It does take some practice. In particular, knowing when to just keep windfury down instead of twist and staying with your melee (which you should be doing anyway!) helps a lot.
I just used DIsquette's mod to twist on VR and I have no idea how you guys do this on a mobile fight.
Mobile fights are the one's I value it most on since I don't have to worry about the totems being where they should be. If I'm constantly dropping them they'll always be there.
I did it for the first time tonight, worked out well, started getting the hang of it at least. I only got to test it out on Al'ar though, had some other people that wanted gear further into the instance. I'll be doing it more tomorrow during Hyjal, we'llsee how it goes. The hard part for me is trying to keep track of my other totems.
In particular, our guild has the tank standing in the middle who then gets MD'd to. Over the next one to two minutes he drags Kaz'rogal up to the taurens warriors, then across to Thrall. I'd say that between warstomps and cripples, melee lose a fair amount of damage during this time, but maybe this is made up for by getting the tauren warriors and Thrall involved.
We just have our tank stand by the tauren and MD Kaz over to him. We don't drag him around at all.
One thing I've been trying lately is using Haste Potions instead of Mana Potions, which seems to have boosted my DPS by quite a bit. But when I try to calculate the damage given by a full mana potion's worth of mana into Shock damage, it seemed that it's better than a Haste Potion, even with the 17% spell resist rate on bosses. And this is with 0 spellpower.
Here's my reasoning and maths: We assume that Totem Twisting is superior DPS to Shocking (Yo!'s sim agrees with this even after patch 2.3). Given that our mana costs without Shocking are negliable, we can infer that all extra mana gained is put into Shocks.
Shock DPM = [ Average Damage * Spell Crit * (1 - Spell Resist) ] / Cost
ES DPM = (675 * 1.05 * (1 - 0.14)) / 535 = 1.13929907
FS DPM = (((377 * 1.05) + 420) * (1 - 0.14)) / 535 = 1.31145981
(I assume Nature's Guidance and that the DoT portion of Flame Shock has resist rates like direct damage spells).
A Haste Potion gives you 25% more white swings for 15 seconds, so:
Haste Potion damage = White DPS * 15 * .25
Since the best way to use Haste Potions would be to pop them during a Trinket/Drums/Bloodlust, the White DPS number will be more vague. What I did was run Yo!'s Sim with my stats as I expected them during Trinket/Drums and use the generated auto attack DPS number. It seems like you need something like 950 auto attack dps before a Haste Potion will outweigh even a Super Mana potion, just using Earth Shock with Stormstrike. This seems a bit contrary to what I thought happened to my dps when I switched to Haste Pots, but I can't see any holes in my reasoning here. Can anyone else?
Well, assuming you have a good SR rotation and JoW in effect, then Haste Potions should be better, because you shouldn't NEED the mana from Super Mana Pots...
I'd say that your biggest challenge would be using the consumables properly between SRs and actually managing your cooldowns correctly to get your theoretical values. It'd be a fairly tight cycle and a lot of GCDs to manage. Also consider that using a haste potion in conjunction with SR can draw in a considerable amount of mana on its own -- a haste potion is 12.5% more SR procs.
Last edited by Nite_Moogle : 10/10/07 at 2:27 AM.
Originally Posted by CheshireCat
Eh, my nostalgia goggles aren't as good as they used to be.
Mana is just not an issue normally, even when you totem twist. I carry a couple stacks of Super Mana Potions on me for those rare situations in which I can use more mana, but normally I just use Haste Potions.
I was pretty bad about it too, had a friend make a script for me that I use with a water shield macro:
/cast water shield
/run local f = CreateFrame"Frame" f:RegisterEvent"CHAT_MSG_SPELL_AURA_GONE_SELF" f:SetScript("OnEvent", function(_,_,m) if m:match("Water Shield") then UIErrorsFrame:AddMessage("RECAST WATERSHIELD") end end)
It displays in the mid top of the screen and has been quite some help with all of the garbage I have to pay attention to in a raid.
I use Parrot as my SCT mod and its really easy to configure notifications. One of the things that I have done is that I created my own scrolling frame, and then in the "Triggers" section you can have it yell at you when you lose a buff. I have mine set to notify me when my Watershield runs out and when I get my Invigorate proc from T5.
You can also set it up with an Audio Que so that you know what you have gained or lost, and since setting up this feature in the addon I have regen'd quite a bit more mana from WS, and many times knew I had an Invigorate up for the heal if I was to get low suddenly.
Its a nifty little feature that the mod allows, but its one of the bottom menu's that may go un-noticed.
My apologies, my browser crashed and ate my initial introduction about mana usage which I forgot to rewrite. Anyway, at my stage of gear, mana is definitely still an issue. I've been over this before, but the problem isn't with the amount of mana recovered from SR, it's that the size is such that the mana pool can be completely drained in between SR cooldowns. My standard rotation is SS->WF(rank 2)->GoA->Shock (sometimes I can fit in two shocks while waiting for WF weapon cooldown) and I definitely run dry before SR is up again. Hell, a shock every 10 seconds is 6000 mana in two minutes.
Admittedly, this is with minimal JoW uptime, but I don't think everyone can afford to rely on a good Paladin to keep JoW up every encounter anyway.
Originally Posted by Nite_Moogle
I'd say that your biggest challenge would be using the consumables properly between SRs and actually managing your cooldowns correctly to get your theoretical values. It'd be a fairly tight cycle and a lot of GCDs to manage. Also consider that using a haste potion in conjunction with SR can draw in a considerable amount of mana on its own -- a haste potion is 12.5% more SR procs.
