I don't think your value for Stormstrike mana cost is correct. Is 8% of our base mana really 560 mana? I know I'm always able to stormstrike before I am able to drop another totem, if I've gone dry to that point.

^, 221 with mental quickness for SS. 234? without.

You are absolutely correct. I'm not used to considering +int on gear, which I should have. He has +156 int, which is 3700 mana. Stormstrike should only cost (7000 - 3700) * 0.08 = 264! That's 248 mana after Mental Quickness.

That takes the SS mana / 2min to 2980 mana, and the overall mana per 2 min to 8235 before using any shocks, 14073 using one every 10 sec.

Thanks much for the error catch.

In argument for downranking WF Totem: The benefit gained from the extra hit is far greater than the additional attack power on that extra hit. If the downranking lets you sustain the twisting longer, or get more shocks in, I think that the downranked totem would come out on top. I don't have the math to back that up, but the AP bonus gained remains constant, and as gear scales, the important thing becomes the extra hit.

I swear my stormstrike is in the 200s for mana consumption.

That drops your two minute values to 14k-ish mana spent.

On trash, I spend a lot of time running, chasing ghouls, chasing dogs, standing in damn ice from shoulder-winking orcs as they saunter off, so that saves some mana.

For bosses (kaz'rogal not included, and i've not faced anyone past teron/gurtogg yet), I find that due to random heals, silences, aoe and so on, that I rarely get to fully utilize stormstrike and earth shock. I never get to cast flame shock on a boss.

So while I agree that your cycle sounds incredibly harsh for two minutes. It's not really something I get to experience in full force for 2 minutes at a time. There is always some time spent running for me at least.
On Teron and Akama, I do have to chug supermana potions as soon as cooldown is up, since I do in fact just stand in place for the most part. On most other bosses, I drink supermana every so often. In a normal night of 4.5 hours raiding, I drink between 4 and 10.

That said, I'm one of those drop max WF, GoA, SS.... randomly throw in an ES. And I don't have mana problems with my lackluster gear.

Once 2.3 hits and I start forcing ES full time, maybe i'll remember your clever trick of less than max WF totem. I look forward to being mana limited.

I've been gradually starting to twist more on certain fights where there's not a lot of movement, but typically I will do it until I am about 30% mana, and then will stop twisting and jsut keep up WF. And only ss/shocking from there until I have my mana back.

Of course, if I really need to start cranking it out, I could start chugging mana pots like other caster classes. I think most enhancement shamans now are sliding in to the comfortable zone of not having to use super pots much at all, or only in emergencies (after a res/mana drain). I know I can usually get by with just the cheap combat pots for the most part, although I have supers as well jsut in case.


Also, max rank talented windfury totem is 457 (502 with UR?) more AP then untalented rank 1 Windfury totem. Which isn't exactly a difference to ignore over the duration of a fight.

Hey, thanks a bunch rava. I don't usually do much with spell casting and mana. Obviously it shows :-\ I appreciate the explanation.

here are a couple wws on Anetheron both of these are with out our ret pally in raid so JoW wasn't up I think a lot of the mana stuff depends on your buffed ap with UR up. I always save my trinket for when i pop sr as most do I am sure. I am usually around 3.2-3.4k ap when SR is up. On the second parse I actually used flame shock more then earth shock, I think I was on the wrong bar and wasnt useing my shock macro. I also dont use the one button for twisting ss and shocks since depending on threat i may switch from twisting wf/goa to wf/ta mid fight so i have a seperate macro for each of those and then use /castsequence reset=12 Flame Shock, Earth Shock for shocks and don't have ss macro'd to anything.

Anetheron
Loading...
Shamshokk - WWS

High Warlord Naj'entus
Shamshokk - WWS

Here is a wws for Gorefiend kill after posting the previous ones there are some down times in those due to being slept on Anetheron and not needing to drop totems or shock during Naj shield. Gorefiend and Akama are the only 2 fights I can think of atm that we have completed (Hyjal cleared working on council) that you can stand there and dps 100% of the time as long as you dont get the debuff on gorefiend and well akama is less then a min if you have a mana issue there you need to reroll. All the other fights seem to have downtime in them or you are in resist gear


Shamshokk - WWS

Yeah that WWS parse of Gorefiend is a real good example of just how much JoW shines. It seems that on most fights where we need it our paladins remember to keep JoL up but never JoW.

I had an encounter related question here, how do other Shamans experience Kaz'Rogal? I hate him with a passion and I just don't seem to be able to find a way to do better DPS on him. One time I'll go OOM, the other time I'll be spammed with Cripples.

Do others use full Shadow Res on him or? Does it help to resist Cripple? And does Living Action Potion maybe remove Cripple?

