" attacks (Heroic Strike) and used Slam instead. Slam will not proc WF, and neither will Mortal Strike. So basically you put WF down and he got his procs only from his auto attacks.
Summary - your warrior needs to learn to use Windfury better.
Correct me if I'm wrong but Heroic Strike consumes your auto-attack? So the number of chances to proc windfury stays the same.
Also, many warriors don't use heroic strike because it has a strong, positive threat modifier on it. So if he's threat capped (which I can't imagine he is with that dps number) then it would make sense for him not to be using it.
It's an interesting conversation and probably edges into the Arms warrior discussion thread. Prior to the WF Nerf Slam was without a doubt the best use of rage and effective DPS an arms warrior could do. If timed properly (just like a hunter rotation because of swing time resets) it far outshone using heroic strikes.
It would be interesting to see if there is any appreciable difference now with the WF nerf when working in HS. My thinking would be that Slam would still win out and the rotation will probably look like:
Slam, Auto, MS, Auto, Slam
As for the logs up top. You will notice differences in the set-ups that would tell an incomplete story. If you look at the parse where the warrior had WF you will see that he Deathwished just once vs 2 in the second parse and 3 in the third parse.
Extra attack + more rage (for more damage) will always beat a couple percent more crit and sharpening stones IMO all else being equal.
It's an interesting conversation and probably edges into the Arms warrior discussion thread. Prior to the WF Nerf Slam was without a doubt the best use of rage and effective DPS an arms warrior could do. If timed properly (just like a hunter rotation because of swing time resets) it far outshone using heroic strikes.
It would be interesting to see if there is any appreciable difference now with the WF nerf when working in HS. My thinking would be that Slam would still win out and the rotation will probably look like:
Slam, Auto, MS, Auto, Slam
As for the logs up top. You will notice differences in the set-ups that would tell an incomplete story. If you look at the parse where the warrior had WF you will see that he Deathwished just once vs 2 in the second parse and 3 in the third parse.
Extra attack + more rage (for more damage) will always beat a couple percent more crit and sharpening stones IMO all else being equal.
That is about the rotation that is used only with WW worked in when MS is on CD and I think an extra reg attack when both MS and WW are on CD (happens every third rotation). Also he went with this spec for the extra 4% physical damage talent which helps all phyiscal damage dealers
Slam is still superior by quite a bit if it's used correctly, and it is considerably less threat, and doesn't take away the rage generated by the white hit.
[Ashtongue Talisman of Vision] Update - Theory on why this happens! This appears to be either bugged or have a bad tooltip, its actually having nearly an 89% proc rate, which would make the benefit closer to +245 AP over time, making it a clear winner for your trinket slot.
Since stormstrike hits with both weapons, this will probably casue it to proc almost every time you use stormstrike assuming the following: It probably counts each weapon's hit as a chance to proc the trinket (a stormstrike going off for each of the weapon's swings).
10/01/07, 8:45 AM
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