Yes, I forgot to include mana gain from increased SR procs, thanks. I gather the 12.5% value is estimated as half of the swings made during SR are white auto-attacks?
@panny: I noticed you don't have the last point in mental quickness and any points in totemic focus. Without these, a totem twisting & shocking rotation is pretty much impossible (check out disquette's spreadsheet a few pages back). I'd suggest dropping imp lightning sheild, imp GW, and ancestral healing for the mana reduction talents. With a spell crit rate that low, ancestral healing is a waste of points anyways.
PS. Make sure you have JoW/BoW if you have the pallies for it. It makes mana management much easier.
@panny: I noticed you don't have the last point in mental quickness and any points in totemic focus. Without these, a totem twisting & shocking rotation is pretty much possible (check out disquette's spreadsheet a few pages back). I'd suggest dropping imp lightning sheild, imp GW, and ancestral healing for the mana reduction talents. With a spell crit rate that low, ancestral healing is a waste of points anyways.
PS. Make sure you have JoW/BoW if you have the pallies for it. It makes mana management much easier.
I don't think even with those talents, maintaining an SS->WF->GoA->Shock rotation is close to impossible without JoW.
Shock: ~500 Mana
WF Totem: 140 Mana
GoA: 310 Mana
Shocks get 6% off, Totems get 25% (or is it 31%?), which is still 780 mana every 10 seconds not counting Stormstrike cost. And I'd love to get a Paladin to keep JoW up, but since we've recently gone from 3-4 Paladins to 0-1, I'm loathe to push them too hard to do something they really don't want to do.
As for spec, I like Ghost Wolf and Lightning Shield for BGs and casual PvP so I won't be dropping them. You are right about Ancestral Healing though, I forgot that without Imp. HW, I wouldn't be healing 5 mans anyone anyway.
I use Parrot as my SCT mod and its really easy to configure notifications. One of the things that I have done is that I created my own scrolling frame, and then in the "Triggers" section you can have it yell at you when you lose a buff. I have mine set to notify me when my Watershield runs out and when I get my Invigorate proc from T5.
You can also set it up with an Audio Que so that you know what you have gained or lost, and since setting up this feature in the addon I have regen'd quite a bit more mana from WS, and many times knew I had an Invigorate up for the heal if I was to get low suddenly.
Its a nifty little feature that the mod allows, but its one of the bottom menu's that may go un-noticed.
I have been looking for a mod that will more or less tell me "Hey you got invigorate".. cause 7/10 times it ticks away un-noticed. Gonna check out parrot and see how it pans out. Thanks
I have been looking for a mod that will more or less tell me "Hey you got invigorate".. cause 7/10 times it ticks away un-noticed. Gonna check out parrot and see how it pans out. Thanks
Enhancer also has this function, though if you are looking for a mod that JUST does this Enhancer isn't what you want, because it does a ton of other stuff too.
Personaly I use Power auras for visual indication of buffs and debuffs.
You can set it to check if you have or do not have buffs while in combat.
oofcourse if you dont want flashy effects on your screen this one isnt for you.
I have been looking for a mod that will more or less tell me "Hey you got invigorate".. cause 7/10 times it ticks away un-noticed. Gonna check out parrot and see how it pans out. Thanks
Enhancer -Ace2- (Totem Timers, configurable AEP, Enhancement Itemization Points, GemPicker and more) RaidSpy -Ace2- (Prints out the checks done by raid officers in chatframe)
Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. - Benjamin Franklin
Avion is a huge pain in the ass to set up right now. I don't know what the the author was thinking - who the hell wants to navigate through dewdrop menus to set up animations for textures? What happened to the easy to use interface of PowerAuras? I'd stick with PowerAuras until he gets Avion figured out.
I really hope they tweak T6 with 2.3. If they would exchange all the mp5 und some of the int with agility, four pieces of the set including the set bonus could challenge the leather setups.
Yes, I forgot to include mana gain from increased SR procs, thanks. I gather the 12.5% value is estimated as half of the swings made during SR are white auto-attacks?
25% more swings over half the duration of SR.
Originally Posted by CheshireCat
Eh, my nostalgia goggles aren't as good as they used to be.
Disq - I like your mod - I have started using it recently, but I can't seem to figure out an automated or easy method of twisting. I am pretty sure I could use a cast sequence macro, but I don't know the best way to set it up. Can anyone give me some insight on how they have their keybindings and macros setup to make twisting effortless? Thank you.
Alright, here is a little something I discovered a while back, and I thought i might share it with you today. Pick up a ravager, that axe off of Herod in SM Arm. Put rockbiter on it. Next time there is an AOE pull, whip that thing out and hope to hell it procs. If it procs early enough, it can be a beautiful thing. Just make sure to click off your water/lightning shield first. For some reason that breaks the BLADESTORM!!! (Yelling blades of light is kinda lame, espeically as a horde character)
My way of totem twisting is a bit different.
it goes roughly like this.
0,00 WF
1,50 SS
3,00 ES
5,00 GOA
9,00 FS
11,50 ss
15,00 WF
18,00 ES
20,00 GOA
21,50 SS
23,00 FS
30,00 WF
its rough estimation of how it actually plays. A lot of it is done with addon timers and warning. Bascily i let WF tick for 5 seconds without goa and goa on first refresh of totem buff.
I often drop earthshock out of this cycles as I always raid with ele shaman.
100% WF uptime ~65% Goa uptime. Some shocks mixed into it. Also leaves some free room for decusring refreshing other totems etc. Works good for me and my group. Np sustaining it between SRs
10/09/07, 10:02 PM
In particular, knowing when to just keep windfury down instead of twist and staying with your melee (which you should be doing anyway!) helps a lot.
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