I've tried both approaches and I really am not too sure what the best one is. As far as Marks go, on the first one I use a mana pot, second one I get I use SR... And hopefully by the time I'll need it my SMP cd will be gone, shortly followed by a SR. That' doesnt always happen, though :p. Sometimes I just have to back away and stand there exploding, which obviously doesn't help my DPS...

Any tips or experiences?

Some parses:

Khaelyn - WWS
I went OOM on this one, didn't resist a lot of Marks.. That was with ~200 SR.

Khaelyn - WWS
Didn't go OOM, wore almost full SR. Resisted all but one Mark.

I just feel that I can do more DPS on a fight like that, that's why I'm trying to find out some tricks perhaps.

I stopped using any SR on that fight once our paladins started using JoW. Make sure you refresh Water Shield, because he activates it quite often. Your fate is sort of in the hands of the rest of the raid on this encounter. The best way to not run out of mana is to kill him really fast. =P

Do you have any WWS from your kills ? Cause I don't think we take extraordinarily long to kill it, but I still go OOM :P.

The water shield tip was nice btw, can't believe I didn't think of that... And I'm guessing it will only get better next patch :P.

Encouraging your feral druids to give you their innervates helps on that fight, too, if you're getting unlucky with marks!

Yah I seem to recall Stigmata getting 2 innervates on a fight and not knowing that he had.

Illundai you don't keep water shield up all the time anyways? It triggers constantly, almost every AoE effect (even ones that don't do damage) proc it.

I use only my BT neck but my experience is identical otherwise. I usually don't bother twisting, but I do kick up whatever dps cycle is appropriate if I'm safe on mana. Going to try it without any SR at all this week.

Most recent parse using only BT neck for SR. Shabadu - WWS

For reasons I'm not aware of, we don't bother with the Taurens. Bit silly I guess, but I doubt we'll be changing strategies at this point.

And I do try to keep up Water Shield, but often I don't really have it 100% up... More like 50% of the time. I only recently switched to Enhancement so I'm still getting used to it =/

Thanks so much for the posts, as they help me figure out what's different between my playing and other people's.

First off, I was in the tank group, so no battleshout for me. That of course affects my SR returns.

The other thing is the twisting uptime. What I mean is - for every 10 seconds of combat, in an ideal situation, there should be one WF and one GoA totem. Here's a parse from last night of me on Morogrim:

Anga - WWS
(and yes, if you look at the other stuff, we had an abysmal time with vashj for some reason last night, pls ignore :p I'm using the anonymous parse to protect the innocent ).

The fight lasted 6min and 58 seconds = 418 seconds, so that would require 42 totem twists. You can see from the parse I had 100% uptime with 43 twists.

I'll thank my shamelessly plugged addon for making this possible I also had 3 fire nova totems in addition to a few flame shocks and the usual fire elemental and heroism mana soaks.

In the parses listed, you had:

Shamshokk - WWS
19 twists out of 262 seconds = 73% uptime

Shamshokk - WWS
22 twists out of 272 seconds = 81% uptime

Shamshokk - WWS
13 twists out of 260 seconds = 50% uptime

I'm not saying this is necessarily bad (I've never even done those fights, so I don't know what's appropriate), just that one of the reasons some people might not experience the same mana starvation I was having. You spent a higher % of your mana on more shocking (again, not saying it's wrong, just pointing out a difference), whereas I spent mine on twisting, and qq'ing about not having battle shout!

----------------------

Edit, for fun:
Anga - WWS
That's all the trash packs for the night.
255 twists out of 2580 seconds = 98.8% uptime.
I'm a twisting fiend. But, if I want to go on raids, I have to service the tank group, and with a druid and warrior tank, there's really no alternative but to twist to keep them both happy.

Yea I looked back to try to find a tidewalker fight been a while since we were in SSC the only one I could find isone from before i started twisting but you can see the power of having our ret pally in raid and being in the melee group in the amount of mana i get throughout an 8 min fight to allow me to twist and shock with

Shamshokk - WWS

I was pretty bad about it too, had a friend make a script for me that I use with a water shield macro:

/cast water shield
/run local f = CreateFrame"Frame" f:RegisterEvent"CHAT_MSG_SPELL_AURA_GONE_SELF" f:SetScript("OnEvent", function(_,_,m) if m:match("Water Shield") then UIErrorsFrame:AddMessage("RECAST WATERSHIELD") end end)

It displays in the mid top of the screen and has been quite some help with all of the garbage I have to pay attention to in a raid.

In particular, our guild has the tank standing in the middle who then gets MD'd to. Over the next one to two minutes he drags Kaz'rogal up to the taurens warriors, then across to Thrall. I'd say that between warstomps and cripples, melee lose a fair amount of damage during this time, but maybe this is made up for by getting the tauren warriors and Thrall involved.

I just used DIsquette's mod to twist on VR and I have no idea how you guys do this on a mobile fight.